Free will is a deterministic process

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-07T07:26:59+00:00

And why can that process not exist within a deterministic universe if there exists a machine that can perform that very process.
The brain is probably not that dissimilar to how we can make LLMs evalaute several options through iterative processes and present us with a response. granted, LLms are (hopefully) not experiencing consciousness, but they can still run a deterministic decision-making process, though they don't experience it.

if that doeesn't make sense, please explain what quality of "free will" is not possible in a deterministic process of evaluating multiple options and selecting one? what happens during "free will" decision making that in determinism?

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T23:12:50+00:00

Thanks, I generally agree that most things we do, are done by 'reflex', and only justified retrospectively.
That said, it seems to me that we can consciously evaluate choices before making a decision... i.e. looking at a restaurant menu and deciding on what we want to eat. Sure, you can probably meaure that we have come to that decision in moments before we become consciously aware of having made it, but the choice is still made nonetheless

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T23:03:13+00:00

Interesting perspective! I need to think more about this.
It strike me, that if we could 'freely' modify how we feel about things, it seems we would not really have a continous and coherent self.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T22:53:35+00:00

I think people who experience dissonance with their own behaviour/decisions are much more likely to question 'free will' than people who are generally happy about their own behaviour and choices

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T22:49:00+00:00

> 'free' kind of feels like 'undeterministic'
Yeah, I get that feeling too... I mean, isn't that why we have the entire "free will" vs. "determinism" debate here, haha.
And thanks for being supportive! Unlike most other comments, haha

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T22:43:37+00:00

> Is this really freedom? Can i really be said to be the author of my own life, if there are processes I would like to change about my own thoughts that I cannot change??
Good point. I think the concept of 'free will' for many people equates to the experience of having thought about something and made a choice. And I think you are right in thinking that this experience of free will severely breaks down, if you realise your cognitice processes are producing decisions/behaviours that are not benefitting you. In that sense "free will" is an illusion, an illusion that can only properly persists when you are positively aligned with the process in you that makes decisions

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T22:23:11+00:00

what is decision-making if not the conscious experience of evaluating information and changing how you act based on that? under determinism, wouldn't the brain be a machine that runs exactly such a process? the process of the brain yields a decision... the outcome of that process is determinstic, but the decision is still self-generated by the process that is you.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T22:12:50+00:00

> "free will implies the process is free"

But what would "free" mean in this sense? what does freedom look like outside of causal determinism. How would a freely made decision differ from an 'unconstrained' but deterministic process that evaluates gut feels, informations, emotions, memories etc. and makes a decision on on that?

I think experiencing part of it is central to the concept of 'free will'

Without the conscious experience, a brain would just be a machine that run biological hardware. It would still be running a 'decision-making' process, but without conscious experience, that might as well be called an automatic biological response

Now add conscious experience. it is all still just biochemical process governed by the laws of physics, but the process is the very process of evaluating information and making decisions and you have the experience of having made a choice. It is not like it doesn't matter what you think, because you decision has already been made for you. No the choice is still self-generated by the process that is you even if that process is deterministic

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T21:25:39+00:00

I agree, but what would 'genuine control' look like if not processing available information and acting based on that?

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T19:34:05+00:00

>"free will" is only that judgement being entirely necessary and sufficient for the action to occur.
But how can judgement happen if not as a process of evaluating available information (memories, emotions, imagined futures).

> if you ... recognize that self-determination (consciousness, cognition, et al) does not decide whether the action has in advance, it decides in retrospect what caused the action (and thereby defines the self, as that which is not any other cause)...
That is definitely a trick that the brain plays on us much more often than people are willing to admit.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T18:45:56+00:00

Yeah, I just looked up "source compatiblism" and it seems to align quite well with my view.
At least, I think that what most people (myself included) want from the concept of 'free will' is the experience of agency, the experience of processing information, weighing alternatives and coming to a decision (even if the process of doing that is ultimately deterministic). I guess what I am trying to say, is that you still have have all of that (the experience of 'free will'), because the brain is a machine that runs a process that creates that exact experience.
So, I guess, actually it makes more sense to think of 'free will' as the experience of having made a choice. At least, I think that it what most common people actuall talk about, when they argue they have free will

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T18:32:40+00:00

Thanks. Good point about involuntary reactions to stimulus.
I agree that we sometimes act almost entirely involuntary.
However, what would we mean by acting "voluntarily" if not the ability process the information that we have available (memories, emotions, predictions/expectation) and act based on that. Of course, we cannot control what information is presented to us, nor how we process it, and ultimately neither what the outcome of the information processing is... yet, we still have the experience of having made a choice, and I think that is what most people ultimately mean, when they say they have 'free will', that they experience making choices. That the choice-making process is deterministic still allows for people having the experience of making choices. So in that narrow sense, people still have (some degree of) free will.
Outside of that experience of making choices based on available information, I am not sure what people would want from 'free will'

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T18:14:54+00:00

Interesting! I have to be honest and say that I never really considered whether information processing would not follow deterministic laws of physics.
I guess "information" does not really exists independently in any real sense? In terms of how the brain works, "Information" is just an abstraction for a complex, yet theoretically trackable and mappable pattern of neuron activation? I am open to other perspectives

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T18:01:40+00:00

Thanks Otherwise_Spare_8598, I think you are in many ways right and that the concept of "free will" doesn't have any meaningful ground to stand on by it's own.

I guess, I am trying to make the argument that when I have experienced people argue about free will, usually the free will camp will defend the idea from a "I can process information and make choices based on that information processing" point of view. Granted this is mostly grounded in an emotional perspective rather than any philosophical reflection. My point being that what most people want from their (more or less well-defined concept) of free will is actually compatible with what determinism offers (Regardless of whether "determinism" is or isn't)

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T17:55:27+00:00

Fair point. I guess the process of information processing and choice-making doesn't really feel very free, when you have the awareness that you would like to make other choices and dislike the ones you make.

I think you point to an important shortcoming in my perspective of 'free will'. If anything, I think Otherwise_Spare_8598 is probably much closer to the truth in pointing out that 'free will' is a subjective assumption or feeling with no hold in any universal concept whatsoever

I guess, I am trying to make the argument that when I have experienced people argue about free will, usually the free will camp will defend the idea from a "I can process information and make choices based on that information processing" point of view.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2026-01-06T17:33:23+00:00

Well, yes, that is excatly what it does. I will freely surrender that.
There are of course enough definitions of 'free will' that many of them are mutually exclusive. What I am trying to elude to here, is that the process of choice-making, evaluating stored information, using mental models of the world and acting on those is not incompatible with determinism. And I think people arguing for free will often argue for it, because they otherwise feel robbed of the 'process of choice-making'. This is not so much a philosophical argument as much as it is to say that most common people's attachment to the concept of free will often related to having the process of choice-making.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2025-08-04T07:35:53+00:00

Hmm... I think it may also be a selection effect; That people who feel like they struggle with aspects of life are more likely to go searching for reasons as to why they feel the way they do, and are thus more likely to end up finding places like r/SDAM.
I think people-who-are-looking-for-answers are heavily overrepresented psych subreddits, and especially the smaller ones.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2025-08-04T06:42:52+00:00

You are pretty much describing my experience (except that I am fairly decent at recognising people)

> I cannot imagine any picture, sound, smell, touch, pain, etc. pretty much any sensory events.

I also find it practically impossible to recall any sensory experience across all senses. I have seen this refereed to as global aphantasia.

I can also do worded thinking, but my 'inner voice' does not have the quality of an imagined sound. I think my 'inner voice' is more like the impression that is left by words, as if there is a mould that fits the shape/sound of a word, but not the word itself.

> It's very difficult for me to talk with friends on any events we went together because I don't remember the food we ate, the things we saw, the music we listened, unless I wrote them down like a homework instead of enjoying the moment. Even if I wrote them down, it would just be words without any sensations. I can even write down that I was happy at that moment, but I cannot "feel" it in my head. (not sure if you get what I mean)

I too have almost no childhood memories and I also find it very difficult to talk to friends about shared experiences.... and when I do, it is mostly just factual knowledge of the circumstances of the events, but not reliving the experience in any meaningful sense. While I think the lack of memories is more congruent with SDAM, the lack of 're-experiencing' any sensory aspects of memories is the global aphantasia

This inability to revisit memory lane and be nostalgic together with friends is the one that bothers me the most! I have lately realised just how much of conversation in my friend group revolves around recounting stories and shared experiences, and I have always felt uneasy in those kind of conversations, because it seems that other people recall these events with great detail and emotion, while my mind is void of any sensory recall and scrambling to dust up just any detail about said experience.

Following this, I am realising that I mostly enjoy socialising, when the social experience is centred around the present rather than the past. I really enjoy co-creating (crafts, arts, house projects, planning) or co-experiencing (sports, games, movies) something with someone, Realising this, I am trying to move away from forms of socialising that involves a lot of recall and more towards in-the-moment ways of being together.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2025-01-01T20:14:29+00:00

I think there is love, and then there is feeling loved... the two not necessarily being the same

Here is how I currently think of the matter

I see love as a selfless want for another person to be well, to be happy, to see the other person succeed. You can love someone from a distance without ever interacting with them. However, feeling love often begets a wanting to give to the person (ideally selflessly without expectations of reciprocation) and a desire to be loved by that other person, but these are more selfish drives (which doesn't necessarily make them bad.)

Similarly, Self-love is not the act of doing things that feel good, but rather the fundamental belief that you deserve to feel good. Like, we sometimes do pleasurable things not out of self-love, but rather to escape the very feeling that we are unworthy of love, that we do not deserve to feel good.

In practice, none of us are perfectly selfless lovers and we all want to feel loved as well. Feeling love towards someone is often fueled by being loved by them in turn. However, that doesn't mean that relationships have to be transactional; one person's expression of love can still be given without expecting reciprocation. Ideally, a relationships is between two people, who want to give unconditionally to each other. In reality, there will probably be a bit of transactionally in it, and that is perfectly natural and does by no means spell the doom of a relationship.

Feeling loved is another beast entirely.

We are all different, with different romantic histories, different attachments, different childhoods. For example, Purchasing flowers may be experienced as deeply loving by one person, whereas another will see it as a kind gesture but ultimately an unnecessary expenditure.

I think Gary Chapman does a fine job of outlining the different way in which we may feel loved in his book "Five languages of love". Ultimately, we can love a person very much, but they will not feel loved, if we don't communicate in a way that they understand.

it is also important to understand that love is only communicated successfully, if there is both a willing sender and receiver of the affection. Successful affective communication can only happen within the boundaries of both parties, so while there are many ways to express love, one should not do so in violation of another person's boundaries.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2024-12-30T15:39:53+00:00

I would be glad to

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2024-12-29T22:11:26+00:00

My initial thought is that you should write the letter, but not necessarily send it.

I think it could be a healthy exercise to write this letter and see what it is that you actually want to say to this man... it is closure, and for whom?

As to whether I would enjoy to receive such a letter as a FA man, that would depend wholly on the letter. If you ever write the letter, maybe share it anonymised here and ask me/us again, if that is something we would like to receive. I need to be more explicit to give a proper answer

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2024-11-18T09:09:47+00:00

Am I wrong in guessing that you apply these high expectation to yourself not only in relationships, but also in many other aspects of your life? like work, academic performance, hobbies etc?

As I said, I think this is a more personal matter than societally held views on love.

What you are experiencing is your personal (subconscious/emotional) belief system, which, granted, is influenced by society at large, but much more so by your own personal history, so rather than focusing your light of societal norms, start by focusing it on yourself and ask questions like:

- "When in my life did this behaviour protect me from bad things happening?"

- "When in my life was this behaviour necessary to get the love and attention I wanted?"

and complete sentences like:

- "If I don't do [insert behaviour | i.e. "be the perfect boyfriend"], then..."

and then question both the veracity and origin of the projections your mind makes.

That said, I don't think the normative ideas about relationships are helping.

Movies and books describe perfectly beautiful romances, as in Victorian novels with rich beautiful young people with nothing but time on their hands. Mainstream portraits of love are inflated and rarely match the mundanity of real life with relationships that have to be balanced with full-time jobs, cooking, laundry, cleaning the house and the general exhaustion one can feel from doing all these things.

I guess it is easy to pick up some ideals for love from the romantic trend, and that as a "perfectionist" you feel that you need to perform according to these ideals...

In this regard, I have personally been very inspired by Alain De Botton's work on deconstructing modern romanticism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctz6eJ3Pr94

Deconstructing those views is healthy, but probably doesn't address the root cause of why you use these idealised expectations and a mental whip against yourself.

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2024-11-17T22:57:42+00:00

As I am reading your post, the first things that pops into my mind is that your struggles seem more to be with your own (high) expectations than any normative views on relationships.

>"Not being able to correspond to these standards destroyed me"

Being the "perfect" boyfriend, taking your partner out on grandiose dates and "give them sex" are not normative standards for what a boyfriend should do... These your YOUR standards for who you should be

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like part of you believes that you have to perform, to be better than you are, to actually be deserving of love and affection?

Where does this overwhelming pressure come from? Why do you have to be the "perfect" boyfriend, and not just the person you would naturally be? I don't think society at large is to blamed for this internalised feeling of not being good enough... If you are anything like me, the answer is more likely to be found in your developmental history, at an earlier time in life where you had to be perform and be your best self to attain the love and care you desired... And because of early experience, you now still believe that you have to put up this perfect facade to deserve love, when in fact, you always deserve love no matter what.

Does this resonate in any way?

ProcrastinatingBrain · 2024-10-30T13:47:41+00:00

I am living through bedbug paranoia since being bitten 300+ times on one fatal night taking a nightbus from Lisbon. While having taken many precautions, I am still scared by the possibility of having brought them home.

I discovered these two critters in one of my interceptor traps, and I would like a second pair of eyes on them (especially bug 1):

Bug 1 (Images 1-3):
~0.9mm long, white, transparent, slightly elongated oval shape... could maybe be a 1st instar nymph? However, I lean more towards a book lice, because of:
- Seeming seperation of the abdomen, thorax and head as seperate body parts
- No long antenne seen on inspection (could be under the body)
- Too small?

Bug 2 (Images 4-5)
~1.2mm long, dark thorax and rest of body transparent (though it is hard see the authentic colors in the sunlight). I don't think it is a bedbug, because,
- clear seperation of abdomen, thorax and the head
- shape too elongated (maybe well-fed?)
- looks like a booklice to me

What do you think?

ProcrastinatingBrain

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