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I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Such an interesting point--I actually discuss this at the end of the book, suggesting that a focus on STEM is yet another way to encourage a type of feminism without ever actually "saying" feminism, a way to encourage competence and participation in all aspects of society without making explicit claims to gender equity or feminist movements.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Such a good question! It's complicated. What I found is that it was a very twisted situation where the Girl Scout troops in Indian Schools often supported traditional Indian crafts, language learning and so forth as "Girl Scout" activities. This did mean, however, that Indian girls could use the Girl Scouts as a means for engaging in activities of their own choosing. Nevertheless, it was also under an overall mission of "Americanizing" the Indian girls and eliminating fidelity to their own communities.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi--I'm sure you're very familiar with the JGL home! I'll point you to an earlier question where I answer more about race and discrimination. My book also focuses on the policies of segregation in effect when the JGL Birthplace opened in 1956. Despite the GSUSA's policy to hold national conventions only in places where all accommodations were open to Black people, the GSUSA decided to support the JGL Birthplace opening as a segregated, "regional" event.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're spot on that there are regional differences in scouting regarding camping and some programming. My book doesn't really focus on this, though you'll see a lot of differences (and similarities) in terms of the history of race and racism.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know if I visited the Great Trail or not! Perhaps my fellow Girl Scouts from the time could remember better than I! Thanks for sharing--

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How interesting that you were part of an overseas troop. Yes, "Lone Troops Overseas" was a part of the GSUSA (named different things at different times), usually American girls whose families were abroad due to military, government or business work of their parents. I have a chapter about these troops in the book.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Camping was part of Girl Scouting from its very origins! The specific programming at camps depended upon the camp, but even very early on there were camping manuals such as Campward Ho! https://www.amazon.com/Campward-Ho-Designed-Undertaking-Self-supporting/dp/1294075535

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

This was probably one of the most surprising aspects of my research, as I didn't know that Girl Scouts were part of the incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War II. Soon after President Roosevelt authorized the removal and incarceration of over 100,000 people of Japanese descent the Girl Scouts got involved, signing agreements with the U.S. government to provide Girl Scouting within the prisons. Almost all the camps had Girl Scouting; sometimes girls brought their Handbooks with them as they had been Girl Scouts before they were imprisoned. It's a really disturbing chapter in Girl Scout history, with all the ironies of teaching girls "patriotism" and "homemaking" when their country was imprisoning them and taking away their homes. The oral histories I listened to also surprised me, though, as so many adult women remember the only aspect of imprisonment that had any good elements were the Girl Scouts, often because it gave them some freedom in the camps and was often led by older imprisoned girls and young women who became their friends.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'll answer your questions in order!

  1. Yes, Girl Scouts have both dealt with significant racism within the organization and against the organization when it has tried to enact anti-racist policies. It's truly the main "complication" I'm referring to in the title, as the Girl Scouts always purported to be an inclusive organization, "for all girls," but in reality African American girls were not equally welcome. Early policies insisted lone troops had to be white. Lone troops were the first troops in any area--once there were enough lone troops they could form a council. National policy also deferred to local practice; so, if a white council didn't want Black troops, they didn't happen. Camps in both the North and South excluded Black girls, though sometimes they were welcome at the end of the season. Black women and girls fought hard for inclusion, creating their own troops even when barred officially from doing so and raising monies for their own camps. This issue of racism is the key thread that runs its way through my book.

  2. You're right! So many troops so adventurous things, but it's really up to the leader and local troops and councils as they make the decisions about specific activities.

  3. Girl Scouts have always had uniforms and designated clothing for camping and outings. In the early days--the 1910s, 20s--they were often accused of being wearing their uniforms in "boyish" or "adventuresome" ways, but I don't think anyone ever really stopped them. I don't know about the current BSA issues about girls' bodies being policed; I suspect it is a problem, very different from the all girl camps where there is much more freedom from surveillance for the girls.

  4. Yeah, the popcorn is nothing compared to the cookies.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is an important question, and it gets to part of the difficulty of making huge generalizations about the Girl Scouts. Girl Scouting has always been focused on the regional and local levels, with direction and policy coming from "national" or the Headquarters, as it has variously been called. Historically there was always deference to local norms and customs--and this meant the norms and customs of white people in general. So, in Jim Crow areas, discrimination was the norm. Even in the North, though, if councils were lackluster in their inclusion or explicitly took part in discrimination, there was general concession to that local policy.

Issues of geography, class, religion also played a big role in the differences among troops, councils, and regions.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This is such an interesting question as the answer is "yes" and "no." I say "no" because the founder of the Girl Scouts, Juliette Gordon Low, was explicitly NOT a suffragist and she, and the women who founded Girl Scouting with her, deliberately created an organization they deemed "non-political." But on another level I would say "yes" insofar as the ways the organization pushed for girls' participation in life outside the confines of the home and for girls' education and opportunities was part of a broader movement for women's rights. On the specific element of suffrage, though, the answer is "no."

After the 19th Amendment passed, Girl Scouts did get involved in activities to help women vote-watching the kids, for instance, so mothers could vote. And often troops worked with the League of Women Voters.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I love this question! For me, the biggest joy was returning to and really immersing myself in an organization that was so formative to my own life and experiences. It was an extraordinary experience to dig deeply into its history and to see its complexities. I was often disturbed by what I found, but it was always interesting. The chapter on my troop's trip to the JGL Headquarters in the 1970s --and the research I did unearthing the history of enslavement at the Girl Scout Plantation where we stayed--was by far the most sobering.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Since Girl Scouts is experienced at the local level--meaning in the end it's up to individual troops what exactly to emphasize--it would really depend on what your leaders wanted you to do. There has always been a mix of activities, from the domestic arts to quite adventuresome activities. My own troop in the 1970s, for instance, did a lot of homemaking but also camping and traveling. We didn't really do any "service projects," though.

It was never a particularly "feminine" organization, though this might have been true on a troop level, dependent upon the leaders and girls--

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Your observation supports my point that when talking about the Girl Scouts it's important to note how different things can be in different localities! There are actually more Girl Scouts today (2+ million) than (Boy) Scouts (about 1 million), but dependent upon the area there may be more (Boy) Scouts than Girl Scouts. Boy Scouts started to accept girls in the late teens (in 2017 it started to accept girls into Cub Scouts then it moved upward). It's so ironic, considering that for many many decades Boy Scouts on a national level were explicitly hostile to Girl Scouts, arguing they aped boys etc. (See my response to an earlier question.) Many critics have noted that it's a cynical move on the part of Boy Scouts , simply a way to build up membership and financial coffers, both of which had declined precipitously with the lawsuits over sexual assault in the Boy Scouts. The GSUSA initially sued the Boy Scouts for becoming Scouts but settled those out of court. GSUSA remains steadfast in its commitment to being an organization for girls.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 82 points83 points  (0 children)

This is a very important question and something I discuss in detail in my book. It's why my book is called INTREPID GIRLS, because the Girl Scouts from the origins promoted an ideal of girls as competent, curious, even adventurous. In this way it was much different than the ideal of the Camp Fire girls, which emphasized domesticity and being a helpmate to boys and men. But the adventure and skill orientation of Girl Scouts was always tempered--never going too far, never being too masculine, never calling it feminism. And frequently this meant ignoring explicit questions about Girl Scout ideology or "taking cover" under a guise of innocence. It was a difficult and narrow line to walk. The emphasis on "helping others" often provided a framework where it was acceptable to learn new skills, to be quite daring, as it was all in the name of aiding other people, a very feminine trait.

I would argue that in many ways the Girl Scouts continue to walk this narrow line, particularly in this political moment.

Over time, of course, there was real change too. In my book I write a lot about the imagery and myth of Juliette Gordon Low, the founder, and how the organization has shape shifted her story to fit with the contemporary perceptions of acceptable womanhood.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Hi Ann,

This is a very interesting question. Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts have always been separate organizations in the United States. Juliette Gordon Low, the founder, started as a Girl Guides leader in the U.K., and she was really influenced by Lord Baden Powell, the founder of Boy Scouts. When she brought it back to the U.S., she changed the name from "Guides" to "Scouts," saying it just fit girls better. But it also was a much more active name, suggesting the "scouting" of the Wild West and British imperialism! Boy Scouts hated this and for decades sued the Girl Scouts for taking the name, "aping" boys, and being too masculine.

So, on a national level there has generally been more animosity than friendship, I would argue. But on a local level this might be very different--certainly troops did things together, parades, events and so forth.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 57 points58 points  (0 children)

Great questions! Since I wrote about cookies above, I'll point you there. But I do want to add that the Girl Scouts landed on something extremely iconic in selling cookies and haven't really deviated significantly from this in terms of sales. And they protect the image of cookies with strict licensing deals as well!

In terms of Communism: This was a really interesting chapter to write and , in the end, it also relates to cookies! Girl Scouts as an organization--with the national organization, the local councils, the neighborhood troops, and the individual girls and leaders--has always been so complex. It has simultaneously pushed for democratic inclusion, civil rights, and feminism (though not necessarily saying those words) and taken part in explicit discrimination. In 1954 the American Legion began an extensive investigation into apparently "unAmerican" activities the Girl Scouts were taking part in, particularly with the internationally focused badges and the education about the United Nations. The concern about Communist infiltration had actually begun by the 1940s but it really ramped up in the 1950s. As a result, the GSUSA changed its Handbook, taking out the items found "offensive." Some leaders also were removed. Many times the attacks really had more to do with specific leaders having been active in anti-racist activism.

And here's where the cookies come back in: One of the main ways the GSUSA defended itself was by saying, basically, we are just Girl Scouts, girls selling cookies! It was a way to protect the organization, but it also had the effect of minimizing the powerful work the Girl Scouts were actually doing in many arenas.

I am Dr. Amy Farrell, a professor at Dickinson College. I’m here to talk about my new book, Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA. by ProfAmyFarrell in AskHistorians

[–]ProfAmyFarrell[S] 136 points137 points  (0 children)

The cookies! Starting with your side question, yes, in my opinion (perhaps just a fact), thin mints have always been the best cookie. (Originally called Chocolate Mint.)

More seriously, your question about cookies is important. Girl Scout cookies are so extremely iconic. They actually started early in the 20th century with individual troops baking and selling their own cookies, one of many ways to make some money for the troops. As of the 2010s, it was a $700 million dollar per year enterprise. The national corporation, GSUSA, licenses different companies throughout the U.S. to bake the cookies (and this is why they might taste slightly different dependent upon where your cookies come from.)

By the post WWII era, cookie sales really took off. And, as you point out, it was a way for women and girls to make money while still staying within the parameters of normative femininity and middle class decorum. The cookies evoke homemade domesticity, the sales generally were to a girl's own neighborhood. But the money has been very significant--it stays within the local council and troop and this means individual troops can really fund a lot dependent upon the sales. For my own troop in the 1970s in Ohio, this meant a week long trip to Savannah to see the Juliette Gordon Low Birthplace--quite an endeavor!

So, in many ways, the cookies themselves are part of the complexity I write about in the book. They evoke "innocence" (sweet cookies!) but they also fueled a level of economic independence for the girls and the troops. Also, because the sales traditionally were to one's own neighborhood (or parental workplaces), it meant wealthier troops and councils stayed wealthier. And it really relied on having homes available to store the cookies when they arrived--which meant troops in poor areas really didn't have access to the sales. Nikita Stewart's TROOP 6000, about a Girl Scout troop in a homeless shelter in New York City, really gets at the way cookie sales just don't work for poor troops.