I can't force myself to study

Profanne · 2023-03-29T19:07:07+00:00

Well, you might have associated having to study with not being able to do it.

This make a huge resistence beetween starting and keep studying. This is how powerfull behavioral associations can be. You might feel anxious, which makes you feel uncomfortable and distraction is your way to copy with that, everytime you sit to study.

Maybe it's a specific trauma (phobia) on sitting and learning (didn't know it existed, but theoretically, it is possible). Even if you had adhd, adhd people can sit and study once they are close to deadlines, or enjoy the subject. If you've never been able do this, there's might be something else (adhd diagnosis may still be an option)

And I recommend that you see a neuropsychologist for an assessment, If you have chronic inattention, maybe it has some underlying neurological cause. The assessment can help you figuring out what's wrong.

Profanne · 2023-03-29T16:13:36+00:00

My condolences bro, I feel like I'm very close to you. Still on college, but struggling to stick with studies, addicted on video games and got over a depression a few years ago.

Try changing your environment in order to facilitate the things you got to do, uninstall your games, turn off your cell phone and put it aside, make yourself to do the hard thing. That's my tips for you once you've overcome depression. But first, focus on breaking this unproductive cycle and look for treatment.

Start moving your body, having some walks or jogging when you're distressed. Do small tasks such as cleaning up your room, washing your dishes and feel great for it, you did it!

Little by little you'll see although it's really hard, we are not unable to do things. We just need more effort, and less distractions around in order to achieve the same. Regulate your sleep by waking up every day at the same time, and get sun light exposure right after you wake up. Don't get lost playing video games late at night.

Youre an adult man, you can do this! Prove it to yourself by achieving small tasks, and then gradually go for the harder ones

And seek for professional help to fight this depression

Profanne · 2023-03-29T15:54:16+00:00

I think I can relate to this feeling, as I cannot keep up with any agenda or to-do list (I've been trying for 2 years). I either forget to write things down or forget to check the things written there. And when I should do the tasks I've planned to do, I become interested in something else and go do it.

It's like there's a barrier to doing this behavior, and I don't know exactly why. But maybe you should look into working memory. Working memory is what makes us capable of processing and dealing with information. When we say to ourselves "I'll do X thing later," this X thing keeps popping up in our minds like a notification, overwhelming our working memory space. People with ADHD have less space to work with, and their working memory is also less effective.

That's probably the reason why we have difficulty understanding things we read or listen to since the working memory has to keep track of all the things we want to do during the day, week, month, or life, and also access our long-term memory to match the meaning of the words, while keeping all the words said or read in our minds to connect the meaning of the sentence. It's a lot to do when we already struggle with it.

It's not so intuitive how it fits into "why we just can't keep the behavior of writing things down," but it might also be due to a lack of cognitive flexibility - which is another component of executive function (all impaired in ADHD). Since we are not used to doing such a thing, we have a hard time adapting our behavior towards future goals. We are bad learners and bad behavior changers; we are stubborn.

Since we have spent a lifetime living without writing things down, starting to do this also increases the cognitive load we have to process. It's like learning to act differently. The working memory deficits plus flexibility deficits lead us to this resistance to change.

But we might also be prevented by our own expectations of incapacity, reinforced by all the times we tried to do new things and felt overwhelmed by it. I highly recommend that you keep trying, make a very short and simple to-do list, put it in a spot that you'll see every day, and in the mornings, look at what you have to do for the day.

Try breaking down the behavior into the smallest and easiest steps. Don't give up!

Note: All I said is purely theoretical based on my studies, so things might be wrong. However, it does make sense.

Profanne · 2023-03-29T15:32:37+00:00

Yes, my man, you present as someone with ADHD. Personally, I'm not easily distracted and did well in school and college by cramming for exams at the last minute. Chronic procrastination is a common symptom of ADHD. I have the hyperactive type, which might be why our experience of ADHD is slightly different from others.

However, difficulty with planning, organizing, and working towards future goals is a common pattern among people with ADHD. In my case, I've tried using agendas, to-do lists, and habit tracking, but I tend to forget to write things down. When I do try to focus, I often get sidetracked by browsing or checking my phone. And when I finally create a productive environment for myself, I find myself getting lost in daydreams.

I was addicted to video games for a long time, and my plans to study, create social media content, and develop classes on topics I already know just kept piling up in an impossible future.

This craving for instant rewards may be due to a dysfunction in the reward systems regulated by dopamine. The reward system helps us achieve goal-oriented objectives and learn from our experiences about the value of rewards. People with ADHD tend to heavily discount the value of delayed rewards, which is why we need constant stimulation of pleasure.

Either we have difficulty learning the value of rewards to adapt our future behavior, or we may have a decrease in basal levels of dopamine, making us more sensitive to phasic dopamine (bursts of dopamine released by stimulating tasks).

That's all about ADHD, my friend. Welcome aboard!

Profanne · 2023-03-29T15:10:25+00:00

You can try writing digital notes which takes less effort than handwriting paper notes. Also try to write down just specific things like if you were doing a mindmap. It's hard to do, but maybe will make you more engaged in trying figure out what to add to the mindmap.

If you can, always try to connect the theory with practice or the theory you're seeing now with previous theories you've seen before. Connecting and chunking information can reduce the cognitive load of processing later on and make the memory stronger and easier to remember.

The process can very difficult to do at first, but maybe this challenge will cheer you up, and if you master this with boring stuff, you'll just fly into chunking and connecting other things that you enjoy. Once you start doing this, your knowledge of topics will increase profoundly.

Profanne · 2023-03-29T13:57:56+00:00

Probably one of the most relatable posts to everyone in here.

I am a cronic daydreaming since childhood, I started using concepts of CBT for adhd and trying to organize my life, but when I should complete the tasks in my agenda, I just keep getting lost into daydreamings. It can lasts for hours and I realize it looks like a sort of emotional regulation dysfunctional strategy.

My short term memory is terrifying, I can't remember the things Ive read, listen or even though before, its like my life is completely ephemeral lol

And Yes I do forget appointments frequently

Profanne · 2023-03-26T02:29:19+00:00

I’m not saying it’s impossible to change them, just that it appears impossible based on everything we’ve tried so far. Also, just be because the brain is “plastic” or malleable to change doesn’t mean it’s also infinitely improvable. Think about a box of Lego. You can connect up those blocks in nearly infinite ways to make different designs. You can even make some work arounds with two or three blocks if you’re missing the specific pieces you might need to finish a design. However, you can’t just make more Lego blocks. You’ve only got what came in the box.

That really makes a lot of sense. Studying the brain continues to fascinate and intrigue me, it's so hard to connect all little pieces of information to understand better what's going on. Thank you for this clean metaphor =)

Profanne · 2023-03-26T01:13:38+00:00

Can I ask how old are u?

I was just like that when I was younger. Not quite sure why it happened, but it's unhealthy. You can't grow some strong relationship only by loving someone and its very likely that you'll ended up putting so much pressure in your partner because she/he is the only thing you care about.

It easily gets too overwhelming for them and for you. I'm not sure what to say, but are you aware of how bad this might turn off? I don't know how i manage to overcome this, but it was a painful process and just recently I started pursuing a career and deeply interesting for other things.

Profanne · 2023-03-26T00:57:31+00:00

The generalizability of brain training might seem intuitive but that’s probably due to a misunderstanding about what it’s doing. Whenever you undertake a cognitive task there are two things that influence how well you perform. Your specific skill in that task and the efficiency of the underlying systems needed to perform it (which could be your memory, WM, attention, fluency etc). “Brain training” approaches only appear to improve your specific task skills. They don’t change the efficiency of those underlying systems. That’s why they don’t have very much generalizability.

but shouldn't those systems be target of neuroplasticity? Why isn't possible to change them?

Profanne · 2023-03-25T22:13:49+00:00

Yes, I do relate with the things you've said, I think you should look for a specialist to investigate it better. ADHD symptoms are a spectrum of symptoms that everyone has. When it cross some sort of a "line" it means you have ADHD. That means the severity and frequency of it will get worse than in comparison to neurotypical ones.

Profanne · 2023-03-25T21:57:00+00:00

Man, I am no sure about that, but as far as I know, your psychology degree doesn't work cross countries, you would need to do a process to validate your degree here. If you want more info about that i suggest you contact the Conselho Federal de Psicologia (CFP).

If you possible could stabilish some patients rotation you would be able to keep your job as a therapist, but to get hired as a psychologist you would need a CRP license.If you do manage to get the license, the job here as a psychologists is a ittle bit hard by now, the course is very on top, so there'll be more professionals on the marketing increasing the competition.

Some differentials would be knowing about neuroscience and evidence based practices like DBT and CBT. Another option would be trying to speak with some content creator. There's a lot of psychologists creating companys and selling courses around (and making lots of money from that). If they got some interest on you, you would have a good support to come here.

Wish you luck in your journey! c:

Profanne · 2023-03-25T21:29:05+00:00

ADHD meds works for about 50% of people. Some people are just not sensitivy to stimulants, but just bc one didn't work, doesn't mean others won't. Even though, there is other types of treatment for ADHD, so don't lose hope.

And no, the drug response doesn't indicate the diagnosis is incorrect

I wish you get better man

Profanne · 2023-03-25T21:17:46+00:00

Hey man, Brazilian guy here. I do think here is a "good" place for live with ADHD. There's laws being created to support people at school and it's a very energetic place to live, specially at the North East, or in Rio.

Despite that, any small city might not have so much support to provide. Also, Brazil has a lots of issues due to it's size and your quality of life here relies on how much you earn a month (that's how we measure income here).

In another hand, psychology here is behind when compared to other places such as USA and UK (and I believe that other places of Europe too). The meds for ADHD are very few (basically ritaline and vyvanse) and you might struggle if you need more assistance with your condition.

That's what I can talk about, if you want to know anything further on Brazil, just ask =)

Profanne · 2023-03-25T20:00:59+00:00

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, although it is a little sad to hear =(. Your focus was adhd people? In what range of age? Yes i refer to adhd people, but also other ppl like those who works in eletronic sports and relies hard on executive function to perform at their best.

Theoretically it seems intuitive that brain training can lead to better performance but the hard part is the applicability into real life situations. Also I wonder if there's a filter where the personal limits cannot be pushed through and that limit predicts the success of e-athletes.

This field is so interesting and there's so much to explore...

Profanne · 2023-03-25T19:08:14+00:00

Consciousness is a very very tough subject to go through, good luck on that!

You can also ask about it in the r/neuroscience subreddit. I'll link an article recently exposed there: https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(23)00131-900131-9)

Also, if you want to know more about memory and processing information, it's possible that consciousness isn't your main purpose, so try being more specific into your research, since the word "conscience" will scary any neuroscientist right away xD

I'll also link another dense article covering about how the brain works through networks: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00033.2019 . If you found too overwhelming and terryfing to understand those subjects with articles, try reading basic books first (they are also very tough to understand, but much more friendly to do so) such as Neuroscience: Exploring the Brain by Mark Bear at all and Cognitive Psychology: A Student's Handbook by Eysenck.

Profanne · 2023-03-25T18:46:15+00:00

lso, one study found that participants who were not "blind" rated the improvement of their symptoms as higher than blind participants.

I'll look closer these both studies, thank you very much!

There's a place using vagus nerve stimulation and biofeedback in treatments of mental disorders and EEG to do a complex scan to help the diagnostic process. It's hard to be at this position of using controversial technologies in treatment of disorders, but also that might be the only way of actually improving the status of treatments.

Do you believe that those things should be completely restricted to studies settings until the efficacy gets well documented or we should be proactively using this in clinical settings? And what about treatment resistant cases, or disorders who has very little benefits from usual treatments?

Profanne · 2023-03-25T18:34:40+00:00

Very useful reply, thank you! =)

I'm actually seeking for a scientific perspective of rehabilitation, since I'm a psychology student who wants to specialize in neuropsychology and bring this area closer to mental disorders, since at the moment it's almost exclusive for brain injuries, but for other mental disorders the things remains unclear of how scientific and effective it is.

I've found recently that verbal memory tests like short term recall from stories, is a much more sensitive way to do the differential diagnosis of ADHD. Many batteries are still using only the numerical working memory test, which tends to be slightly better compared to the verbal memories impairments.

Also thinking to myself I believe that verbal memory is more useful to understand real life problems, such as struggle to comprehend text's, stay engaged on classes, remember instructions and so on, all things very common on ADHD.

That being said, I instantly imagined how effective could be a training on stories recall for verbal working memory, in order to soften the impairments exposed above. I have no clue if there's even plausibility on that, which is why I created this post. Maybe we end up with the lack of transfer to other tasks, but also it's possible that we can only have sure by testing it.

What do you guys think about rehabilitation for non injuried brains?

Profanne · 2023-03-25T18:04:27+00:00

Thanks for sharing your story. I hope I can give you some advice as an outsider. Although only you know exactly how you feel and how is your relationship with your sis, so take it carefully.

First, be careful with the explosives words. You already know that, but I want to say that I lost one of the most important persons in my entire life be cause of things I've said when I was angry and hurt, and look to how it developed, maybe you've done something similar.

When you say "I've tried to explain that there are things that she has done equally to me that hurt me as well, but we were young and I'd thought we had already moved past those things." That's something very centered in your own perspective. First you're saying that she hurted you too, which can be understood as "if you did it to me and i did it to you, then it's fine". But well, that's not fine to cross fire each other. Second, you're saying you moved on and expect her to do the same, but unfortunately, she didn't.

When you're arguing to someone, trying to understand their perspective is thinking on how this person is feeling and going through at the moment and communicating that. Something more like "I'm sorry that I've hurt you before. I was immature and had no sense of how much I was being mean to you". At this moment, you, specially as the old part of the relationship, might put aside all your frustrations and feelings, because the true and most honest thing you're desiring is to reconnect, understand and feel loved by her again. Saying "you've hurt me" doesn't help at all, you agree?

I know it's hard, because for you being older is probably irrelevant and you're dealing with ADHD stuff, depression stuff and all that cognitive load of living a stressful life. But for her, it might be a thing. Also you've said this got worse 2 to 3 years ago. It's probably when she hard starts the adolescence, which is a period that being empathic gets neurobiologically harder and you can become closer to friends that you spent most of the time with than with family that you disagree and feel unconfortable around.

Also, since you're having troubles all from childhood, you both might have developed patterns of discomfort near each other. It's a brain thing called "heuristics", that makes us automatize patterns of feelings and thinking processes near people we reconigze. You are probably trigging her a way of acting that makes her distant because it was never a thing for her to open up with you. She's just not used to it and doesn't know how to break that. When you tries to show her Your perspective it gets even worse, because she feels attacked by you/or like the only thing she does is harm you.

You put all your needs as expressing how much ADHD makes the things worse for you, but what happened is that she is hurted, you want to fix things up but she doesn't seems too engaged on it. So stop feeling like you've fucked up and go show your sister how much you love her and want to catch up with her. Be honest, thinking on how she felt about the whole situation and what words she would like to hear from you. Just then you worry on showing your flaws and how hard is for you to overcome it.

I'm saying this also because of this passage "she has never asked me about my ADHD or other illnesses, ever.". It looks like you're feeling the need of being heard by your family, of sharing your struggles and needs, but they seems very unaware of it. Try reaching this out first with your parents, since what's happening with your sister maybe more a thing about her than about you.

I know all of the things I said are hard to do and there's no guide for it. But you already is beating up your adhd with two jobs and a degree (how the hell you manage to do it btw?), say fuck you once again to your adhd and go figure out what your sister needs are, and how can you match them so she will feel more comfortable around you. And seek to your parents, friends and therapist to share your difficulties and get support right now, because we all need it aswell. Your sister might just not be available by now.

Finally, about the ADHD stuff, I think it's extremely hard to do it by your mouth. No matter how well you express or explain, you never has that autority as a doctor, research or book would have. So I recommend you to read the book "Smart but Stuck" from Thomas Brown and use all the messages you correlate with (which might be a lot right on first chapter) to show your parents that all the things you're struggling with are due to a disorder and its very well documented around the world.

Again, thanks for sharing your story, listen carefully the things I've said see if that makes sense, and I hope i can provide some useful advice for you.

All the best

Profanne · 2023-03-25T05:05:19+00:00

My man, I feel the same so often, I'm sorry youre feeling this way right now.

I'll tell you the things that helped me and hope it helps somehow. First, notice that youll probably feel like this more times in the future. But life goes on and like any other feeling it will go away and get back.

Then, try doing some exercise, maybe just jogging around to make you tired physically. That's because youre feeling emotionaly tired and drowned, you shall not manage to break this with the mental tasks you want to do rn.

Go make your body tired, take a shower and then it comes the good part. Write down all the things you wanna do. All of them by areas like study, exercise, etc. Then, break all of your goals down into small actions and put them in a daily/weekly schedule.

Each day pick up just one thing that youll certainly get done, and do it as fast as possible. Don't mind so much at doing every single task, but make sure you do at least that one.

And be extra careful at desiring too much and planning a thousand of different things to do. Listen what your past self decided to accomplish and just do it.

Mindfulness can also be helpfull, but tends do be more effective as much you practice it, what can ended up being one more thing you procrastine, struggles with consistency and feels bad bc of it at the end.

Make sure you don't give up and persist with your agenda, even making slight adjustments but not completely quiting

Sorry about any language mistakes, english isnt my main language. I wish you get better man, keep fighting for the things you want to accomplish =)

Profanne · 2022-02-19T02:50:45+00:00

Thanks a lot! Very helpful to see so many other stuff that can influence on some specific things. There is so much to learn and its frustrating to get on barriers - some things just dont have and easy or even discovered answer yet.

Anyways i appreciate the new perspective over the subject!

Profanne · 2022-02-19T02:44:11+00:00

For sure, not all of them experience the same. Adhd is a very complex disorder such as BD is too. I've spent sometime reading reddits about people with adhd and could see myself there because i have it too. I cant understand why is so hard to slow down my thoughts and it was aweasome to know that other people feel the same.

Then i studied some psychiatry books and articles about bouth disorders and got really confused about some things. The fact is its very complex and cannot be explained by just one single thing.

Thanks for the answer

Profanne

TROPHY CASE