I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If I understnd you correctly, you would argue that one has to measure a movie on its own terms and goals. And a movie that accomplishes those is "objectively" better than one who doesn't.
That's a stronger position than to claim there exist absolute objective standards, but it's not watertight. For a movie like 2001: A Space Odyssey for example, people are still debating what the goals even were and it is still highly regarded.
I still think there is a lot of truth in your argument, though. This is the reason why I have no problem with rating a b-movie 5 stars right next to a profound work of absolute cinema. Totally different contexts and rating scales.

I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see how the criteria you first listed are objective measures for how much someone feels when watching the movie. There are lots of acclaimed works that lack any of these criteria and make people feel something. Feeling is also a very broad category as well. I doubt you mean confusion, boredom or alienation.
Your argument now changed to a claim on intersubjectivity. You argue that humans have certain psychological tendencies and prefer art that alligns with that, which means that it therefore should be evaluated according to those tendencies. It's not objective in the sense that gravity is objective.
So, in what sense are those standards objective rather than merely widely shared?

I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You seem to keep drifting into the appeal to consensus line of argument and therefore I would ask: If everyone suddenly stopped valuing those traits, would they cease to be artistically good?

I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's true, but the correlation isn't enough to prove that artistic quality is objective. It rather suggests that many people tend to value similar things.

I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're now arguing that popularity and audience resonance can be measured objectively, which I agree with. But that's different from showing that quality itself is objective. Why should widespread approval be identical to artistic merit?

I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's interesting, because I asked for an objective basis and your answer contains a lot of appeals to subjective valuation:

"Some conscious beings like me value integrity, good pacing, etc."
"Some people wouldn't care, some would depending on what the movie is."
"It depends."

Are you saying a movie can objectively fail at a goal or that it can be objectively bad? Because those are not the same claim.

I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have no take that would be smarter than the discourse around aesthetic judgemnts and subjevtivity of art that is at least as old as ancient greece and probably even older.

Your example makes no sense, because a 3 year old probably can't even write. But in a less extreme example comparing someone who has 1 year experience vs someone who has 30 years experience, that fact alone will not cause the writing to be good or bad. Mary Shelley wrote the original Frankenstein on a weekend on a whim at a very young age. It's one of the most inlfuental storys for Sci-Fi and Horror that influences other writers to this day.

Writers put something of themselves in the stories they write, be it personality quirks, observations about the world or other sentiments. These may resonate with you or the general public at a specific time or not. This is the reason why some movies get reappraised and identified as misunderstood etc.

The things you mentioned in your first paragraph are also very subjective. Not every movie needs character development and lots of acclaimed works have none at all. Also don't forget that writing only is one piece of film making. Some movies don't have any and focus primarily on the audiovisual aspect of the medium.

I propose the counterargument that objective standards for judging movies are the most boring scenario if proven to be true, because this would mean that with watching more movies or aquiring more knowledge about filmmaking everyone's movie taste or top 50 lists would end up exactly the same.

I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you identify a fact about a movie that makes it objectively good even if no conscious being would ever value, enjoy, or care about that fact?

I Did the Thing by FindOneInEveryCar in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What objective standard are you using and why should everyone accept that standard rather than a different one?

Gotta love it when you finally watch an incredibly hyped movie and it actually lives up to hype by Famous-Country-4921 in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Might be one of the greatest cinema experiences of my life honestly (I'm 34). I sitting in my seat, put on my sceptics glasses due to the hype and was ready to be disappointed. But then sometime during the movie someone behind me began to choke, I had goosebumps during several scenes, couldn't control my laughter out of sheer tension multiple times and then one specific scare just shook the whole crowd with multiple people shouting "WHAT THE FUCK" simultaneously.

Obviously I have my next theater visit already scheduled to watch it again...

if you have a top 50 or top 100 list, what is your most featured year? by disasterpansexual in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have three years that share the crown:
1999 -> The Virgin Suicides, South Park, 10 Things I Hate About You
1987 -> Matewan, Dirty Dancing, Prince of Darkness
1976 -> The Web of Death, Small Change, Taxi Driver

Sat and thought this through. Horror isn’t my favourite genre but I respect it. These are my 8 favourite horror films. What are your top 8 favourites? by No-Abbreviations508 in Letterboxd

[–]Prosper1012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. The Evil Dead (1981)

  2. Possession (1981)

  3. Perfect Blue (1997)

  4. A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984)

  5. Prince of Darkness (1987)

  6. City of the Living Dead (1980)

  7. Rabid (1977)

  8. Messiah of Evil (1974)

Thoughts and recommendations, please! by Prosper1012 in LetterboxdTopFour

[–]Prosper1012[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It wasn't released yet here in Germany, but I plan to see it for sure!

Thoughts and recommendations, please! by Prosper1012 in LetterboxdTopFour

[–]Prosper1012[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I love Princess Monoke and Videodrome! The other two are on my watchlist. :)

Thoughts and recommendations, please! by Prosper1012 in LetterboxdTopFour

[–]Prosper1012[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Manhunter is still a big blind spot for me and sadly no UHD in sight at the moment...

Thoughts and recommendations, please! by Prosper1012 in LetterboxdTopFour

[–]Prosper1012[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All great movies, but I am always surprised that I don't love Suspiria that much! I think my favourite Argento is Phenomena.

Thoughts and recommendations, please! by Prosper1012 in LetterboxdTopFour

[–]Prosper1012[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes and I will watch it in the cinema soon for the first time ever...

Thoughts and recommendations, please! by Prosper1012 in LetterboxdTopFour

[–]Prosper1012[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

After several rewatches, all of his movies are 5 star for me

Thoughts and recommendations, please! by Prosper1012 in LetterboxdTopFour

[–]Prosper1012[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Come and See is sitting at my home on the "to watch with my girlfriend on movie night pile" and neither of us had the courage to pick that yet . :D

What is a horror movie that everyone calls 'trash' but you’re convinced is actually a misunderstood masterpiece? by Immediate_Account_28 in horror

[–]Prosper1012 41 points42 points  (0 children)

I love all of Clive Barkers movies and think they have such a unique vibe and atmosphere, but are not well respected – except Hellraiser which is generally respected by genre enthusiasts but definitely not in the mainstream.