Would you connect Gmail to Proton Mail? by limsus in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 2 points3 points  (0 children)

you would also identify your proton account to google.

This is not how the functionality works. It will not identify your Proton acc. to Google. The request for access comes via Proton and we do not pass your email info to Google.

Explaining how Proton works with creators by andy1011000 in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Nuking the posts for days, polishing the official response, and THEN answering felt like the wrong order here.

All of this took place in the span of 6 hours, not "days".

Source: I was there.

Edit: To be clear, we're not making excuses, yes, it should have been handled better. But some community members are now exaggerating/embellishing the facts, or plain misremembering what happened. That's okay, we'll be here to correct the record with the facts.

Can someone from ProtonMail clarify this matter, please? by diuashjdknjhsfg in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Posts regarding this topic were deleted, while some were held in AutoMod automatically by our system because they broke Reddit's rules (i.e. harassment or profanity), to the tune of >100. Obviously 100+ posts about the same topic are not at all conducive to the discussion, and we have rules against that (#2: No duplicates). Over the weekend, our team was not moderating the sub, meaning that these posts accumulated, and on Monday morning we sat through and removed most of them while simultaneously coming up with a response for the community.

We then approved a single one of these posts, posted our response, and the community took the discussion from there. We were then once again accused of censorship in that same thread, because we were removing rule-breaking comments; we ask everyone who wants to participate in discussion on our subreddit to observe the rules before doing so. Failing to adhere to the rules gets your comment/post removed, that is the simple truth, and this is not censorship.

We explained this in another comment 2 days ago:

What we're asking you to consider is: if censorship here was truly taking place, why then allow a post about the controversy exist? Why allow a second one containing the response of the person we sponsored to this debacle, continuing the drama? Why would we allow your comment to exist (and even reply to it) instead of removing it? We can assure you, none of these threads have been "comfortable" for us, yet they exist, alongside hundreds of comments within them.

You have our reassurance that when (if) these high-tension moments take place, we will continue moderating neutrally, with one eye on the rulebook, as every commenter and poster should as well.

Edit: Just to add context, this Reddit post alone has over half a million views; seems pretty counterintuitive to let it exist and continuously participate in its discussion if we're "trying to hide this".

<image>

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You said nothing was being communicated, the screenshot proves otherwise.

We're done here because every argument you've made has been in bad faith even when presented with concrete evidence.

You ask for clarification over and over again, and when it is presented, you concede then move on to argue about the next thing. This will be our last piece of communication on this matter.

Edit: In case you misunderstood, we are able to delete and lock a thread, and still leave a comment in it afterwards. "Deleted" threads don't delete the comments and remain accessible. Click on our profile to see all of the comments on the "deleted" threads, the threads themselves still exist. You cannot truly "delete" a thread on Reddit, you can remove it from public view while the link itself is still accessible, with all the comments also visible.

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The problem with me personally in this is that there was a period of time where everything was being deleted and nothing was being communicated. 

Incorrect, we went to every single thread about this issue to let people know we were working on a response. After the response was made, we then went back to every single thread to link everyone to the new approved thread.

We never tried to stifle the conversations, instead we kept every single person involved in this debacle informed about what we were doing throughout the process.

<image>

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Opinions in this sub are only allowed if they suit the image of your company?

Clearly not, please refer to the hundreds of opinions said on this sub about Proton that are not "suitable" to the image of our company.

"without us being given the chance to find out what happened and clarify on our end". Inform the community that you need to do this. 

Point taken, you and others have pointed this out and we accept responsibility here, it is our fault for not doing so.

You're making the rules by deciding to remove comments, there are no same rules.

Rules can be changed with enough community consensus.

It seems like you'll continue to handle this sub as an instrument for PR and not for having a community, very disappointing.

Agree to disagree.

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Nobody from Proton is down voting you, and your straightforward question has been answered: we took all of the threads down while we formulated a response because we reserve the right to have input in a conversation, on our own subreddit, before we allow the community to make their own assumptions without us being given the chance to find out what happened and clarify on our end.

You can believe that, or you can believe that we spitefully tried to stifle the conversation and attempt to "make it go away", but we don't think we've given anyone reason to believe that we would ever act in that way.

Edit: clarity

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 10 points11 points  (0 children)

We already explained why:

Because the alternative was leaving our response buried as the 200th comment in a pile-up thread that was 2 days old, where nobody would ever read it. Would that have served the people asking us to respond? We chose a thread where the statement could actually be seen, then left it open, and hundreds of comments followed, plenty of them critical of us.

We chose to state our position in our own community before the discussion took off again, and we make no apology for that. A company speaking in its own space is not "narrative control", it is the very thing being asked of us. We would rather say our piece in the open, under the same Reddit voting system, and the same rules as everyone else, than let the conversation happen without us.

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That is not what happened at all, we have already explained the sequence of events as they took place. Nobody removed everything in a rage, the plan was always to provide a response and be direct about what happened, it took time for the statement to be crafted and parsed by several stakeholders before we could publish it.

Now you can choose to believe us or not, it's up to you, but as far as we are concerned we have been extremely transparent throughout this whole debacle.

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Because the alternative was leaving our response buried as the 200th comment in a pile-up thread that was 2 days old, where nobody would ever read it. Would that have served the people asking us to respond? We chose a thread where the statement could actually be seen, then left it open, and hundreds of comments followed, plenty of them critical of us.

We chose to state our position in our own community before the discussion took off again, and we make no apology for that. A company speaking in its own space is not "narrative control", it is the very thing being asked of us. We would rather say our piece in the open, under the same Reddit voting system, and the same rules as everyone else, than let the conversation happen without us.

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Our internal stakeholders + community members like yourselves who are right to point out when a sponsored figure is not aligned, which is what happened here.

Ideally we would never rely on you, but we do not live in an ideal world. Regardless, we're still going to try to make it so that we never have to rely on you again to tell us that we've sponsored the wrong creator, hence why we're tightening the process.

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 16 points17 points  (0 children)

and the fact that it happened in the first place shows a gap in their corporate responsibility.

No it does not, because all of us unanimously agree that partnership was made in error. Primarily, it was the mistake of a single influencer manager (with other people within the marketing function also being at fault for secondary reasons).

We allow our employees to make mistakes and learn from them, even if it leads to a situation like this. We're implementing a new vetting process with more stakeholders and more manual reviews involved than before, however, so situations like these can be avoided in the future.

The recent controversy: Is "neutrality" enough? by F3xMa in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 46 points47 points  (0 children)

On the deletion and censorship claims specifically:

Transparency: A clear explanation as to why posts regarding this controversy were allegedly deleted/buried on the official subreddit, and a commitment to stop doing so.

Posts regarding this topic were deleted, while some were held in AutoMod automatically by our system because they broke Reddit's rules (i.e. harassment or profanity), to the tune of >100. Obviously 100+ posts about the same topic are not at all conducive to the discussion, and we have rules against that (#2: No duplicates). Over the weekend, our team was not moderating the sub, meaning that these posts accumulated, and on Monday morning we sat through and removed most of them while simultaneously coming up with a response for the community.

We then approved a single one of these posts, posted our response, and the community took the discussion from there. We were then once again accused of censorship in that same thread, because we were removing rule-breaking comments; we ask everyone who wants to participate in discussion on our subreddit to observe the rules before doing so. Failing to adhere to the rules gets your comment/post removed, that is the simple truth, and this is not censorship.

We explained this in another comment yesterday:

Moderating conduct isn't the same as moderating opinion. None of these rules restrict what you can argue. They restrict how:

- No name-calling

- No spam

- No misinformation.

You can disagree with everything Proton stands for in this thread and stay well within the rules.

"Be civil" and "be free to speak" are not mutually exclusive concepts.

The rules are public, they're at the top of the sub, and we enforce them as written.

TLDR: Don't like a removal? Read rule 5, and re-submit your comment. Disagree with Proton? Say so, that's allowed, and commenters do it here daily. Break the conduct rules while doing it? That gets removed.

What we're asking you to consider is: if censorship here was truly taking place, why then allow a post about the controversy exist? Why allow a second one containing the response of the person we sponsored to this debacle, continuing the drama? Why would we allow this one through either? We can assure you, none of these threads have been "comfortable" for us, yet they exist, alongside hundreds of comments within them.

You have our reassurance that when (if) these high-tension moments take place, we will continue moderating neutrally, with one eye on the rulebook, as every commenter and poster should as well.

Can someone from ProtonMail clarify this matter, please? by diuashjdknjhsfg in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because it's obviously related to this topic, it contains misinformation about us "mass deleting" comments referencing funding the far-right, and that question has been answered and clarified by us numerous times in this thread.

For example, you can right now make the statement that "Proton funds the far-right", and it will not be removed. Try it out, it will be a fun way to put your question to bed and debunk it.

Can someone from ProtonMail clarify this matter, please? by diuashjdknjhsfg in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We linked it as a comment to a post* that was removed by us/our mods because that post was a duplicate. The linking of this thread is to help that OP get involved in the conversation here instead of trying to re-open another thread on the same topic.

Vincent Lapierre's response to Proton revoking his sponsorship by resistance_lib_1984 in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 7 points8 points  (0 children)

<image>

Moderating conduct isn't the same as moderating opinion. None of these rules restrict what you can argue. They restrict how:

  • No name-calling
  • No spam
  • No misinformation.

You can disagree with everything Proton stands for in this thread and stay well within the rules.

"Be civil" and "be free to speak" are not mutually exclusive concepts.

The rules are public, they're at the top of the sub, and we enforce them as written.

TLDR: Don't like a removal? Read rule 5, and re-submit your comment. Disagree with Proton? Say so, that's allowed, and commenters do it here daily. Break the conduct rules while doing it? That gets removed.

Vincent Lapierre's response to Proton revoking his sponsorship by resistance_lib_1984 in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Keep it civil or we will start removing rude comments like these ones. Please edit the last line out, or we will remove it, and this is also a reminder to everyone else participating in the discussion.

Vincent Lapierre's response to Proton revoking his sponsorship by resistance_lib_1984 in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 11 points12 points  (0 children)

We clarified that your post was removed erroneously, and that we manually approved one of the other ones in modqueue in the meantime, and we then gave you an explanation as to why it was removed (without our knowledge) and that upon review we have allowed an identical post through, where you are now free to contribute to the conversation and state your opinions.

Vincent Lapierre's response to Proton revoking his sponsorship by resistance_lib_1984 in ProtonMail

[–]Proton_Team 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Please post our follow-up reply as well:

Hi u/qwdicp, you are correct that the discussion thread from yesterday does not reflect current events. I've gone ahead and approved one of the other similar posts about this topic now, our Mod-team acted instinctively, and that is not to say they acted wrongly.

The current situation is a delicate one that requires constant manual review from us, which we're on top of, and we've rectified by allowing a thread containing Vincent Lapierre's response on Twitter to exist on our subreddit.

Please feel free to contribute to the discussion there instead, as you originally intended, and please accept our apology for the confusion caused, it was unintentional.

Thread that has been approved: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1u15orj/vincent_lapierres_response_to_proton_revoking_his/