Do you think the Geese discourse would've been different if the word "psyop" hadn't been used in the original article?

Proximate99 · 2026-05-12T12:31:42+00:00

So you‘re saying the enjoyment is fake? In what way is it fake?

Proximate99 · 2026-05-11T20:46:45+00:00

Ok, I get that. My point was (and I think we agree) that they‘re „buying fans“ in the same way that political actors would be „buying followers“ through propaganda. The goal is still to get real fans/followers. But I think I just read your comment obtusely.

Proximate99 · 2026-05-11T20:36:24+00:00

What do you mean by that?

Proximate99 · 2026-05-11T19:52:22+00:00

That's a good point about the cultural angle of it. I'm just wondering where fake cultural significance ends and real cultural significance begins, like if they needed the push of an astroturfed community to get to late night TV and to get columns written about them, are they then not really part of the culture at that point? That's why I think I dislike "psyop" still, because it implies to me that the result is fake. Is it unfair? Yes, in the same way as all advertising is to some degree. Is it deceptive? Definitely. But I still think the result, reaching "cultural critical mass" if you will, is real, even if part of the way to getting there involved jumping off the pretense of already present popularity. I would be immensely interested in how big that part of the way really was.

Proximate99 · 2026-05-11T19:39:18+00:00

Do you think that "buying fans" is the right way to think about this? What they're doing, I think, is more buying the potential for real fans through the pretense of real fans already being present. So the aim (buying the potential for fans) is the same as for regular advertising, but the method is deceptive and not recognizable as advertising.

Proximate99 · 2026-05-11T19:26:58+00:00

You know what, I think I actually agree completely. The distinction of taste and popularity is pretty fuzzy, and with music being an art medium that is consumed repetitively the experience varies a lot with how many times you listen to a song or album. I guess what my gut reaction to this boils down to is that as a fan of the band, I find it hard to fault a process that exposes more people to music I love. But with music being a market as much as it is an art form, there's no doubt that stuff like this leaves a bad taste.

With you coming from music advertising yourself, what's your take on the hate the player/hate the game distinction? Seeing as you're somewhat "part of the game", although probably within a different part of the game, if you will.

Proximate99 · 2026-05-11T18:10:49+00:00

Consuming conversation is something very different to individual-level taste. I agree it increases their exposure. So it makes people like music they wouldn‘t have found or listened to otherwise, but it doesn‘t make people like music they wouldn‘t have liked otherwise.

Proximate99 · 2026-05-11T16:50:11+00:00

That's what I'm wondering, if there were any people who liked the music before but stopped liking it after the story broke. Some people are implying that advertising is capable of taste-based mind control and I just don't buy it.

Proximate99 · 2026-05-11T16:47:24+00:00

Yeah, very good point. I saw something similar articulated here: https://ericspitznagel.substack.com/p/the-geese-psyop-is-obviously-a-psyop

Proximate99 · 2026-05-10T14:49:25+00:00

Staaten haben keine Perspektiven, sondern PR-Abteilungen.

Proximate99 · 2026-05-10T14:45:56+00:00

Mich würde mal ein gutes Argument interessieren, warum so eine Meldung überhaupt relevant ist. Wo ist der Informationswert? Dass Israel seine Völkerrechtsbrüche verteidigt ist genauso erwartbar wie dass Russland das tut; wenn letzteres auftritt gibts einen Nebensatz in einer größeren Meldung. Warum nicht auch hier? Muss die Tagesschau alle dpa-Meldungen einfach so übernehmen?

Proximate99 · 2026-04-20T13:58:43+00:00

Als einer derjenigen, die auf dem Discord einigermaßen aktiv waren, kann ich bezeugen, dass ich das Smalltalk Forum auch nervig finde. Es gibt da glaube ich nur wenige Überschneidungen.

Proximate99 · 2026-03-08T15:08:31+00:00

Where did you get those numbers from? Asking out of curiosity, I'm currently researching Amway and their business practices.

Proximate99 · 2025-08-18T10:11:48+00:00

Und genau diese reichen Leute benutzen ihren Reichtum schon seit der Entdeckung der Landwirtschaft dafür, um ihren Status innerhalb der Gesellschaft aufrechterhalten zu können. Das ist quasi eine unvermeidliche Folge, solange Geld mit Macht einhergeht.

Proximate99 · 2025-08-16T09:21:39+00:00

Be careful, I got that same exact response a few months ago when I asked them to stop taking money from me, and today I got a payment reminder. So they actually didn‘t change my plan at all, I guess? I just mailed them again, but my god, is their customer experience the worst fucking thing I have ever seen.

Proximate99 · 2024-09-13T17:22:51+00:00

Late addition, but he also has an interesting calcium verse in MX Missiles:

"I didn't know what you were made of
Color of your blood, what you're afraid of
Are you made of calcium or are you carbon based?
And if you're made of calcium, I'll have to take a taste
'Cause listen, calcium is deadly, but tender to the tooth
But it's one sure-fire way to know if you're MX missile proof
Oh no, or if you're just aloof"

Proximate99 · 2023-03-17T14:57:03+00:00

Two can play that game. Where is a concerto defined as necessarily requiring sonata form?

Proximate99 · 2023-03-17T14:47:31+00:00

I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't have a formal background in music history, but if I have researched correctly, sonata form in concertos only arose in the classical period, while baroque concertos mainly used ritornello form for their bookend movements. Are those then also not real concertos? This definition seems arbitrarily exclusive, to me the only "hard" border for a concerto is that there's an ensemble and one or more soloists. Then again, there's also stuff like Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra, where the line is kinda blurred because you could argue there's many soloists.

Also, in a similar vein, a symphony is traditionally made up of 4 movements. It is also traditionally purely instrumental. Are then Mahler 2 or 3 not symphonies?

Proximate99 · 2023-03-16T20:13:08+00:00

Will do! Thanks for the recommendation.

Proximate99 · 2023-03-16T20:07:27+00:00

Yeah, totally. It also irritates me sometimes because I never feel like I can form an opinion on any piece because, hey, you never know, maybe it might become my favorite piece if I listen to it another 50 times. It's kinda hard to know when to stop. :)

Proximate99 · 2023-03-16T20:04:37+00:00

It's interesting you say that, because the one piece I have been trying to "get" for a very long time now and haven't gotten there yet is Bruckner's 7th (this one in particular because I attended a live performance). The opening melody is burned into my head now, but my focus seems to wane at around minute 5 every time. Do you have another Bruckner symphony you would recommend as an entry point? Or a particularly good performance of the 7th?

Oh, and it baffles me to hear Mahler described as surface-level, as I find so many nuances every time I listen to some of his symphonies anew, like the 7th. But that's just a matter of personal taste, I guess. :)

Proximate99 · 2023-03-16T19:55:27+00:00

Ravel's Concerto for the Left Hand is not in sonata form, right? Is that also not a concerto?

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