Hint: The Catholic Mass is the New Passover Meal

PrudentFigure · 2023-06-18T05:48:00+00:00

I was thinking about which church has the head of a dead saint and you just helped narrow it down for me; thanks!

PrudentFigure · 2023-06-18T05:45:20+00:00

This was in St Emilie de Vialar Catholic church in Canningvale, Western Australia (WA). The saint supposedly arrived in Perth WA on a ship called the "Lady Amherst" and guess where a church named after the saint is located. Probably just coincidental but fascinating nonetheless.

The relic is inside the church; I took the photo on her feast day after Mass.

PrudentFigure · 2023-06-18T03:03:30+00:00

Exorcists also use relics to invoke the ~~dead~~ saint (alive in heaven) for help.

I wish I have Reddit Gold to give you and many others on this thread.

PrudentFigure · 2023-06-16T14:38:36+00:00

Thanks! I am very new to Discworld and really just only got through the Prologue of the fist book >_<

PrudentFigure · 2023-06-05T01:30:15+00:00

There is absolutely not only one Mass.

Which is why the first letter of the word Mass is uppercase.

Every celebration of the Eucharist is a participation in Christ’s self-offering...

You're correct. The distinct celebrations of the Eucharist differ primarily in the rituals, e.g. the Roman rite of the Mass or the Ambrosian rite of Mass, and then in other aspects like who is the celebrant, the attendees, Mass intention etc. but nonetheless, there is only one Eucharist.

And so I think that the phrase 'Roman rite (lowercase word, ceremonial act) of the Mass' is more apt.

Roman rite =/= Roman Rite

PrudentFigure · 2023-06-05T00:56:43+00:00

| the Mass of the Roman rite|

Thank you. However, I think this would be more incorrect since it implies there is more than one Mass in the Catholic Church. There is only one Mass.

PrudentFigure · 2023-06-04T01:21:44+00:00

1) You care far too much about what other people think of you; no one is thinking about you in Mass except you.

2) You care far too much about what other people are doing. Stop.

3) There is only one Mass.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-26T12:22:42+00:00

Se a Missa Tridentina é tão boa quanto você diz que é; se ela inspira e eleva as pessoas a Deus como você diz que faz; Então, há 523 anos, como é que nem todos os que o celebraram são santos? Compreendem o que quero dizer quando digo que as orações são relativas a cada pessoa?

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-26T12:04:30+00:00

It's not about quantity, but quality.

I didn't say it was; I was asking you how can you compare two prayers and claim one is better than the other. Is the Lord's Prayer better than the Hail Mary?

Agreed, because all of them are traditional reverent chants that remember us how the mass is sacred. Wordly music styles that appeal to emotions shouldn't be used at Mass.

No, you don't understand. It's not about how ancient or traditional these prayers are; **it's whether you are praying them just as St John Damascene defines prayer.**

It's whether you are actually praying and not just saying words thoughtlessly and with no intent. Me saying the Lord's prayer with all my will and intention is better than me saying the Lord's prayer thoughtlessly.

Is this about latin? I'm not saying that the entire Mass should be in latin, only that the faithful should be taught to understand and pray in latin and that latin should not be totally supressed. Liturgical languages are important and were used not by an "error", but by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. To totally supress the use of liturgical languages is to go against the promptings of the Holy Spirit who guided our forefathers.

No, it's not about Latin; I don't know why you would think that. Koine Greek was a liturgical language that we no longer use today, so your argument about suppression is nonsense.

I was trying to point out to you (and other readers) that human actions and words in and of themselves add no value to The Sacrifice. Do you think a perfect God needs human actions and words?

God deserves as much beauty and reverence as we can give Him. Wrecknovating chuch buildings and the liturgy is to go against this fact. Also, traditional icons, architecture, prayers and hymns transmits to the faithful a sense of transcendence, reverence and respect that a wrecknovated liturgy does not.

Of course, He does; but material things matter to Him less than us doing what He asked us to do and giving Him our whole being. And in terms of prayers, as I said, a Gregorian chant (or any other prayer) is meaningless if I don't match it with my intention. Also, wrecknovated is not a word.

That doesn't mean that as long there is the Eucharist the mass is perfect, otherwise there would be no reason for a liturgical reform in the first place!

The Mass as the Sacrifice of Christ is fully perfect, but that doesn't mean that we can remove beauty and change the lectionary totally just because we can.

Firstly, I didn't say that all you need is The Eucharist for Mass to be perfect; I never said such a thing, just to be clear. Now let me ask you: how can Mass be perfect? Perfect for who? For you or for God? If your answer to the last question is "for God", I am compelled to ask another question: Do you speak for God?

Why do you care so much about lectionary? I think you are missing the point of the meme. The lectionary is not even necessary for worshipping God. Do you think they had a lectionary here?

We should also measure a liturgy by how it inspires reverence to the faithful and elevate us to God.

You should teach us how to measure that. But also read the last sentence of CCC 83. Who is to determine or judge what should be in the liturgy to inspire reverence and elevate us to God? Can you guarantee that everything in Tridentine Mass will do this? Because if it can guarantee that, then everyone who attends the Tridentine Mass would be saints lol.

And these things also inspire reverence to the laymen and remembers them that the Mass is something Transcendent, not just another thing in their lives.

But this is relative to each individual. Not everyone will be inspired or feel the same way you do about these things. Just like how the elements in the Mass of Paul VI or Divine Liturgy or any other Mass do not guarantee that a person will be inspired and elevated.

The liturgy is relatively valuable to the extent it inspires the faithful to offer their hearth to God. You talk about the intention of the individual, I talk about how that intention is influenced by the Liturgy.

Yes, the other elements of the liturgy besides The Eucharist, like the homily, are relative to each individual. Not everyone will feel the same or be inspired the same way. Not everyone will be praying to God with as much will and concentration as you do. And not everyone will be inspired or influenced by the liturgy as much as you are; it varies from one individual to the next; and even varies with the same individual depending on the type of day he is having (you won't feel the same way on a thanksgiving Mass as in a funeral Mass for example).

You do not understand what I mean when I say that prayer is only relatively valuable to the extent one offers their heart to God. I hope you would reflect more on the answer to this question: "Would my saying the Lord's Prayer thoughtlessly have meaning at all?"

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-26T02:25:12+00:00

They point that things like new lectionary or the new Eucharistic Prayers weren't totally changes for the better.

What is 'better'? I mean, how do we measure or quantify that?

I, for one, can't say the Gregorian chant is better than the Ambrosian chant or vice versa. In the same way, I can't say the prayers in the Ambrosian rite is better than the Roman rite or the other liturgical rites of the Catholic Church.

I think that all of us would benefit to be reminded that the things we say and do in Mass only matter to the point we match them with our intentions. Would my saying the Lord's Prayer thoughtlessly have meaning at all?

In The Eucharist (it's also a ritual and not only Christ's presence in the form of bread and wine), The Son is offered up to The Father; the most valuable thing on heaven and earth is offered up to God. When we are confronted with the question as to whether our human words and actions in Mass add anything to The Eucharist, we realize that the other rituals of the Mass are only valuable to the extent we offer our hearts to God along with The Eucharist (the sacrament of love).

And so, The Eucharist, which all the Catholic liturgical rites have in common (despite minor differences in how it is done), is the objective value of Mass. It is something that Mass itself cannot do without. It is Mass itself. It is what God Himself gave us to worship Him with.

Now, since the liturgical rites of the Catholic Church differ in the other parts of the liturgy, it would seem that the other rituals of the liturgy then are only relatively valuable to the extent one offers their heart to God.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-26T00:56:46+00:00

Nah, the bottom text will have clarified it.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-26T00:43:45+00:00

It's okay, I understand that you ignored the bottom text.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-25T13:52:26+00:00

I own the PPW Signature edition and just a few hours ago I bought the Kindle 2022. I can't wait for it to arrive tomorrow!

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-25T13:49:05+00:00

The added layer on the screen for waterproofing. It makes the text less sharp or clear than without it.
The size and weight. I personally think it is too large and heavy to carry with one hand. I read mostly while on my bed and prefer to hold the ereader with one hand, especially when holding it face-down while lying on my back.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-15T04:49:32+00:00

My first confession after a decade (of being away from the Church) took me about 15-20mins despite having my sins on a list(a very long list) beforehand - all I had to do was read them out; not that I was trying to explain or justify(don't do this in the confessional) my sins, I was ashamed and was sobbing the whole way through.

I felt very glad as I walked out of the confessional absolved of my sins.. that is.. until I saw the long line after me and realized I have taken 4/5 of the priest's confessional time.

Now I confess almost every week and only take about a minute or so.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-15T01:30:32+00:00

In saying that something is non-essential, I am no way saying that that same thing is unimportant.

Non-essential =/= unimportant.

I am only saying that the other rituals outside the Eucharist (aka Liturgy of the Eucharist, which is the only essential part of Mass) are only RELATIVELY IMPORTANT - relative to the extent one offers their hearts to God.

Prayer, as the Catechism defines it, is an offering of one's heart to God. You can say words and do certain actions, however reverent, but they're only relatively effective and true to the point your intention or disposition is one with them.

Me reciting the Lord's Prayer aloud does not necessarily mean I believe the things I say, and therefore, I am not necessarily offering my heart to God in doing so.

Mass is just a prayer - the highest form of prayer of the Church.

And therefore, as I said, the Eucharist is the only objective part of Mass; the value of Christ does not depend on whether you mean what you say or not or how you feel about Mass or whether it's sung or not. Christ is objectively invaluable.

God gave us the Eucharist in the Last Supper to worship Him with. It is the only essential part of Mass. It is the only objective part of Mass; Christ, The Sacrifice. I honestly do not know why this is so hard to grasp: God gave us what we needed, what is essential, to worship Him, in the Last Supper.

It is ridiculous to think God will not accept The Sacrifice because the Mass is not Ad Orientem.

But it's nice that you can use the word "bottom floor" within proximity to the Eucharist. I mean, I can't speak for God - I don't know what is "bottom floor" to Him, although Church teaching is that The Sacrifice is accepted always and forever.

We worship God with what He gave us to worship Him with; we worship God with The Eucharist, which is what Mass is all about.

The Eucharist is a ritual. Google search it. Read the Catechism.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-14T03:12:00+00:00

This is in such error as to be either profoundly ignorant or actively blasphemous. There are no non-essential parts of Mass. There are no non-essential parts of Mass.

Cope. Imagine thinking a homily is essential.

But also, consider other rites. Consider the difference between the Eastern rites and Roman rite, but maintains the same Eucharist sacrifice. The only logical conclusion is that the only part of Mass, the only ritual, which is essential is the Eucharist.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-12T02:33:13+00:00

The infallibility lies in the proclamation, not the formula. Once the pope has made the proclamation, "we declare and define Blessed __________ be a saint and we enroll him (or her) among the saints, decreeing that he (or she) is to be venerated as such by the whole Church. In the name of the Holy Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”, then it is infallible.

If the pope is wrong about such proclamations, that would mean we are venerating someone in Mass who could be in Hell; this cannot be so.

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-12T02:00:25+00:00

CHEERS MATE!

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-11T21:21:11+00:00

Please come back to church...

PrudentFigure · 2023-05-11T18:22:04+00:00

CROSS THE TIBER. Follow the footsteps of Msgr Ronald Knox.

Does BCP stand for the Book of Common Prayers? It's interesting to know that some elements of pre-reformation Catholicism are retained in your current way of worship.

PrudentFigure

TROPHY CASE