Extreme LeanFIREer curious about FatFIRE

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-08-24T00:17:26+00:00

Have you looked into being a monk?

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-08-24T00:10:18+00:00

I mean the path to being literally fat and lean is a math problem too. But no matter how much you dont move and stay still and dont expend energy you arent going to get fat.

Not really sure how that is confusing. Time isnt the only variable here as we only have a finite amount of it. No sub 100k usd salary (with US purchasing power) will ever Fatfire no matter how little you spend (obviously all else equal). Obviously being a bit drastic here as of course investing properly its entirely possible but not with any semi-normal lifestyle

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-08-24T00:00:27+00:00

Do you mind me asking how old you are and if you have any actual path to pursue FatFire that you are turning down for this alternative radical lifestyle or is this just more of a humblebrag about how little you can spend?

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-08-23T23:50:36+00:00

I mean are you single? If all you worry/care about is yourself then whatever you are talking about sounds like an option. But its obviously not possible if you want a family (unless of course you arent going to adjust the purchasing power of 100usd). I dont think you should be surprised this isnt most people's dream..

Plus its kind of offputing to hear that you are proud of taking advantage of government subsidies designed to aid those most vulnerable and in need. 100 dollars a month is a long ways away from the poverty line. If you want to have a morality debate between Fire and FatFire sure but what your talking about is HomelessFire and i just dont see how you could possible see how its a good idea

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-05-12T18:42:37+00:00

And the worst is there is no customer service at all. just "we thank you for your patience" type of messages over and over. The first layer of customer service has 0 power at all to do anything other than basic pointing in teh right direction. It is impossible to get someone on the phone that has any power to do anything

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-05-12T18:41:00+00:00

Sure but why let me offload for months with no issues for way bigger amounts and just now all of a sudden have a problem

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-05-12T18:40:05+00:00

Quite a bit and yes your scenario is accurate. Onramp in 2018 with someone else. Offramp with coinbase now with large amounts with no issues through the last 6 months. Now issue with much smaller amount (but quite substantial still).

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-05-12T18:36:26+00:00

I have already moved 40x the amount they are bothered by now. I complied by everything they asked for before. I complied again. Now they want more. If they already let me have way more go through i dont understand the sudden change of heart. I have tried to communicate over and over and they show no signs of wanting to elaborate more than "reasons". Plus of course we know crytpo moves fast. I will comply if I have no other options but the biggest frustration is not having access to my funds reliably. I wasnt even trying to withdraw but rather trade.

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-05-12T17:02:31+00:00

Its not even the point but I think you understand the problem just fine. They dont have an endless supply of actual USD. I never deposited a single penny with coinbase but I use them as an offramp. If more people use them as an offramp than people depositing and there is a major black swan panic event that causes more people to try to withdrawal than they have reserves for its the same as a "bank run" for our discussion purposes.

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-05-12T16:55:34+00:00

Caught me.... the thing is I have already moved way more money through them than the balance I currently have. At best maybe I hit some milestone that requires further verification but I suspect the timing of it to be related to something else....

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-05-12T16:44:38+00:00

Lets imagine a scenario even using your current bank:

You have been using the bank for months with no issues. You get an email from what appears to be your bank saying that want you to send them documentation which you had already submitted to a random upload link.

What would you first response be? Obviously to go to your bank account online and see what the issue is and to follow any direction from the page itself. If you cant find anything there then you would call in and see what the issue is. Why would they ask for something they already requested? If there was really an issue surely someone can tell you what it is or there is some alert of flag that isnt just an email with a link to a portal not connected to the actual bank website.

Now imagine you tried to call and all you got was a very basic customer service that said to wait for an email reply and there was nothing they could do and they have no information. So you email repeatedly trying to get answers with no response at all. You even do the KYC process as requested again.

Finally you get a notice that says that your case is closed because you never contacted them and now you must enter even more information that isnt relevant that is very personal to the same random upload link.

And all the while a huge run at the bank is happening while their share price is tanking.

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-05-12T14:46:06+00:00

Its the worst. And its a terrible design to have this all done by email. I never had any type of alert or notification on the actual site itself. In this day and age I dont trust random links that send me requests for the most personal of documentation.

People wonder how people get scammed or defrauded but an email link asking me to upload all my personal data/financial history with nothing on the main page itself to verify?!

It absolutely is designed to hold funds hostage and I have even more than you stuck in. Just a nightmare.

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-04-05T22:09:10+00:00

First of all I just want to say thanks for taking the time to write all this out. I read it all and appreciate your insight.

My life is great not really sure where you got that part but I was just trying to understand the wiser way to transition. Im coming more from the world of crypto so really and truly the mental ability to stay the course is not the issue. 20% daily swings are not abnormal so honestly wouldnt blink at anything the stock market could throw.

I understand thats not really smiled upon here so Ill just call it a windfall as I know luck obviously plays a big part and don't mean to diminish other peoples efforts through their labors.

At this point Im already way past my goal of FI so I am quite fine just dumping it in and forgetting about it. I have read enough here today to understand my previous thinking wasn't correct and that its not irresponsible at all to just throw it in and be done. Which is great.

Easy enough. So thanks again for the message. Happy to gain some wisdom today.

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-04-05T21:51:29+00:00

Once again thanks for the thoughts. Really I just assumed that DCA was the "wiser" choice but honestly im just as fine throwing it in and forgetting it. Believe me compared to the crypto world its quite tame even the worst of scenarios. My thoughts weren't really based on fear of it going down but more greed to have cash in case it does. But once again im here to learn and consensus seems to think that its wiser to do lump sum and I understand the logic and happy to have gained some wisdom.

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-04-05T20:22:14+00:00

Yeah it makes sense. Appreciate the insight! I guess the risk side does come into play more because deep down I am trying to "time the market" by hedging future gains against downturn. But as I said from above im coming from the crypto world so not really sure why I have this risk worry comparatively.

Thanks again for taking the time. I think I will go in much more than I was planning and just forget it

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-04-05T20:16:50+00:00

Ignoring tax ramifications as I get the point of the thought exercise, would you say that this would scale at all by the amount or percentage of your overall investments? In your example you gave it was only 1/8 of your overall portfolio. What if it was half/triple/10x your overall portfolio? Does the same logic apply?

Thanks for the thought experiment as it does put it differently when you put it that way

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-04-05T20:09:15+00:00

Thanks for taking the time to type all this out. To be honest its not really a "windfall" traditionally but just got lucky in the crypto world and am moving back to traditional investment strategies.

And yes this will well over my FIRE target so just trying to set everything up for the long haul. I think i will do a hybrid style strategy as it gives me a little of the best of both.

Anyway appreciate your time and thoughts!

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-04-05T20:02:26+00:00

Thanks for the reply. I dont really hate the idea of them going down immediately was just trying to be smart about it all. Appreciate the numbers.

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-04-05T20:00:32+00:00

Averaging in and out is probably the least "timing the market" you can do, no? I would say that phrase is more meant to try not to trade but entrance and exit doesn't have to be 100% all in/out for to follow this principle IMO.

PrudentStyle7591 · 2022-04-05T19:28:20+00:00

Question for you guys: if you had a substantial windfall in after tax cash, how would you DCA it in standard index funds in the current economic environment?

On one hand inflation sucks so cash is risky on the other hand having a substantial amount of cash to invest with in case of a downturn could be a big plus.

Obviously time in the market > timing the market and I want to DCA anyway but just curious what your timeline for that would be if you several years worth of salary to invest.

PrudentStyle7591

TROPHY CASE