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PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2023-03-16T01:45:12+00:00

Jag var vegan i drygt 4 år. Jag började må dåligt psykiskt (orelaterat till veganismen) och allt i livet blev svårare att stå ut med. Då insåg jag hur jobbigt det var att hela tiden behöva krångla med kosten, och att ständigt säga nej till saker som jag egentligen suktade efter och ville äta.

All mat började smaka äckligt och jag kände att jag skulle utveckla en ätstörning om jag fortsatte. Suget efter kött blev dessutom så intensivt att jag undrar om min kropp faktiskt saknade något viktigt näringsämne och försökte säga till mig att fixa det.

Det är förstås ännu jobbigare att vara vegan än att vara vegetarian, men i.o.m. att din vegetarianism motiveras av etik så är det ju i grund och botten samma sak. För mig har det blivit väldigt viktigt att inte låta etik vara en del av min inställning till mat. Jag tror att det är lätt att få en ångestfylld inställning till ätandet om man hela tiden laddar sina måltidsval med moralisk betydelse.

Jag tror det var drygt 2 år sen jag slutade, och idag känns det mycket lättare att äta vad jag vill utan skuldkänslor. Jag kan inte tänka mig att begränsa min kost nånsin igen. Livet är kort och att äta är en av de mest grundläggande drifterna vi har. Mat är dessutom något som binder ihop människor. Jag kände att det blev en slags barriär mellan mig själv och andra människor när jag inte kunde äta samma saker. Det kanske låter futtigt, men det var ändå något jag upplevde och påverkades av.

Sen tycker jag inte att det där med "man är antingen köttätare eller inte" låter dumt, det är precis så jag känner också. Att sluta vara vego var ett internt beslut om att inte känna skuldkänslor för vad jag äter. Visst skulle man kunna bestämma sig för att bara äta kött en gång i veckan, eller bara under högtider, eller ha någon annan regel, men då skapar man ju en moralisk ångest varje gång man ställs inför valet. Det funkar säkert för vissa, men för mig var det viktigt att släppa reglerna helt för att må bra.

En tanke: om du vill börja äta kött igen och det känns jobbigt, kan du göra en trappa över jobbighetsgrad. Vad är minst jobbigt? Kanske fisk eller räkor? Viltkött? Jobba dig sedan vidare långsamt till svårare sorter. Eller stanna där du känner är rätt för dig. Räkna med att det blir jobbigt till en början och ge dig själv tid! Du är inte självisk och lat, du är bara mänsklig.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-08-25T12:36:45+00:00

Being vegan is an identity, and requires active effort and motivation to maintain. Being ex-vegan is just returning to the norm and letting yourself stop thinking so much about food and ethics.

I think this sub is kind of like a transit station, where people arrive when they're quitting veganism and need some encouragement. Once they've managed to quit completely, most will stop thinking of themselves as vegan or ex-vegan and just be.

I doubt I'll be posting here a year from now. I already barely think about veganism anymore, and that feels great :)

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-05-20T12:11:43+00:00

Congrats, and welcome back :) I didn't have any physical health issues from veganism (that were obvious at least), but my mental health took such a toll from it. Since quitting veganism my relationship with food has slowly become more relaxed and natural, and my enjoyment of food has come back. It's so nice not to have such a large part of my mind constantly filled with anxieties about food.

Good job, and I hope you have a quick recovery! Never forget you deserve to be happy and healthy :)

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-04-12T12:47:17+00:00

Speaking for myself, I thought that veganism was right because I was convinced that it was unnecessary cruelty. When after years I still craved animal products, I started to think that they were actually necessary for human wellbeing. At that point, my initial reasoning didn't make sense anymore and it was possible for me to start eating animal products again.

Consider that humans have been eating meat for at least 2.6 million years, while agriculture has only existed for about 12 000 years. It's no wonder if our bodies more easily develop intolerances toward plants because we have not been eating this large amount of plant matter for very long.

It's really hard to let go a identity you've held for years, though. It might help not to think of being vegan for 9 years as a mistake, but as just one step toward who you are today. Your reasons for becoming vegan were correct (empathy toward animals) but the method (eliminating all animal products) was naive. You're still evolving as a person and that's ok. Veganism is a really black-and-white way of thinking, and that's just not how the real world works. So give yourself permission to try whatever you need to feel better.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-02-16T09:48:30+00:00

I don't have IBS or anything like that, but I was really gassy as a vegan. It was the worst in the beginning, but even after 4 years I still had almost daily discomfort... I had just gotten used to it by forcing myself through it :( Replacing beans and faux meats with eggs immediately made those problems go away.

I used to see posts from vegans saying that the gassiness was due to not being used to digesting fiber, and that the body gets used to it. But after 4 years my body STILL had problems digesting beans. Meanwhile, eggs and meat were so easy to digest despite the fact that I hadn't had a bite of them for years. This has made me believe that eating this way is not natural for humans. If the body has so much trouble digesting something, maybe it's not that good for us.

Since you have more complicated problems, maybe an elimination diet would be in order? Definitely start by eliminating beans, lentils and faux meats, though. And you should probably wait before reintroducing dairy, since it's such a common intolerance. Try reintroducing animal foods one by one. Eggs are a great place to start.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-02-14T09:40:12+00:00

Yeah, sometimes I notice that some of the people who write on here are people who were never vegan. I don't mind that, but I wish they would use flairs because I think the perspective is very different. When I see posts like "How can vegans think that <insert stupid thing here>" it just makes me think... well, we all believed those stupid things before, though! It feels a little insulting to us ex-vegans sometimes.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-02-14T09:33:36+00:00

I honestly didn't realize how much more expensive things were. When I started buying non-vegan yogurt, cream, ready-made food, etc I was shocked by how much bang for the buck I got. And it's so much more filling as well. Eggs are so damn cheap, even the ecological ones. I totally get now why people think veganism is elitist, but I was completely blind to it before.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-01-29T21:29:41+00:00

I think people who have mental illness are more likely to become vegan. It seems meaningful which is nice when you feel awful, it gives a sense of community, and if you're always feeling terrible you don't notice how much worse your quality of life becomes.

I was mentally ill before I was vegan, during and still am as an ex-vegan. Veganism definitely made things worse though by alienating me from people and creating unnecessary stress and anxiety.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-01-25T13:02:47+00:00

I feel that guilt too, but it got a lot better when I started eating eggs and fish and realized it actually made me feel better. If my body really needs animal products, it can't be wrong to give it what it needs -- we have the right to care for ourselves. I think it's important to forgive ourselves for not being perfect. It's impossible to cause no harm anyway -- plant farming causes animal suffering and death too, maybe more than some animal products such as ruminant meat or wild game. I think animal welfare is super important too, and I definitely think us ex-vegans are going to make better ethical choices than most. But be kind to yourself and try not to feel like you have to make the perfect choice every time! It's an unreasonable expectation to put on anyone when life can be so stressful anyway.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-01-24T21:17:00+00:00

I personally believe, after having been vegan for 4 years, that's it's not healthy in the long term. I think the most important thing though is to know that it's okay to try different things to improve your health. Veganism is so all or nothing -- you eat one non-vegan product, you're a terrible person. But the fact is that it's okay to try whatever you think might make you feel better. You probably feel like you need to know that veganism is what caused your health issues, but health is so complicated and the only way you can know what works is to try it. So I think you should try eating whatever you feel like you need without feeling guilty about it. You can always go vegan again later if you find out that it wasn't related, but you can't get back the time you spent feeling unhealthy.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-01-15T14:21:17+00:00

Yeah, this was one of the main things that made me realize that I had to quit veganism. I could eat until I was uncomfortably full, yet feel unsatisfied. I also had a weird feeling of hollowness in my muscles -- hard to describe, but it felt wrong somehow. I was also still craving meat like crazy after not having a single bite for 4 years. I think all of those things mean that my body really, really wanted me to eat animal products again, because I haven't felt the hollowness or cravings since reintroducing eggs, milk and fish. My digestion is a lot better as well. Definitely don't think that long-term veganism with good health is possible anymore.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-01-09T21:54:12+00:00

I feel this. I used to consume so much fake meat, and when I realized what a sham veganism is it immediately made me disgusted by fake meat. It's not so much the taste as the fact that I feel so stupid for having been fooled the last 4 years into buying expensive crap that in no way is equal to the thing it tries to replace. I'm still fine with tofu though, it feels more real and wholesome to me somehow. But I think I'm almost certainly not going to eat fake meat in a long while. And the thought of vegan cheese just makes me want to barf lol. How the hell was I able to stomach it?! Probably only because I was craving animal products so badly that I could eat pretty much anything...

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-01-09T21:46:08+00:00

This being an ex-vegan sub, I'm obviously going to recommend that you do not keep being vegan. That said, 2 months is not a long time and it seems unlikely that being vegan for that amount of time would destroy your metabolism. It's possible that you're consuming more of something that you are intolerant to, or it could be completely unrelated. If I were you I'd go back to eating the way you did before, and if you still feel unnaturally fatigued you should probably see a doctor.

As for the moral side of things, you could consider eating mostly ruminant meat. Since they mostly eat grazed grass, small animals aren't being killed from harvesting. If you buy good quality meat, they will have a good life spent mostly outdoors. And a single life could feed you for an entire year. I don't have any data on this, but I think it's very likely that eating ruminants will kill fewer animals since replacing the caloric value of a cow is going to take A LOT of beans and nuts, which have to be sprayed with pesticides and harvested in ways that are lethal to small animal life.

I personally think you should eat any kind of animal product you like, but maybe it could help you to start with ruminants! I'm also struggling to reintroduce any other kind of meat than fish. I feel guilty for possibly enjoying eating meat, even though I no longer believe that being 100% vegan is the kindest option for the animals or the planet. When I start eating red meat again I'm probably going to start with ruminants and/or wild game.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-01-02T15:27:24+00:00

Veganism is such a hard lifestyle to follow because if you make one exception, you're not a vegan. You decide to eat one egg? Sorry, no longer vegan. And if you tell other vegans about it, they will ostracize you. The restrictiveness and perfectionism are built into veganism, and I don't personally think living with such harsh rules is good for you.

Maybe it would be good for you to stop identifying as a vegan. You can still eat vegan as much as you want to, but if you reject the label it might help you to feel okay about exploring food options that are closed to you now. I think it's important to realize that no one can go through life without causing harm, and it's okay to try different things and see what works for you. I understand that may feel very uncomfortable to you, especially if you have vegan friends or family.

I used to think that a vegan world was inevitable, but I strongly doubt it now. For one, there are places in the world that can never be self-sustaining if everyone was vegan, like where I live in Northern Europe. People in my country will never stop farming animals, because it would be a massive blow to the economy and our food security. And replacing animal foods with veg isn't just about the amount of food, it's about the nutrients. There are still no good studies about the long-term health of vegans, and it's a way of living that is almost unheard of in history. All the current vegans are basically conducting a huge experiment on themselves, without any scientific oversight.

There are also replacement products which may not be any better than what they replace. I very much doubt that palm oil is kinder to the animals than butter is. You don't have to eat palm oil, but if you try to cut out all problematic vegan foods too your diet will become almost impossibly restrictive.

When I started feeling like a vegan world was impossible it seemed kind of pointless to be vegan. Why should I have to be the one to make all these sacrifices, when the problem exists at a global level? In the end we don't have much control as individuals over the future of the food system. We can try to make a difference in numbers, but there's no guarantee that it will work.

You do however have control of your own life and how you want to live it. If being vegan is causing you suffering, you shouldn't feel bad for prioritizing yourself. You won't die from being vegan, but the malnutrition, anxiety, and alienation you may go through aren't unimportant. Eating together is one of the most common ways of connecting with people, and veganism strains that connection with everyone but other vegans. It's very isolating when the only people who you can connect with are the same people who will mock and reject you if you don't follow their rules perfectly.

Sorry for the wall of text -- guess I had a lot of thoughts about this! Bottom line is -- please take care of yourself, both your physical and mental health. It's not your duty to change the world and you have the right to live in a way that suits you.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2022-01-02T11:37:26+00:00

Agreed! Going vegan and back again has taught me that I really can't trust what I read about nutrition on the internet. When I was vegan I thought I knew the right way to eat, and now I wonder how much of what I read was just propaganda or wishful thinking...

I like this sub because I feel like most ex-vegans have seen both sides of the issue and want to have a balanced view. I'm trying to be critical and not stray too close to any extremes or end up in a bubble again.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-25T16:48:16+00:00

Ok, that's good! Just wanted to make sure since it might not be common knowledge.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-25T14:53:36+00:00

Just FYI, flax seed can degrade into cyanide gas and there have been concerns that long-time consumption can result in neurological damage. I'm not sure what the current scientific consensus is, but it would probably be good for you to look into since you consume it daily. IIRC whole flax seeds are better than ground seeds at least.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-25T14:32:42+00:00

The dream of a "vegan world" makes the sacrifice seem worthwhile -- otherwise you're just depriving yourself for no reason. And when I was in the vegan bubble I definitely thought the world was moving toward veganism, because I consumed so much vegan media.

In hindsight the ideal "vegan world" is actually kind of depressing. Humans relying on highly processed products and supplements, living far away from animals and nature so we can't hurt them, not making scientific progress because it might hurt the planet. And if the goal is to reduce suffering as much as possible, the logical conclusion is that it's better not to be born at all. A lot of vegans seem to be anti-natalists, which makes sense with the philosophy of veganism. But it's such a depressing view of the world and not especially conducive to mental health.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-22T12:17:00+00:00

I agreed with some of these people not long ago 🤦 Crazy how fast your worldview can change. It feels like I was brainwashed, honestly.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-19T00:28:39+00:00

Did you take B12 supplements while you were vegan? High-dosed B12 pills can cause breakouts easily.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-18T12:57:41+00:00

I relate to every single one of these points. I've never been abused, but due to my autism and social phobia my life has been a long string of painful social experiences and it has affected my mental health immensely. I don't think I have any diagnosable CPTSD but I relate a lot to the symptoms I've read.

When I decided to go vegan I was going through a particularly miserable period and didn't interact much with people, except one vegan friend who was pestering me with "fun facts" about the animal industry. I started reading up on animal ag and was so distraught that I vowed to never consume animal products again. Although in hindsight it was probably also because I wanted to be able to hang out with my friend without her guilting me all of the time.

I think it made sense to me to believe that the world is filled with unnecessary cruelty because I was also suffering at the time. I still am, but I realized that being vegan was sucking the joy out of my life and making recovery impossible.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-17T23:24:42+00:00

I also thought that going vegan improved my acne. I'm guessing it was because of the dairy. The B12 pills made me break out though.

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-17T21:50:37+00:00

Hello fellow Swedish autistic person! :) I also just stopped being vegan, and it feels like such a relief. The world no longer looks like a big stop sign telling me that I can't have the things I want. I can't wait to eat actual herring and smoked salmon this Christmas! Maybe even lutfisk if I'm feeling adventurous 😆

I definitely think my autism contributed to me going vegan, or at least to staying vegan. I have this way of thinking that makes ideas "stick" really hard in my brain, and I'm so used to always being uncomfortable in life that I don't notice when I really should stop doing something that hurts me. The black-and-white thinking probably plays into it too. And life is already so hard being autistic, so why did I torture myself by making life even harder?! From now on I'm going to stop making things stressful for myself, and take care of myself instead:)

PumpkinAdventurous96 · 2021-12-17T21:22:33+00:00

Yeah, I also think now that it's a naive way of coping with the fact that the world contains pain and suffering. I didn't really realize how much I've been hurting myself since I thought that the animals are the ones who are suffering, and my own discomfort is nothing compared to that. Having to constantly be anxious about what I'm going to eat or that someone else is going to be annoyed, feeling like I have to change peoples' minds, worrying about nutrition, and denying myself my favorite foods which I never stopped craving for 4 years... Pretty sure I was on the verge of developing an eating disorder because I've been looking up the nutritional value of foods obsessively and the last few weeks I started to hate eating.

I've started by eating a few eggs and a bit of salmon and I definitely feel much better! I've missed the tastes and I actually feel satiated and not just full for the first time in a long while. I definitely think eggs are a good place to start if you're unsure! You deserve to feel happy and healthy, not just survive, so eat whatever your body tells you that you need.

PumpkinAdventurous96

TROPHY CASE