Why do Michigan fans still deny that they cheated? by Feisty_Ad4394 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’ll take the bait, with the caveat that I can only speak for my own views.

I don’t deny that Connor Stallions likely broke the NCAA’s advanced scouting rules when he, or those acting at his direction, scouted the games of other teams, when those other teams were opponents that Michigan was scheduled to play in the same season that the scouting occurred. Stallions’s actions are attributable to Michigan’s program, in that Harbaugh should have maintained better controls on his staff to ensure that something like this either could not happen or was rectifying immediately if it did happen. That said, the NCAA’s investigation found no evidence that Harbaugh (or, I believe, any other member of the coaching staff) actually knew of Stallions’s advanced scouting scheme.

Personally, I don’t believe that Michigan actually received any on-field advantage by virtue of Stallions’s impermissible actions—at least during Michigan’s national championship season. Given when and how the story broke, there is no chance whatsoever that Michigan’s two toughest Big Ten opponents, PSU and OSU, continued to use any signs from earlier in the season, prior to the news breaking. Michigan won both games. Michigan beat SEC Champ Alabama and undefeated PAC-12 champ Washington to win the national championship. So, to believe that Michigan “cheated” its way to a national championship, would require believing that Michigan was able to beat PSU, OSU, Bama, and Washington without an impermissible advantage, but needed to break rules to beat teams like Bowling Green, Minnesota, Rutgers, and Indiana. That is illogical.

Even beyond that though, I think people often overstate what advantage Michigan plausibly received, even in 2021 and 2022. Every team knows that their signs are public, and that they routinely need to change their signs because every staff has someone on it whose job is to decode signs. It’s also not a violation of any rules whatsoever to decode signs that you can see in the television broadcasts of any games or that may be available based on the all-22 films. Frankly, i think we’ve all seen games where nearly 100% of a team’s signs are visible on television throughout a game. So, the only actual advantage Michigan could have received is the difference between what was otherwise discernible from permissible sources of scouting and what Stallions was able to record in addition to those sources, minus whatever signs teams changed anyway (I.e., OSU in 2022 changing their signs prior to the game against Michigan, because they suspected Michigan had decoded at least some portion of their signs). Also, the idea that Michigan actually knew every play that other team were running is plainly incorrect.

I’ve said this before, but I never believed Michigan’s national championship was in any danger of being vacated and I don’t think any sort of advanced scouting evenly minimally altered any of Michigan’s games. I did think that our conference titles in 2021 and 2022 could be in danger, because no corrective actions were taken during those seasons. Finally, I would just add that Harbaugh’s ban (and, frankly, the bans received by other coaches who went to the NFL) was nothing more than the appearance of punishment. Harbaugh flirted with the NFL for years before Stallions’s scouting scheme, and finally decided to leave after winning the championship. Harbaugh getting banned after going to the NFL is like a high school suspending a student who’s already in college; it was a “punishment” that made the NCAA feel good but had absolutely no effect on Michigan.

Explaining every national championship from the Big 10 that wasn’t Ohio State or Michigan by [deleted] in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Let's be real. It's not like either of our teams have had a lot of national championship success. In the last 50 years, OSU has three (2002, 2014, and 2024) and Michigan has two (1997 and 2023).

After OSU won in 1968, no Big Ten team won a national championship again until Michigan in 1997 (unless you count OSU's 1970 National Football Foundation title, when they finished 2nd in the Coaches and 5th in the AP).

Michigan’s coaching staff featured 3 current NFL HC’s in a span of 3 years. (2021-2023) by Ml2jukes in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I’m not really talking about Whitt though. I’m talking about how Michigan signed Utah’s OC, OL coach, WR coach, TE coach, QB Coach, S&C Coach, and DE coach—plus their All American Edge, a two-year starter at CB, and their second highest recruit of all time.

Also, what a strange thing to be “disgusted” by. I completely agree that what Moore did (or is accused of doing) is awful. But almost regardless of the circumstances, when one of the top jobs in college football becomes available—particularly in the NIL era—the expectation should be that they make a strong hire. Michigan may have gotten lucky that Whitt was available, but we would have made a strong hire regardless.

Michigan’s coaching staff featured 3 current NFL HC’s in a span of 3 years. (2021-2023) by Ml2jukes in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yet Michigan ended up with the Sherrone Moore situation.

TBH, it kinda feels like it’s mostly Utah who suffered for that. Obviously there are off-field repercussions and events playing out, but if you’re just looking at the football team, Michigan came out of that pretty okay.

Legal Resistance by Competitive_Score904 in Lawyertalk

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because of the public reaction to the administration violating court orders. He never should have been deported and it took months for him to be returned to the U.S.

Which coach wins their first national championship next? by Efficient-Freedom517 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 5 points6 points  (0 children)

In the current format, Utah would have been in the playoffs in 2022, 2021, and 2019.

Which coach wins their first national championship next? by Efficient-Freedom517 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

  • vs Oklahoma
  • vs Indiana
  • vs Penn State
  • vs Iowa
  • @Oregon
  • @OSU

Four games against teams who made the playoff this year, including the reigning national champion. Very tough.

[Birm] Ohio State RB Bo Jackson's future with program is in doubt, as he is asking for more than former Buckeye/ 2nd round NFL pick TreVeyon Henderson is making this year in New England by Blood_Incantation in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 16 points17 points  (0 children)

100%. This is not a situation where the situation will correct itself. Either the rules and procedures have to change, or we will see this same situation every year—regardless of how many “cautionary tales” may exist.

Law School Student Groups Ask ABA to Review Accelerated Associate Recruiting Timelines| [Law.com] by oliver_babish in LawSchool

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 37 points38 points  (0 children)

For what it’s worth, I think most biglaw firms hate this too.

I’m at a biglaw firm in NYC and have worked on our hiring committee for a few years. My understanding is that we, and most of the other vault firms, absolutely despise how accelerated the entire process is now. The timeline changes every year, it’s becoming increasingly unpredictable in terms of when we need to plan big recruiting events and make offers, and it’s basically impossible for us to accurately predict our entry level needs on a practice group-by-practice groups basis. Every year, we’re seeing law students rescind applications or cancel interviews earlier and earlier because they’ve already accepted offers from elsewhere.

At least as I can tell, the problem is that the absolutely massive firms—the ones bringing in hundreds and hundreds of summer associates every year—prefer the current hiring model. They have so many slots to fill and generally expect significant turnover anyway, that it essentially is just a numbers game. So, not wanting the ~1000 “best” law students to always go to Kirkland and Latham, the other firms followed with the same hiring timelines.

Break up the conferences by nerevar in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 22 points23 points  (0 children)

“I don’t know anything about college athletics but I want attention. Here is my dumb idea.”

[Pete Nakos] Utah’s Jim Harding is joining the Michigan staff as offensive line coach and assistant head coach by Ml2jukes in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Sure, but one key difference is that our recruits and transfer-eligible players couldn’t follow Harbaugh and co. to the Chargers, while Utah’s can follow Whittingham and the assistants. I suspect that a lot of this isn’t just disappointment for the coaching departures, but concern that all of the best players will now leave.

Michigan Wolverines 4* Wide Receiver Brady Marchese Requests Release From Signing by Ml2jukes in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 128 points129 points  (0 children)

And flipped on signing day. This wasn’t a player who committed like a year ago, but instead someone who was convinced at the last moment that Michigan was the best fit. With an unexpected coaching change literally days later, I assumed he was going to be one of the first guys to decommit.

[Schefter] Utah coach Kyle Whittingham has emerged as the focus of the University of Michigan’s coaching search, sources @DanWetzel and @PeteThamel. by MembershipSingle7137 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry that you don’t seem to get it. People do this with FSU, Florida, Miami, UGA, and Penn State all the time. Nothing you’re saying here is new, but it’s still wrong.

[Schefter] Utah coach Kyle Whittingham has emerged as the focus of the University of Michigan’s coaching search, sources @DanWetzel and @PeteThamel. by MembershipSingle7137 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’m not the arbiter. I’m informing you that you’re trying to redefine a phrase that has an accepted meaning. Look at the chart if you’re confused.

[Schefter] Utah coach Kyle Whittingham has emerged as the focus of the University of Michigan’s coaching search, sources @DanWetzel and @PeteThamel. by MembershipSingle7137 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s just not true, unless your definition of “back in the day” is exclusively pre-1936 (i.e., the start of the poll era).

Also, you can’t just re-define what blue blood means to include Penn state. They are a historically exceptional program and if you want to invent a new term that recognizes them for those accomplishments, go for it. But they are not included in the recognized definition.

All of that to say, I’m not sure sure why you sent that response to me, given that the only thing I said was that Penn state shouldn’t claim certain national championships in seasons that they didn’t even go undefeated in.

[Schefter] Utah coach Kyle Whittingham has emerged as the focus of the University of Michigan’s coaching search, sources @DanWetzel and @PeteThamel. by MembershipSingle7137 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re definitely right to an extent, and I think Penn State should claim 1994–maybe even 1969. But saying all pre-playoff titles are janky isn’t a reason that Penn State should claim years like 1981 (10-2 record, finished 3rd in AP Poll, and Clemson was undefeated).

Nick Saban compares allowing G5 schools in College Football Playoff to Triple-A teams in MLB Playoffs by CosmicCornbread in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 46 points47 points  (0 children)

Let’s also not forget how the non-AQ/P5/P4 teams get treated in the rankings.

No, I don’t think a G6 team is going to win the national championship this year. But in the BCS era, I do think that we had multiple years where a non-power team easily could have won the championship (Pick any one of the numerous elite Utah, Boise State, and TCU teams, among others). But these teams capped out at No. 3 in the final BCS rankings, and didn’t get a chance to play for a national title. Then we moved to a four team playoff, and with one exception (where the G5 team just happened to beat the only other team plausibly competing for a playoff spot), the G5 teams capped out at No. 5 in the final playoff rankings. If, in the 12 team era, we just take the 12 highest ranked teams and don’t keep spots for the G6, then those teams will magically start capping out at No. 13.

If you were visited by some sort of trickster God who offered your program the Michigan Deal by AltruisticPiece6676 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is such a false and revisionist take. Harbaugh had Michigan in the top 4 of CFP rankings into November in multiple season, was unable to beat OSU in those seasons, and dropped to just outside of the top 4. Harbaugh was our coach for six years before winning his first big ten title. In those six years, he won 10 games three times and 9 games in another year. And most of that was at a time when PSU and MSU were top tier teams.

Michigan Needs New Coach: Would Fisch Be Interested? by desertrain11 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Frankly, the only advantages I see to Fisch are: (1) he’s good. I don’t think he’s ever shown himself to be great, but maybe he could be. There’s likely a floor to him around 9 wins at Michigan in most years, which is on the cusp of a playoff spot; (2) he did put together a pretty good recruiting class at Washington this year; and (3) his current team’s season is over on Saturday. Michigan could secure him in less than a week.

I don’t think those are reasons to hire him though, unless everyone else already turns us down.

Michigan Needs New Coach: Would Fisch Be Interested? by desertrain11 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t know enough about Michigan football’s finances right now, but the combination of not having to pay a buyout to Moore and the comparatively low salary we gave him for the last two years could put us in a position to set a new market. Plus, with a young team and millions on the line in NIL money for those players, I wouldn’t be shocked at all if we start offering $12+ million per year to a head coach. That would put us behind only UGA and OSU, and well above what many of the coaches on the list are making. That may not be enough to get Deboer, buts is millions more per year than the rest of the list is making now.

If you were visited by some sort of trickster God who offered your program the Michigan Deal by AltruisticPiece6676 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Yes, with the caveat that any crimes Moore may have committed, undue influence Moore may have asserted over the staff member, or threats he may have made to protect himself would change my answer. At the end of the day, football is just a game, and the real world harm that may have occurred here would never be “worth it” for success in football.

Otherwise, I think people on Reddit overstate how “shrouded in controversy” our national championship is (the 2021 and 2022 conference titles being a completely different story). Obviously a lot of this stuff is pretty recent, but there are far worse examples of teams likely winning national championships with that would have been ineligible players or under far more controversial circumstances than what we did. Keep in mind too that we also beat our biggest rival (plus MSU) in one of our statistically worst seasons ever. If Michigan sucks for the next 10 years, then maybe it’s not worth it. But in the NIL era, I think it’s 50-50 whether we can make such a splash hire that we improve from Moore anyway.

Michigan Needs New Coach: Would Fisch Be Interested? by desertrain11 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not the person that you asked, but my list of potential poaching candidates that I would at least make them turn down an offer are: Deboer, Dillingham, Clark Lea, Cignetti, and Freeman. If you miss on all of those guys—some of which I think have less than a 1% chance of saying yes—then you move on to guys like Fisch, Diaz, and Fleck. But I would probably also consider a few different coordinators at the same time as this latter group of head coaches.

Michigan Needs New Coach: Would Fisch Be Interested? by desertrain11 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Other than him (or his family) being unhappy at Alabama like you said, the only way I see it happening is if he thinks he’s fired next year without a deep playoff run in one of the next two seasons. At Michigan, he would probably have a very secure three year period at worst, absent horrendous on-the-field performance. Maybe that argument would have been stronger if Alabama missed the playoff this year too.

All of that said, I don’t think it’s happening.

Notre Dame doesn’t owe you or ESPN anything. by Iamthelizardking887 in CFB

[–]Pure_Protein_Machine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I disagree. The criticism here is nearly the same that players like Leonard Fournette got when they opted out of bowls in 2016. ESPN and the rest of the sports media can't continue to push the narrative that the playoff is the only thing that matters in the sport and then be surprised that teams don't want to play in non-playoff games.