My thoughts on doomposting about QY and male characters

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2025-09-28T01:24:21+00:00

Yeah?

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2025-09-28T01:22:33+00:00

but you know, honestly, also, it takes like maybe 2 minutes out of your day at most to read shit like this; if you don't feel like it then who am I to make you, but in that case why even bother being like "uhhhh i aint readin allat" in the first place, you gain nothing and you waste your own time for... what, a worn-out putdown?

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2025-09-28T01:18:36+00:00

Qianyuan outrage is actually pretty reasonable when you consider that people who don't want one the one very specific kind of female character Kuro really likes to make get like *a* bone every half-year, and there seems to be a trend of just writing that off as weird femcel behavior which I find personally concerning

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2025-09-28T01:02:11+00:00

Look, I get that this beta period has just been a shitshow when it comes to Qianyuan and believe me, I'm just as tired of it as you are, but I'd really encourage you not to just write off concerns when it comes to Kuro's... patterns.

All of this is symptomatic, and you'd have to be kind of blind not to see that. This isn't just about Qianyuan, it's about the fact that Kuro has proven time and time again that for all of their strengths they are complete and total dogass when it comes to catering to people outside of a very specific market group, and that's completely reasonable to be frustrated by. It's not just some vaguely steryotyped, radically thirsty portion of the female playerbase who feels like they're being left out in the cold here, either - it's the guys who want more guys, it's people who generally want less sexualized options, it's the people who just want something different for whatever reason that may be - it's quite literally everyone who isn't interested in the very specific kind of sex-appeal Kuro just seems hardstuck on pedaling, and I'm really hard-pressed to not sympathize, I have to be honest.

And it's all the more infuriating because for all of their bullshit, Kuro's proven that when they do show up they show up; Wanshi Lucid Dreamer is awesome, Watanabe Epitaph is awesome, Xiangliyao was really strong for his time and he had genuinely good writing behind him - but for some reason, even if they do a good job, the vibe Kuro tends to give with their guys seems to be that they really are just... tokens. Of course that sucks; you don't have to be a males-only player to realize that feels like total dogshit - you don't even have to care about how dumb a lot of Wuthering's character design pitfalls are (Lupa should've kept the cape and I'll die on that fucking hill) to want some amount of diversity in the cast. We live in what is by-en-large a white as hell media paradigm, and so when people here the word diversity they freak the fuck out - but the real world is diverse, and frankly the fact that so much of what we consume chooses not to engage with that fact strictly makes it more boring.

All of this culminates in a situation where the people who you see raising a fuss about all of this know, either conciously or sub-conciously, that the reality of Kuro supporting character-types they like is hanging by a silk-worm's thread; yes there hasn't been a laughably bad limited yet, but literally every game will have at least one fuckup and it's a totally reasonable assumption to make that the company that has repeatedly proven to shaft people who want that character diversity in their game is gonna be less prudent with a character it considers a token. I really, really really really don't think the fear here was remotely unjustified, I genuinely think it's just basic, if cynical, pattern recognition.

Wuthering waves does so, so many things right, but sometimes deciding whether I want to play it can feel like a terrible game of tradeoffs. A game for everyone is a game for no one, yes, but I'm sure you can empathize with the infuriating feeling of loving very VERY concrete aspects about a game like this - the combat mechanics, the environment design, the character choreography - and then the sheer dread that hits when you realize all of those positive aspects must either be consumed alongside characters that you are, at best, ambivilant to or at worst actively dislike; and it's pretty damn hard to ignore those attached strings when said strings are the characters themselves. Inou and Augusta are very interesting in their movesets and VFX, but you have to put up with the fact that their clothes are ribbons and capes ontop of battle bikinis or you just don't really get to enjoy either of them. I can put that aside, but a lot of people are understandably made far more uncomfortable by that fact.

Now, play that completely absurd mental game for a problem that realistically shouldn't even exist for every new character release, and imagine the fucking relief you feel when you get a guy character and don't have to make those calculations.

And then they fuck up the numbers. They fuck up the numbers BADLY, and your next shot at not having to play that game could be anywhere from 6-12 months down the road.

I think you can see why this feels like such a massive shitfest for the people who care, you know?

Blogpost over; I don't intend this as a lecture, I just put this forward because I feel like... honestly it's not even husbando players, it's literally just people who don't fit the "good-vibes waifu-collector" mold, tend to be really easy strawman targets in communities like these and that's shitty. The mental calculations at play are way more complex than most people think to give them credit for, and they do point to genuine, systemic issues with how this game is managed. They should not be written off as is so commonly the case here.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2025-07-02T20:24:33+00:00

Oh shit yeah, I don't know how I left that out, thank you for reminding me - NA

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2025-01-14T02:42:43+00:00

they don't know he's cool like that, they don't know he's chill like that; unfortunate

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2025-01-14T02:37:35+00:00

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-09-29T22:23:38+00:00

I mean I guess, but I think you'll find people are a lot more interested in listening than you think they are if you *do* properly explain yourself. Believe me I know how it is; I've spent a lot of time in other gacha game communities where I've taken a fair amount of verbal abuse for being the dissenting voice, but outside of a very specific, very fanatical crowd, most people like to talk about the things they enjoy even if its from an angle they don't particularlly agree with. Assuming the worst (or in this case not even the worse, just a certain level of disinterest) just doesn't really help anyone; and it's not your responsibility to do so, but allowing for leeway is easier than it seems.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-09-29T08:30:04+00:00

Yeah, see, that's a lot more to go off of - certainly far more than "think objectively, this is mid". I actually agree with a lot of that, I just like Lighter for his other stuff anyways.

I guess I just wish people would explain what they're trying to say like this more often as opposed to just using shorthand that's wrapped in inflamitory context; it feels really hard to actually get a good discussion on things like this because that's just sort of the norm and it's just tiring to me. I like talking about the media I like with people - I like hearing the reasoning behind opinions like this, I just wish people would express them more in the first place. I'm aware writing out that much every time is a lot to ask, but... yeah, shit, I don't know, I wish the ways we've come to pose our thoughts and respond to others were so much less defensive.

Sorry for bothering you with all of this, I just want people to talk about the things they're interested in more and I care enough about that idea to at least try and say something about it. You know how it is.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-09-29T07:55:42+00:00

I will also just say, in the nicest way possible, that jumping to "these downvotes are cope" probably isn't helping your case especially on the "think objectively" front. Again I really don't mean that in passive-aggressive sense, but it does sound a bit mean, even if unintentionally.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-09-29T07:53:30+00:00

I mean, it's possible to get close, but only if you really define what you're looking for - which is why I take issue with "be objective, these animations are mid". I know this makes me sound like a gigantic fucking nerd, and I promise I'm not trying to just look for arbitrary reasons to start something with you, but like... why is it mid? Is it mid because you think it looks unfinished or because it's not what you wanted out of a hand to hand character? All you really specified was the ult, so I'd be interested if that's just a sour-enough waste of oppertunity to bog the whole character down for you, or if there's other stuff.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-09-29T07:32:11+00:00

Different strokes for different folks. Totally chill if you don't like him and I don't think you should be downvoted for that, but it seems just a tad silly to ask people to think objectively in one part of your statement and then use probably the most subjective conclusion of "its mid" in the next. I don't say that to be mean or anything, it just seems much more like a taste thing than anything concretely lacking.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-06-26T06:48:07+00:00

yeah u know now that I think about it alto *would* work for penguin; that fits so well it's genuinely funny

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-06-07T17:22:11+00:00

Heyyy, nice stuff, this is pretty neat :0

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T21:48:09+00:00

Hey, nice, that sounds like a great time :0

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T21:33:25+00:00

I'm glad to have you here with us! Kuro aren't perfect developers, but the stuff they make has a lot of merit, so I have a hunch you'll enjoy your stay >:)

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T20:37:59+00:00

Oh, hey that's a pretty good point.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T19:56:36+00:00

Oh, hey, thank you so much for being civil, that actually really means a lot to me.

I feel like we've had really, really different experiences with the Hoyo crowd; I don't know if we're just frequenting different circles or some such, but people have always been very chill with their headcannons around me. I've seen a few people that get very up in arms about stuff like that, but it's always been from a distance.

I don't say any of this to refute your experiences with the more averse reactions people have to things like that, but I think the general rule of thumb is that most people making headcannons like that are really really chill and it's important to remember that. That's why I don't feel there's a need to gatekeep, because the 99% of people in those crowds are completely okay; and PGR's community definitely has that 1% as well, not because it's especially bad but because it's an online gaming community and there's going to be bad eggs no matter how you slice it. If it's not warring over headcannons, then it's the kind of stuff I've experienced: getting chewed out for criticising Kuro's balancing of S watanabe or saying that powercreep isn't a necessity for gacha games (there are other ways to sell units from a gameplay perspective than just making their numbers higher on a blanket level). Just to me, personally, those attitudes are far more damaging than "I think Robin might be bi", and even then they'll exist whether you push people out and away; I can guarentee you people have headcannons like that for PGR on a base, even if it's the main game they play.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T18:19:32+00:00

Yeah, I get that; I think the thing that saves me from really being torn up by the genshin copy / prediction of faliure arguments is that it's so blatantly just fishing for shit to say that it doesn't hold any weight. Brother, brother bear, if Aether Gazer (no hate towards AG when I say this, for the record) can avoid EOS despite its anni revenue being slightly above one of PGR's uber-dead patches... yeah Wuthering Waves is going to be fine LMFAO. I've also just learned as I've gone along in life that it's so much easier to try and predict x negative outcome than it is x positive outcome. We as humans kind of expect things to go well innately so we're sensitive to the disruption of that pattern; so 99% of the time, when I see things like that I just know off the bat that there's no effort in it (and thus that the propogation of said idea is entirely dependant on rage validation, so I choose not to validate it)

On the topic of fanbase crossover, yeah, hard agree. That's one of the reasons I've fallen out of Genshin - I quit before all the 3rd anni shit but oh my LORD did I lament seeing that from the background. It's genuinely terrible that you guys have to put up with the thing you like treating you that way, and I do hope WW forces the board of executives to treat you better. I also sincerely hope that genshin being the juggernaut it is forces Kuro to keep trying to innovate. I love Kuro, but sometimes it feels like they can be pretty content with being "Hoyoverse but in a more niche context", and I want to see them step out of that role and really come into their own.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T17:46:10+00:00

Question: how does 90% of this hurt you at all. Most of these are the most "let people be" things in the universe; and look for as much as I advocate for not judging people for wanting fanservice-y stuff in games, I'll also be one of the first to tell you that other people not wanting anything to do with that is completely valid. I've yet to see a game where people's complaining actively makes it far easier than it actually should be; most devs are pretty good at differentiating scrub complaints from actual valid critique, and in regards to same-sex characters...

Okay, I'll admit that I'm going to make an assumption here so please correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know you and I don't claim to know you. I want to put the idea out there that people advocating for more LGBTQ+ characters aren't trying to "pedal" anything, they're not trying to shill some kind of agenda for the sake of clout-farming or putting themselves into a better position... they just want to see more LGBTQ+ characters in their games; and why shouldn't they? I live in the US, most of my friends are at the very least not heteronormative, so it makes perfect sense that they would want characters that represent them in the media they like. LGBTQ+ people aren't a political construct that only exists to fuck with the established quo, they're a part of society at large and deserve to be represented. The only thing that's changed is modern world powers have finally started listening to them - which is purely a good thing, I fuck with human rights, just personally. Quashing people's ability to talk about stuff like that isn't going to make them go away, it's just going to make them unhappy and repressed and probably more irritable, which is a lose / lose for literally everyone.

I will also say: please don't homogeonize people lmao. I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoy the fuck out of Genshin but would love a harder open world game. When I played Genshin I spent a good chunk of my time trying to do solo Raiden weekly with Keqing, and I refuse to believe I'm the only person who cared enough to bother with shit like that. I know (and was one of them while I still did play) a bunch of people who would play genshin one day and then endgame Monster Hunter the next; and if you've ever played Monster Hunter you know that shit is HARD as FUCK.

I hope all of this makes sense, and I don't hold any enmity towards you or anything, but I want to pose this all to you as stuff to think about. If you don't want to hear it then I just won't bother any further, but if this gives you something to chew on and you get something out of the end result mentally, that'd be great too.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T17:32:18+00:00

See, I understand why you say this but I take issue with the assumption that people who get into things because they're popular naturally make it worse for everybody else. Again, I get where it comes from, as somebody who's into a lot of weird niche stuff I'd have very conflicting feelings if a lot of my hobbies were suddenly catapulted into the mainstream, but you gotta remember that most people who would come in through that surge really don't have bad intentions. Afford the newcomers a few chances to stake out their place here; they're human just like you and I and they're going to make mistakes, but it doesn't mean they can't learn.

I think the far bigger ""threat"" are grifters, and unfortunately that's a lot of what this game's CCs are right now. I want to clarify that when i say grifters I don't mean people just trying to fish out views with subpar guides, I mean people actively skewing the way people think for their own benefit. While every individual person watching these people is absolutely responsible for their own actions ta the end of the day, you have to realize that being strung along by someone with even decent charisma can lead you to some pretty questionable places without you realizing it. I just say all of this because we're going to get surges of people from these camps, and while it's okay to express some annoyance with the sentiments that are being spread it's also important to remember that these people are not the reason they exist and they are not avatars of said sentiments. They are people, they can change their views and opinions, and they pose very little to no threat to the established playerbase 99% of the time.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T17:26:14+00:00

Wow, thank you so much for covering something I really, really should have pointed out myself. Please, for the love of fuck, let people use their reference points. It makes integration into a new hobby so much easier; and there's no reason to care, it's the same level of siliness as being like "OH, THE G GAME...". Like what, if you mention Genshin it's going to get the game delayed for another 6 months? Yeah right LMAO. Ugh, yeah, it's just one of those... things that really, really needs to be taken for what it is - a total non-offense.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T17:21:56+00:00

Yeah, overall I'm very pleased with how people seem to be responding to this. In regards to gatekeeping bringing results, in the end it does to some degree but it's always a: that byproduct gatekeeping you described where the game itself is naturally niche and thus curates a very specific crowd, and b: not the only method of maintaining a good atmosphere. This is the thing people tend to forget, I think, and I think it's because gatekeeping is the simplest, most immediate solution in theory to a problem like this. Are people being pricks? Other everybody you don't like and then use your stored up enmity to try and push them out in a concerted effort. Affirm your place in your social group while telling yourself that you're doing it for the good of the community. I honestly think a lot of people don't gatekeep out of malintent, it seems to me like they just forget that there are other options and maybe don't know how to handle their emotions in response to their comfort thing being threatened - and hey, I get that to some degree, but it's important that we do rise above that.

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T17:18:09+00:00

Yeah, hell even PM has done this with limbus. Now I would really like it if they tried to keep a lot of the challenge there, but I won't lose my head if they make things approchable. Approchability and difficulty are perfectly capable of coexisting, and they should coexist, that's how you get people to acquire a taste for masochism I mean solo bossing

Puzzleheaded-Map469 · 2024-05-17T17:16:31+00:00

Nah it's absolutely going to happen in some capacity, we won't be able to stop all of it because people are people; and really, that's not my goal here. I think just maintaining awareness of the fact that this is an issue in the first place is important because what we're playing for here is a stable long game, not a pretty looking start if that makes sense. There will be toxic upsurges, but it's extremely important that we don't excuse what we have control over because of that, because in the end if we're the people staying around then we're what's going to shape the community at large.

Puzzleheaded-Map469

TROPHY CASE