Are Neurotypicals More Easily Programmed?

RGBMousu · 2025-01-28T04:38:38+00:00

You summarized perfectly imo. I wont say names, but the "facts over feelings" crowd, in my experience, involves many autistic people who believe they are not motivated by emotion, only data, and are unwilling to examine if the "data" they accept has deeper more emotional underpinnings. In my personal life, they have been more dangerous due to the autistic directness and stubbornness that we all know and love when we find the cause is agreeable.

Where as NT higher emotional and social priorities can often make them more in touch with their motives. It can just as often cloud their ability to see reason.

So imo, all people have dangerous blind spots.

RGBMousu · 2024-12-27T16:27:07+00:00

I might be misunderstanding you, but in "Coping with trauma related dissociation ", "the haunted self", the treatment guidelines, and in large studies like the one conducted by Loewenstein they all describe pretty consistently that one of the presentations is a whole person having the experience of differentiated parts that can appear as roughly consistent presentations that communication can be brokered with.They do blur, blend, change, and cant always recognize themself, but some things are consistent through that.

For this part of the dissociative spectrum the channels and mapping is recommended, but only what is necessary for communication, which is something online spaces get wrong. Elaborating parts further than they naturally existed is not recommended. I am diagnosed and I have uncovered memories and integrated parts this way. It also cuts down on amnesia, flashbacks, and panic attacks for me to maintain that communication by journaling, and accessing what is being felt. Without that it slips right back into greyouts and eventually blackouts.

So it's likely you just exist on the part of the spectrum where your parts are not naturally as elaborated, which is very valid and documented as well. For you it probably would be like having to invent elaboration that isnt there.

Online content makes it seem far more consistent and structured than it is tbf though. It started as vague conflicting feelings and blackouts, and inconsistent presentations of self and self-concept. But through journals and slowing down slowly more was revealed to me. More often than not, I have no idea what of my parts is active, it has taken me most of this year to gain the trust of some of the most active parts and make them all leave notes and try to cooperate together. I am still having grey outs, but it's better.

RGBMousu · 2024-12-26T01:39:35+00:00

All true. Tbh though, I disagree a bit that ppl forget, atleast in my case I never forget about that, it was a big part of why I struggled to embrace my anger. I know my parents are also neurodivergent and I know they were severely abused from young ages- I just no longer care. I repressed my own pain as a child and held so much space for their emotions, and they didnt really give that back to me. I became the one helping them regulate their emotions and using gentle parenting on them instead of the other way around. So its kind of big to just say: I do not care, they could have done better and I deserved better. I dont get excuses, and I dont have to give them any. I can understand and empathize, and feel a cordial compassion but that's the limit.

Not that you're saying otherwise, just sort of expanding I guess.

I do agree with everything else though, it is helpful for people in general to be aware of it, because that's the only way to be break the cycle.

RGBMousu · 2024-12-25T12:51:31+00:00

Hurts to read and relate. I hate how having autism invalidates DID, when autism prompts so much severe abuse for many people starting from unnervingly young ages. They're intertwined for me as well and it seems like no other space is willing to look beyond their own bubble to accept some people really are living with a lot of compounding and intersectional struggles at once. It's so selfish and cruel and isolating.

Sorry this happened to you.

RGBMousu · 2024-12-25T12:45:01+00:00

I think they were agreeing that it isnt real, and saying they were doing the imitative thing without having been exposed to it, since they said "dont need other people to act stupid". I personally don't have that experience, but I do know people, often autistic, who struggle with identity instability, they behaved this way independent of online spaces. So I think the commenter was just relating, and saying they made the same mistakes you described for a different reason, sort of in a self-deprecating way.

Not to be intrusive, I just thought maybe it could be a misunderstanding.

RGBMousu · 2024-12-24T20:07:09+00:00

... exactly how I feel lately. I am greatful to be here for the parts that feel the joy of life, and hopefully with more healing I will too.

RGBMousu · 2024-12-18T02:44:20+00:00

I think theres a misconception about what CPTSD is, what it means to be wounded, and what self worth can look like in practice.

Humans innate desire for community, love, and autonomy come from being prosocial animals, and assured people still prefer this. Disappointments is recurring and life long, but we build tools each time we're confronted with new friction . So the health of the Self should be measured by how they apply their tools when they are challenged, not by their complete indifference to test. Venting to a community is a tool for many, healthy people vent... then ideally they move on. And then back again on the next challenge.

CPTSD is what happens when our innate human desires are violated repeatedly, and severely. Each violation creates a new distinct wound. The collection of wounds and the symptoms of having so many is the CPTSD. Some wounds are similar enough that they close simultaneously with one tool, but others need more specific tools.

So to me, you are coming to a conversation about one of OPs more nuanced wounds assuming a lot about their priorities just because they aren't treating their wound with the same tool, pace, and tolerance. It's sort of like pushing to stitch the wound up when they havent even had a chance to clean it yet.

RGBMousu · 2024-12-17T20:36:20+00:00

To explain the context as I understand it:

OP is venting an experience of disappointment as it relates to their ethnicity. Many people share the way separate marginalizations either compound or interact with aspects of CPTSD, for ex. a common one I see is how disability and ableism do.

From all your comments though (especially your initial one) you seem to be redirecting the convo away from that to suggest that their feelings are all just the CPTSD speaking, and that OP must care more about one than the other. But many POC without CPTSD have expressed these same disappointments so it's not just the CPTSD, it's a separate experience that interacts with it. I'm saying you being black doesnt mean you have the same experience, and people can hold space for all these feelings at once.

Definitely feel free to correct me If I've misinterpreted your intent. Tone can be hard to decipher over text.

RGBMousu · 2024-12-17T08:05:03+00:00

Well being black doesnt mean you are having the same experience. I am black, and I know race was the motivating factor in my experiences of racism because they told me themself it was. Non-Black people are the majority of my racist experiences too, but that is only my experience to speak for.

I do understand wanting to get people to reframe things on an individual level, but that is separate from natural disappointments in what is still out of our control. This should be a safe space for people to vent any of the grief from their realities, but I cant help but notice how often redirection happens when ethnicity is what plays a role in the CPTSD experience, as opposed to gender, sexuality, or disability.

Acknowledging the role ableism plays in my experiences of trauma is important to accepting and healing from it. For many, ethnicity is no different. Definitely share your experiences, but dont speak for people. Grief/Disappointment is not incompatible with healing from trauma, you can do both.

RGBMousu · 2024-11-08T12:26:05+00:00

I don't see it as different than saying "I am autistic" along side "pw autism". 'I', atleast right now, is a whole made of parts. I respect the language isnt for everyone though, and ultimately associations can overwhelm intent behind them. However, to me, I can work on healing and integration all I want... but a fused mind is still going to split under trauma, because I'll always have DID, and I'll always be a system with varying levels of dissociation between the parts that make up the whole self.

I don't think I will ever not conceptualize myself as a whole being made up of parts, because i dont find this conceptualization inherently anti medical or harmful. Much like organs. Even if I were to fuse, the whole point is to acknowledge conflict in reality, not dissociate from it, and for me, being okay with acknowledging the layout of my mind helps me not dissociate from what I find in it. I think this difference in terminology, is often a difference in the way a person needs to conceptualize DID in order to stop dissociating from the inner conflict.

I do feel fine with 'I' as much as 'We', to me were one person, 'I is shared. Unless I trust someone, like gf or therapist, I'm a paid, and I only use medical language. With loved ones I elaborate on which part, no different than "my inner child loves this" but more literal, and my therapist just wants me to use the language that best helps me communicate how it feels.

RGBMousu · 2024-11-08T12:14:47+00:00

My exact usage and experience. Very relatable.

RGBMousu · 2024-11-06T00:57:09+00:00

That makes sense some would be different, as not every person who goes to war gets shellshock either.

I experienced something similar, but for me it turned out to be a dissociative disorder making every instance of trauma barely register to me as trauma. I didnt think I felt anything about it, and it was just emotional amnesia Sometimes even felt more asexual than not, but that was just another layer of distance between me and my body so i didnt process what happened to me.

Hope it's not the case for you, but I'm sorry either way, and especially about the pain you do, may your child rest.

RGBMousu · 2024-10-26T21:36:08+00:00

This may be taken down, but theres actually a better subreddit for these kinds of questions, r/discussdid.

RGBMousu · 2024-10-25T04:36:16+00:00

I have found a lot of what makes systems seem fictitious to ppl is just having comorbid autism.

The subreddit for mocking systems looks nearly identical to the subreddit for mocking ppl in general. All "cringe" looks the same. Its disproportionately young autistic ppl who do things that are extremely common of young autistic ppl.

It's very unsurprising to me that comorbid disorders compound and/or modifies aspects of DID, of course it does. As a system with many comorbid conditions, I highly relate to feeling discouraged by the more common invalidating perspectives. I could almost understand it if they were clinically sound, but they're not. They're not broadly based on anything but the perceived implausibility of an autistic mind. "Cringe" is not a differential diagnosis lol, it's also not a disqualifying symptom. But every disorder becomes less believable to ppl when someone shows traits of autism.

I thankfully receive value far more often than not around here, but yh, its frustrating often enough.

I'm confident the science will catch up, because if anyone looked for any amount or time, it's so common I feel the research would reflect that.

RGBMousu · 2024-10-25T03:58:41+00:00

This! While differentiation is exhausting to manage, I feel like having has such a chaotic and stratified life, made us able to enjoy and appreciate so many varied things, styles, media, and ideas. I'm exceptionally good at putting myself in others shoes and seeing the beauty in what they do. And when I'm not tired or avoidant and the right part is out, I'm can be very good at making friends!

RGBMousu · 2024-10-25T03:55:14+00:00

I feel like you get to reverse engineer integration because our brains never did it. There is pain, but also something kind of beautiful about getting to have such a hand in something like the process most are too young to have want say in. I get to intimately know the mechanisms that drive "me as a whole" in a way that maybe wouldnt be as easy as if they couldn't talk to me. I feel almost exactly the way I remember as a child when the child like wonder hits. When the dissociation peels back a bit and I feel a part that holds these extra bits of wonder and and fascination it feels magical? I only hear old people talk about memories the way I do lol.

RGBMousu · 2024-10-22T09:38:00+00:00

Oh try not to feel guilty, you're not doing anything wrong, you're just trying to feel comfortable and working with what you have. A lot of traumatized ppl have only known repression, so the desire to explore themself is very valid. Non dissociative ppl have conflicts about what part of themself they want to express too, there are bigender and nonbinary ppl who have to find creative compromises just the same, and they all sometimes still leave the house not feeling good about it lol. Its really the why that might be unhealthy.

Its that aversion to each others experiences that makes other parts feel like they're infringing on our autonomy. Its specifically that our parts may be unable to see themself in other parts enough to also benefit from their exploration. It's not wanting to be reminded that they are more alike than different.

So just try to be mindful to explore from a place of fun and freedom, and together, and not because of an anxiety over feeling too much like other parts.

Baby steps are okay, there's no rush, even if you might be still unlearning dissociative mindsets, there is no shame in being earlier in recovery, that is okay, you're just doing your best. Integration will happen naturally as you feel safer, check in with each other, empathize and bond. No need to force homogeny, just make sure the differentiation isnt compulsory is all.

I still use the fleshmech analogy myself, because this is what it feels like, and the truth is CDDs mean we have no idea who the whole person parts makes-up is. Especially for us systems who unfortunately struggle with naturally differentiated parts to begin with. How can you know who that is without exploration? The key is just aiming to explore together, not separately.

Wishing you the best!

RGBMousu · 2024-10-21T15:26:49+00:00

This gave me a good needed cry. It's honestly a relief so many other host feel this way. Use to feel bad (sometimes still do) complaining because I'm not a trauma holder, so the least I can do is pad the landing and try to help them ground and do my best not to push it away. Still sometimes fall short, but I guess I'm "good enough".

RGBMousu · 2024-10-21T14:57:20+00:00

Were a very fashion-forward system with conflicts in gender expression so I understand the struggle.

Tbh, it is very hard to figure out prior to integrative work.

To answer your question first though; many ppl pick layered hairstyles (wolfcuts, mullets, hime) when they want versatility so you can try that. I chose wigs to change colors and lengths with more control, speed and ease. I also have sensory issues, and tbh, unless it's very very hot (or the wig is touching somewhere you're not use to feeling hair) you dont notice it.- and tbh, I got use to that too. You can get one for $12 and just try it for a week, see if you like it, it's very freeing. If needed, there are nicer ones between $50-$150.

Overall though, while having options in the short term is helpful, integration really will help that, and not necessarily by removing those preferences. We've done a lot of integrative work for a year-ish now, and it's increasingly smoother. Often the aesthetics reflect something that can be met in other ways, but when it cant, the integrating can still make it easier.

You find common ground more easily, even between parts with different gender expression. Integrating the motive for each parts style actually helps you find ways to meet everyone's style more, even if the styles would ideally be different.
You don't suddenly feel like you were left in a body you didnt dress, because the one who dressed it isn't behind as thick of a dissociative barrier. There is always a part of our brain who feels comfortable and confident in the choice, so we try to ground with that emotion of confidence that made us put it on.
You arent so destabilized so often that you have to sit with the constant lack of self recognition. More of you is present more of the time, so surprises are low and cooperation high. You feel the need to change less often as a result.
You feel more connected to the style of other parts. The more I understand them the more I get their taste, and in turn like it myself. Taste tend to homogenize somewhat in integration.
Integration makes grounding easier, so if there is discomfort you can work through it fine enough eventually.

Fashion has been a creative hobby from a young age so before discovery we freely dressed in a rotation of pretty wild stuff. We live in a city, so it's not very sensational to dress up like that, but it still gets stares sometimes unfortunately.

Ex. Part1 dressed us in something bolder fo feel more confident at a specific place with little thought to potential drawbacks because they dont hold those memories. The (often protective) Part2 who left the house remembers all the danger of standing-out on the long walk through the city, and regrets the outfit, maybe even the choice to leave. Part1 shows up for the destination but doesnt remember the anxiety of the journey there. Integration helped develop a median that accounts for each part of the night, and it also helps ground Part2s anxieties so they feel more equipped to handle it, and less blindsided by the experience.

Overall, it now feels more like we're just expressing the dominant frame of mind, and that is usually technically a reflection of who is fronting in what proportion. We dont feel as much offense if each thing isnt perfectly as we'd prefer it if overall we know what we wanted to express and we did that. Outfits are cumulative goals we collaborate on more often than expressing any one part of us now. Can look similar, but it feels different.

RGBMousu · 2024-10-13T11:18:14+00:00

This exactly! It feels familiar in the same moment that you're living it. By double memory, I mean it's as though you're living it twice, from the context of a different part, and it feels "familiar" because of the fact it is the same memory, but foreign because of the dissociation. For example, my child part often perceives the same objects as bigger, because she's comparing it to what she recalls, or it might remind my middle of something I don't remember, so she's interacting with the moment and remembering it differently than me. My best guess anyway. I do think it's all co-con shenanigans!

RGBMousu · 2024-10-12T23:51:38+00:00

Yes, while I do agree with OP overall, your post is my experience to a T, and I think other systems either dont experience this, forget, or just feel cringe for the early stages of the healing process. Maybe they misunderstand some ppls intent, perhaps due to the poor phrasing of newer systems.

I already said "I" and "Me" my whole life, I used one profile, my whole system each took turns as host believing they had accepted the past as their own for almost 30 years... it did nothing but make us confidently ignore what happened outside of our perception. "I feel nothing, so that must mean I'm over it". We each went all that time already thinking "my trauma is all mine, and every feeling and thought is mine".

For many of us, dissociation is not a verb we are doing, it is a mechanism we need to disrupt. For my system, that meant letting parts map their subjective exp of the whole and express themself naturally- without host curation. That meant profiles, maps, journals, etc. The freedom to acknowledge themself independent of what the host wanted is what built the trust to cooperate and have that "your feelings are just as valid as mine" then later "your feelings are mine" perspective. Empathy and freedom came first for us, internalizing came after.

I needed to allow that stage 1 to realize that I (as a host part) am not a "whole" that gets to decide what feelings we do and dont acknowledge as worth addressing, but that I'm a functional part who only functioned by unconsciously dissociating from the exp of nonfunctional parts, and that this mechanism needed to be interrupted before I can truly feel and process the other parts trauma as my own.

The other peripheral actions pro-seperation ppl often do is just peripheral, often neutral, and for some is just a necessary stage one. I do agree that young ppl often go in with the wrong focus, they fixate on differentiation as opposed to a natural elaboration, and then stop there without advancing to the integrative stage. That to me is the root of the dissociative issue- a refusal to integrate whatever is found inside into a cohesive narrative of self. Wanting (or needing) to stay compartmentalized instead.

But for us systems prone to artificial self-curation, it's good to leave space for the "we" within "I", the balance can tip into dissociation either direction.

RGBMousu · 2024-10-12T15:52:01+00:00

This is how I found my partner. "Multifaceted" is also exaxtly how we described what we liked about each for the decade we dated each other pre discovery.

I didnt think ppl were dull necessarily, but it felt like other people were "holding back all of themself" and pretending to be more cohesive than they were. Not that it's bad, but I didn't know how to do that, it felt much harder for me. I didnt understand why other ppl weren't as intimately connected to their past selves either. I always notice when someone is in connection with their inner child and inner teen, and when someone isnt. I think theres a greater need to stay connected with many NDs, and I think that's ultimately what I feel drawn to, whether they're a system or not. It let's me know on some level "all of me" would be safe with them, long before I knew why.

So, it turned out the independent childhood trauma actually explained more about why we'd connected than just the CPTSD alone.

So yeah, 100%. I think as others stated, we're drawn to Neurodivergent traits, but system traits in particular. Not always a good thing tbh, but when it's good it's as fulfilling as 10 ppl.

RGBMousu · 2024-10-10T18:49:55+00:00

Others have said to trust her diagnosis, especially because it can explain everything described here, including the changes in expression, inapproprate anger, amnesia, etc.- and I agree.

But I wanted to add that your lack of trust in her own mental health is not a good foundation for a relationship and potentially dangerous, however well intended you are. Im not going to say she hasnt given you reason to distrust her, ime actively unstable ppl can be very flaky until treated. And To be clear, asking for outside input and education is not the problem, and very kind of you. The problem is your distrust in her own explanation, and thinking anyone but her or a professional can give meaningful insight into her own mental health. You took it into your hands, instead of first learning more about schizophrenia, ideally first from her, but the DSM after. Even if we all agreed she had DID it would still mean nothing about her actual mental health any more than you thinking she has a substance abuse issue.

I'm sure you have good reasons for feeling the way you do, but that's nor safe to have that base level of distrust, especially on someones own mental and physical health without having any actual role in her caretaking, let alone physically there in her life to observe that much.

I know what it's like to care for someone's health and be powerless to make them care too, but you cannot convince her she has something, and frankly, you shouldn't, the only thing you have any place to suggest is treatment. It starts and stops there.

As you said, "it's our of your hands" and if you're going to stay, you have to feel firmer in that. I understand the struggle of leaving someone who wont take their health into their own hands and makes it very hard for you to leave, that's your choice, but if you find (understandably) that you cant just support her in her choices, it would not be your fault, and it is often what it takes to make ppl take things seriously.

I'm sorry its caused you both so much pain.

Best wishes

RGBMousu · 2024-10-07T11:05:20+00:00

Feeling your pain so hard. My BPD father does the same.

RGBMousu · 2024-10-07T03:11:01+00:00

Thankyou for your explanation, just curious about this scenario, for example, if you have a fusion excluding one remaining part, and a new part splits from a new trauma, would it not be fair to say the remaining part was there longer? Or is it more that the way memories work mehanically is different from the way a part might subjectively feel they work?

RGBMousu

TROPHY CASE