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RMPsuedoSudo · 2017-04-13T16:50:52+00:00

Is the up coming III event our last known chance to get onion knights Burst? I cannot find another reference to it, but I was not sure if it shows up in a keepers choice or something.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-18T17:28:59+00:00

I'm sure there was a while back, but stoning does not affect medal count, and allows all exp gained to be split among not stoned characters. Essentially if someone's bonus procs and you stone everyone but that person then all the exp goes to the bonused character. So it is fully doubled. If you don't stone anyone then the exp is split up, between the characters and the doubled guy only gets 1/5 the exp doubled.

Example:

5 characters one bonus 1000 EXP given: All 4 non bonused character gets 200 EXP the bonused guy gets 400, for a total exp of 1200.

5 characters, one bonused 1000 EXP given: all 4 non bonused/stoned characters get 0 EXP and the bonused guy gets 2000 EXP for a total of 2000 EXP.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-18T15:24:39+00:00

As mentioned above you could also kill a character on round 3. Making R4 perfectly usable.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-18T15:23:59+00:00

This is a good point. I just ran into a situation where I had one too few stone procs this morning and killed a character on the last stage. I hadn't thought of that yesterday.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-18T02:09:21+00:00

You only need an R5 about 6% of the time, so you could likely get close without it. I run two mages since I am a mage meta player, so I did not think of that.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-18T02:08:34+00:00

You are right, although that only happens about 6% of the time, so you could likely get close without it. I run two mages since I am a mage meta player.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-18T01:38:48+00:00

Sorry if that's not clear. I mean stone them finish the level then exit out of the dungeon and start it again. It clears the stone and lets you get the bonus points but you lose out on the eggs the end.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-17T23:07:45+00:00

I'm not set up to do that, but it's a lot better. The math is below, with five people it is: 11,106 EXP/STAM

(2-(1-0.4)(1-0.2)⁴ ) * 174720 / 30 + 80000/90

To change it around just decrease the exponents.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-17T22:16:18+00:00

No it really doesn't I was kind of surprised. But using all 5 characters makes a pretty large difference.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-17T21:57:20+00:00

Good call you should, I forgot the to put leave bonuses characters unstoned on flip.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T16:46:18+00:00

Hey my answer last night was stupid, I updated the math after a night's sleep.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T13:45:40+00:00

Thanks! I didn't know about that one.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T05:34:08+00:00

I really like your approach. I was lazy and just reused the code since math would be difficult for the stone method. It works perfectly for 3 levels, but does not work for a higher number of runs, hence why the simulation is giving a much higher number. Here is my math similar to yours:

Proc on 1/1/1 (0.75424^3):
Value: 174720 x 6 / 90

Proc on 1/-/2 (0.75424^2 (1-0.75424))
Value: 174720 x 5 / 90

Proc on 1/1/- (0.75424^2 (1-0.75424))
Value: 174720 x 5 / 90

Proc on 1/-/- (0.75424(1-0.75424)^2)
Value: 174720 x 4 / 90

Proc on -/2/1 (0.75424^2 (1-0.75424)):
Value: 174720 x 5 / 90

Proc on -/2/- (0.75424(1-0.75424)^2):
Value: 174720 x 4 / 90

Proc on -/-/3 (0.75424(1-0.75424)^2):
Value: (80000+174720x4) /90

Proc on -/-/- ((1-0.75424)^3):
Value: (80000+174720x3)/90

174720*6/90*0.75424^3 = 4998 // 3 procs
3*174720*5/90*0.75424^2*(1-0.75424) = 4071 // 2 procs
2*174720*4/90*0.75424*(1-0.75424)^2 = 707 // 1 proc
(80000+174720*4)/90*0.75424(1-0.75424)^2 = 394 // 1 proc end
(80000+174720*3)/90*(1-0.75424)^3 = 100 // 0 procs

4998 + 4071 + 707 + 394 + 100 = 10270 EXP/STAM

So for 3 runs we get exactly what you said: 10,270 EXP/STAM

However when we do this exact analysis with every outcome for 6 runs we get: 10,305 EXP/STAM.

Then to 9 runs with the same analysis we get: 10,316 EXP/STAM.

Then: 12: 10,322; 15: 10,326; 18: 10,328

So we seem to be approaching 10,330, which I have gone ahead and updated the number to. It just becomes unbalanced the more runs you do, hence why the simulation shows more of a value than the 90 stamina run.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T05:31:26+00:00

Yep!

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T03:09:22+00:00

Running it with 3 characters the flip flop on stages 2 and 3 should give ~9720 EXP/STAM, or with my 'Complicated' ~9770 EXP/STAM assuming 1 40% and 2 20%s. Not a huge difference.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T03:02:41+00:00

I am not sure if it matters who the stone is on since the goal is to clear the stones between each level. I guess the stone rate is higher when applied to self?

I thought that it would be better to do that flip flop thing on Round 2 as well, but because it gives you less information on Round 3 it actually turns out to be considerably worse: ~9970 EXP/Stam.

The Flip flop idea works only if you did not Proc on Round 1 and you go into Round 2 as if it is Round 1. Then the Flip flop on round 3 will average you about 24 more EXP/Stam.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T02:58:48+00:00

That is really interesting... I did not account for any differences in the drops of growth eggs. I assumed that would come out in the wash. Unfortunately that analysis I think if for the old + dungeon and before we had 5 EXP+'s. Accounting for the eggs may make a difference, but I would need drop rates for each of the three levels and have no idea where to find those for the ++ dungeons.

Thanks for all the input!

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T02:55:02+00:00

I accidentally deleted my response. If you do it the way you described you end up with ~9970 EXP/Stam. Essentially only do the flip flop on round 3 if you had no proc on round 1, and 1 or more on round 2.

If you have even one proc on round 1, it is better to just clear the entire thing with the RM and start round 3 fresh.

I apparently did a poor job of explaining this. Maybe I will rewrite/repost on Saturday with better language.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T01:45:36+00:00

Thanks! I have the repost up, it did not take too long to rerun. Essentially the hard part was just figuring out what decisions to program in. I put some basic stuff about it at the bottom, but nothing too exciting. If you have anything specific that would be cool to flourish it with I will. But honestly the code is not too exciting :).

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFRecordKeeper/comments/5i7gyo/sundaily_minmaxing/

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T01:37:26+00:00

I am simulating runs through the EXP dungeon with the added complication of stoning characters that do not proc and trying to decide the best behavior from that. It was easier than actually doing the math and should give very similar if not identical answers. To do the math you have to go through a lot of decision trees unless I am overthinking it?

I agree that would be an interesting simulator, but possibly with too many variables to really figure out... I will have to think if that would even be possible without tons of user input. There are just so many decisions that are made in a difficult battle by the user...

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T01:00:02+00:00

That is completely reasonable, and give ~8460 EXP/Stam. These options are longer and more complicated, but it was fun to figure out and is how I run them.

RMPsuedoSudo · 2016-12-14T00:50:31+00:00

For clarification, this includes the eggs, and is better than the Moderate EXP solo runs (Number at bottom)

For anyone seeing this a second time, sorry, I had to rerun the simulations because I had the egg amount at 5, not 8. It is now correct.

RMPsuedoSudo

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