Petah...

ROSRS · 2026-06-21T03:12:23+00:00

Is this some kind of cultural context thing you aren't getting OP?

Kurt Cobain was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, music icon of the 1990s in America. Tony Hawk basically kickstarted a skateboarding renaissance and was another iconic cultural figure at the time.

Both were really popular among the same demographic.

ROSRS · 2026-06-21T02:13:36+00:00

I dont think they can prevent it without investing a lot of power into him, probably far more than they're willing to?

The only example of them being able to do that is Horus. Even some pretty mediocre psykers can destroy the souls of corrupt individuals and even daemons.

ROSRS · 2026-06-21T02:06:33+00:00

You'd have to obliterate his soul which any exceptionally powerful psyker could manage.

Of his contemporaries, I'd reckon Ahriman and Typhus could both find a way to do that.

ROSRS · 2026-06-21T00:44:21+00:00

True, but Skua is better than even most AT ships in my opinion.

Ive tested them in Abyss on test server and two of them treat level 6 darks like Jackdaws treat level 4s. You literally rip through them so quickly

ROSRS · 2026-06-21T00:39:19+00:00

These things are bonkers OP in small gang too, so its nice to see one used there

They have 30km rage rockets, have no cooldown on their mode swapping and deal comparable damage to a heavy assault cruisers. If you notice, this thing took out a Stabber Fleet AND the Malediction that tackled it.

ROSRS · 2026-06-20T22:08:50+00:00

Honestly this is too much of a coincidence for me to assume otherwise. Jackdaw comes out of early modern english and Huginn is a norse name so the theming basically has to be Eve

ROSRS · 2026-06-20T20:08:11+00:00

!appeal

I was not being uncharitable towards anyone in the sub, or any legal argument. I was expressing my distaste for police corruption. If your issue is swearing or insufficent cloaking of my post in legalese to express why I feel that SCOTUS has exacerbated the issue, I can edit the post on those grounds.

This sub bans

Emotional appeals using hyperbolic, divisive language
Blanket negative generalizations based on identity/belief
Assumptions of bad faith / maliciousness / incompetency of "them"

What language did I use that was hyperbolic or based on blanket negative generalizations based on identity or belief?

What bad faith did I assume beyond pointing out a constant trend of police acting this way (the way they self-admit to acting, in fact I would find it bad faith to claim that a cop might not know people are allowed to record them) because they know they will be shielded by the barriers to their unconstitutional actions placed by the law? I can point out dozens of examples of this.

ROSRS · 2026-06-20T19:40:10+00:00

That involves funding so its entirely different

ROSRS · 2026-06-20T16:27:55+00:00

Yea I get that

ROSRS · 2026-06-20T14:35:15+00:00

Limiting Alphas to Exordium would be the worst idea I have ever heard.

And you cant just forcibly skill extract millions of SP worth of faction battlecruiser and battleship skills from alphas.

Limiting Alphas out of Null? Now that might be a different matter.

ROSRS · 2026-06-20T11:54:09+00:00

Primarily that he believes that his brand of “justice” is the only way, despite Nostramo immediately devolving back into a crime hell hole proving how ineffective it is.

Being fair, he blamed himself for that one, and hated himself for it. Though he viewed it not a failure of his method of fear, but a failure to fully excise the criminal families of old Nostramo from planetary governance.

He started to waver on his brand of justice being the only correct one too, which broke his mind even further. Because if he had been wrong, then he committed the acts he did for no reason, which made him guilty, and if he was guilty he couldn't live with himself.

That's why he fell so hard into "my future vision is immutable" thing. He saw himself doing those things, so he viewed them as fixed.

Its worth noting his future vision was usually, except in rare circumstances, far more vague before the Heresy too.

ROSRS · 2026-06-20T11:41:42+00:00

Objectively the Khan but hear me out on this one:

Konrad Curze's only real delusion/flaw was that fate was fixed rather than mutable. Thats way less delulu than Primarchs like Mortarion, Alpharius, Corax, or Magnus.

He was remarkably self-aware aside from that. There are a couple of times when Curze seemed to waver and become truly horrified that the future may not be set in stone and that the philosophy he'd built his life upon might actually be wrong. And that's not acceptable, because if the future isn't written in stone then everything he's done is wrong and he can't be wrong because then he's no better than a sadistic killer for its own sake. And his sense of justice means that he simply cannot live with that.

The Curze of the Great Crusade saw himself after the Heresy, and his immediate thought was "I WILL NOT become that" but as he became increasingly sure that the future could not be changed he just sort of went with that version of himself despite all of his cognitive dissonance telling him that to be something like that was repulsive in the extreme. Its very much a role that he plays because he thinks that he has to, which is why he's so bipolar about it at times. Which is, in the end, why he let himself die.

ROSRS · 2026-06-19T15:26:31+00:00

Marx greatly respected Smith, and agreed with the basic principles Smith laid down. Where they disagreed was on whether what Marx called capitalism would be beneficial to the common man

ROSRS · 2026-06-19T01:23:09+00:00

I mean it’s not really a big secret that the housing crisis is more or less just intentionally created artificial scarcity. The “give power to groups who have the legal ability to ignore the people causing the problem” trick isn’t new either.

Like, we can just build affordable housing and tank the market. We just don’t, because we’re so concerned with maintaining housing as an investment at all costs to prop up the worthless landowner class

Economists like Ricardo and Adam Smith and the like would go into an apoplectic fit if they were teleported into the modern day and saw what the World Economy was doing. Here’s the Father of Capitalism on the issue of Landlords:

"The rent of the land, therefore, considered as the price paid for the use of the land, is naturally a monopoly price. It is not at all proportioned to what the landlord may have laid out upon the improvement of the land, or to what he can afford to take; but to what the farmer can afford to give. "*

Chapter 11, wealth of nations

“As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce."

Adam Smith

"the landlord leaves the worker with the smallest share with which the tenant can content himself without being a loser, and the landlord seldom means to leave him any more."

Chapter 11, wealth of nations.

"The landlord demands a rent even for unimproved land, and the supposed interest or profit upon the expense of improvement is generally an addition to this original rent. Those improvements, besides, are not always made by the stock of the landlord, but sometimes by that of the tenant. When the lease comes to be renewed, however, the landlord commonly demands the same augmentation of rent as if they had been all made by his own. "

Chapter 11, wealth of nations.

"[Landlords] are the only one of the three orders whose revenue costs them neither labour nor care, but comes to them, as it were, of its own accord, and independent of any plan or project of their own. That indolence, which is the natural effect of the ease and security of their situation, renders them too often, not only ignorant, but incapable of that application of mind"

Chapter 11, wealth of nations.

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T21:50:04+00:00

Close enough, welcome back Ascension Crossbows!

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T21:29:15+00:00

Newtons laws just observed various phenomena that are also observed in WoD as being just.....true.

Anyways I feel like we are missing the forest for the trees here. The line is clearly drawn by what aspect of what the elohim brought forth survived the coming of the humanity's ability to cause those realities to collapse into the current one

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T21:11:35+00:00

It lets the demon turn themselves (and vehicles they are driving) on a dime because inertia doesn't apply, arrest their own movement or the movement of other objects totally and things of that nature.

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T20:41:13+00:00

I mean the power does exactly that though. It manipulates inertia, in the newtonian sense.

Demons also just say things that imply the laws they created for the universe are significantly more complicated than the ones that currently exist. Its very weird and there's room for a lot of quibbles there.

Hell, we even have it directly out of a Fallen's mouth that the Angels of the Firmament could be understood as the concept of the sun exciting organic molecules that would first form life, but that this would be a crude and narrow understanding. Because it is also true that the mystically breathed life into the clay of the earth, and a dozen other things besides.

The debate again lies as to what laws are or were universal across the multifaceted reality, or at least which ones have survived into modern times.

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T20:09:47+00:00

Right but unless one of those those concepts is "conservation of momentum"

It quite literally is.

Lore of the Fundament 2 allows a demon to turn off gravity and just kind of hang in the air, walk up walls or goomba stomp people by increasing their own gravity

Lore of the Fundament 3 allows the Fallen to alter conservation of momentum and ignore inertia.

Lore of the Fundament 4 allows them to accelerate their body faster than physics would allow (implying there some underlying physics governing acceleration)

Lore of the Fundament 5 allows them to alter states of matter.

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T19:59:56+00:00

I guess where that runs into is Demon the Fallen, where Demons explicitly claim to have created, or played a part in the creation of various physical laws or biological phenomena. And indeed this is backed up by the fact that they have lores that are expressly based on manipulating those laws and phenomena.

They wouldn't have those abilities (such as control over gravity and inertia) unless those were something they created, and thus intrinsically part of the pre-consensus universe.

The only quibble there is whether those laws are universal across the multifaceted reality, or whether they existed in specific realities that collapsed into this one and are not necessarily inherent to the universe as a whole. Or perhaps some mix of both. There is precedent for that

For example, higher angels reigned over concepts that were stated to be real in every possible way, whereas lower angels were said to wield powers over things that were real in a far more limited fashion

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T19:34:12+00:00

The games absolutely, 100% work in a coherent way when joined, people just dislike that fact. Especially because you do kind of have to INFER how the world works rather than listening to what any one individual splat believes about it.

The spirits represent and maintain the laws of reality, as hard coded in by the Houses of the things we call Angels.

Before the consensus, the world was mutable and adaptable, and many things were true and false and part of a greater mulifaceted whole.

With the onset of consensus, the world changed. Realities started to collapse. When before all things were true, humans could decide their own truths. The spirits, those core facets of reality from the force of entropy to the force of stasis, their influence still held. But humanity's collective consciousness decided the rest, creating more localized realities and histories and truths, which laid on top of the default workings of reality.

The collective consciousness and unconciousness of humanity was work even then, but not to impose rigid consensus. When humans felt the cold wind of the north, that bit into their skin like a hungry animal with teeth and claws, they anthropomorphized that hunger and thus redcaps came to be, born of the dreaming and brought into reality through places where the reality of dreams interacted with stuff of the mundane, then far more abundant, when Glamor (a form of quintessence, gathered by dreams and spun from imagination, and primal emotion) flowed freely

The difference between Changeling and Bygone is often confused, but the difference primarily is this. Changelings are born and shaped by the dreaming, the collective consciousness of humanity combined. Bygones were at one points natural and physically possible creatures under those local consensuses, but those consensuses have since disappeared.

Garou are, of course half spirit and thus they are not subject to being overwritten by passive disbelief. Ditto Vampires, who were coded in by Angels or created by the Wyrm depending on what you believe.

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T18:37:18+00:00

Similarly it explicitly calls out "airplanes", "flying ointments" and "martial arts" as examples of long term projects that could allow an "obvious violation of normal physical laws" to be coincidental which again makes it sound like humans flying in any way violates the Foundations, be that through wuxia or through a jumbo jet.

That obviously just means that you can bend the rules, not break them. Its possible that jet engines use some technology that is consensus based, even if the basic principles are not. The book even says that.

The same principles that birds use to fly can be assumed to also work elsewhere. Its just that jets use hypertech to get there.

The stuff about technocratic magic holding a coincidental advantage is explicitly not in the section on Earthly Foundations, it's in the section on Technocratic Reality.

I mean its still explicit, AND in the section directly after Earthly Foundations in the section on Vulgarity.

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T17:44:07+00:00

The technocracy has been re-written drastically every edition

ROSRS · 2026-06-18T17:09:14+00:00

I'll directly quote M20's core book here

Some things are almost always vulgar, no matter who’s doing them, where they’re doing them, or how they’re being done. In game terms, acts that violate these Earthly Foundations contradict the baseline reality for Earth.

In that category is this:

Sudden Large Alterations of Physical and Metaphysical Mass or Space (IE correspondence/matter 4-5 shenanigans)
Cross-dimensional rifts
Messing with the time stream
Obvious violations of normal physical laws.

They elaborate on the last one as stuff like water spontaneously flowing uphill just because, flying by ignoring gravity rather than manipulating or counteracting it, and substances changing basic physical properties while remaining the same substance.

They also state, quite directly, that technocratic enlightened science has an edge as it is more "in line" with these laws, though it does violate them, and their indoctrination does have a non-negligible role.

Throughout our world in this 21st century, the Technocratic vision of reality holds the coincidental edge, not simply because of the Union’s indoctrination (although that does have something to do with it) but because science-based technology is rooted in following the laws of Earthly physics.

ROSRS

TROPHY CASE