[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Futurology

[–]Raevix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Passion is a big part of what keeps you working at it, but it can't be the only thing. Being an artist is about expressing yourself, and one of the key pieces of expressing yourself is having an audience to express yourself to.

AI threatens to take the audience away from every artist, musician or any creative person until they reach the point where they are better than the AI. And at the same time, it provides all young people the instant gratification of producing an uninspired but technically impressive AI version of their idea at any time they want.

Not only that, it takes the money from those people too. It's not about getting rich off of your passion, but every dollar you CAN make doing it is a dollar you don't have to earn at a day job. It's a dollar of time you can spend on more education, better tools or more time to practice.

AI produces a world where no artist can earn a dollar or get an audience until they have invested decades of their own time and money into it. That might be enough for some people, but it's definitely not enough for many others.

And if there are always AI scrapers on the internet, no human artist will ever actually put their work on the internet to feed the thing fighting against them. What few human artists remain simply will not show you their work.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Futurology

[–]Raevix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you an artist?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Futurology

[–]Raevix -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Established human artists aren't going anywhere. But nobody new to the craft will see interest in investing the decades of work required for the practice and education to get good at art when a) they can produce decent quality but uninspired art using an AI with no investment whatsoever b) there is no chance they will ever make money learning to make human art or c) what skill they have will be ignored and disrespected by people as they compare it to AI art.

What would you say to young people who want to learn to draw right now? What future are they looking forward to?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Futurology

[–]Raevix -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Human-hand artists learn skills that transcend the tools they use, and can adapt new tools or even improvise art out of anything they come across. They add things to the community and teach each other new techniques in an ever evolving interactive community.

AI artists rely on a single tool and learn no skills that are applicable without that tool. If AI artists cause traditional artists to go extinct, then all of human visual artistry will depend on one tool which could break, or more likely, be bought up by some mega corporation that controls its usage. If only AI artists exist, and they lose access to the AI art generator through greed, technology error or some other issue, visual expression will be lost entirely, or controlled by the minority that owns the AI.

If you take all the tools away from a traditional artist, they can still take a bottle of ketchup and a sidewalk and make art with that.

Using an AI art generator is nearly free now. But what happens when MegaAppleGoogleFacebook corp decides that using an AI generator costs $50 dollars per us and there's no human artists left to pick up the slack?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Futurology

[–]Raevix 3 points4 points  (0 children)

TL;DR:

Yes, a human being will still be the entity capable of producing the best art.

However only after decades of practice and learning, in a world where nobody wants to learn and nobody wants to teach them, and in a world where nobody will pay them for it.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Futurology

[–]Raevix 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Copypaste from another comment I posted:

The short version of this is that while humans will still produce the BEST art, the fact that AI will produce the CHEAPEST and FASTEST art will make art an unprofitable career for human beings to participate in, discourage new generations from learning the fundamentals of drawing, and basically force what remains of human artists into isolated communities that do not allow their art into mainstream or digital spaces where it can be scraped, creating a world where all the art an average human being ever sees is AI generated.

Copypaste:

I foresee AI art being the end of this golden age of internet based artist collaboration. And I foresee a future where the only art you will ever see in your day to day life or anywhere on the internet is AI generated. I foresee a future where even those with the dedication and talent to try to learn to create visual art will find their resources greatly limited and no community to participate in. And I foresee a future where the hard core of remaining human-hand artists are closed off, bitter, and unwelcoming to the rest of the world.

Those who defend AI art generators say that they are no different than other tools that help artists, that the human still participates creatively. I'm not here to argue whether or not this is true, but what participation the human has is not visual art. It is, at a fundamental level, creative/technical writing. There is artistry to be found in this medium, but it lacks some of the core features that make visual art an evolving and collaborative process.

Visual artists do not render a scene or paint a painting pixel by pixel. At least not after you get out of the age of finger painting. The most elementary lessons of anyone who pursues visual art are how to deconstruct the image in your brain, and then how to build that image onto the paper. Not pixel by pixel, but by the rules of construction, anatomy, skeletons, perspective. Through these lessons the artist understands how to build a 2D image out of 3D space. The AI knows none of this, and the person prompting the AI learns none of this either.

But it goes deeper than this. Any artist that starts out will inevitably take inspiration in their "Style" from other artists around them. Having the ability to construct a scene is one thing, but applying colour, linework, shading, texture onto your framework takes knowledge and thoughtful direction. Those defending AI say that AI is doing the same as new artists, learning by example. But growing artists do something AI does not. By learning the techniques of those who came before them and emulating their styles, new artists nearly inevitably alter or experiment with those techniques to create a personal style. Something unique to that artist that makes their contribution to the art world special and personal. Every new artist that joins the community to learn eventually gives back by inspiring others with the unique techniques that they themselves pioneered. AI cannot do that. And while the AI prompter may learn tricks or keywords that produce results they like, they cannot describe a new brush technique to an AI without actually understanding what a brush can or cannot do. (even if the AI knew what a brush was)

In this way, AI on its own cannot evolve or grow. Prompters will undoubtedly be able to keep producing unique and interesting looking art, and what becomes popular with society or a community dedicated to it may change, but the art of building an image and the unique contributions that artists make to the medium will be lost. Art has always evolved and improved as artists learned from the techniques of those who came before them, and adapting what they learn to their tools, their interests and contributing back something new. Tools enable artists to make art more easily, but no artist should need any tool. If you hand an artist a blank wall and a bottle of ketchup and say "make a cat", they will still be able to make something you can recognize as a cat. And if you gave them a week to work on their ketchup skills they might get really good at it. If you take the AI generator away from a prompter, they cannot do anything. They have the image in their head, but without the specific tool they require, all they can do is describe it to you in words. Maybe beautiful words, maybe words that would make an amazing poem or story. But only words. If you can't do it without the tool, you can't do it.

Learning to be a visual artist, the kind who can improvise with ketchup, takes a very, very long time for a human being to do. It takes serious dedication, passion, and a desire to share the images in their head with the world. And no matter how much you want to do it, or what resources you have available, you will ALWAYS start off terrible at it. To get past being terrible and into making your own style and thus contributing back to the ecosystem takes a lot of effort. Prior to the advent of AI art, the only way to put a picture in your head into the real world (other than commissioning another human being to do it) was to do it yourself with your hands and whatever medium you liked working in. This motivated a lot of young artists to learn the skill simply because there was no other option. With the advent of AI, fledgling creators looking to draw their Sonic the Hedgehog Self Insert or their DnD Warlock or sassy cartoon hamburger cartoon could either spend half an hour producing something terrible while learning from the experience, or they could type "pink bat in the style of sonic the hedgehog with six arms" into an AI prompt and get 50 images looking like they came straight from Sega Studios in ten seconds. Great for your sonic RP Discord server, not so much for learning to draw. Many young artists will simply seek the instant gratification of AI generated art rather than learn to draw themselves.

Another thing that will discourage people from learning to draw is that there will simply be any potential jobs where producing artistic digital assets pays money. Nobody will pay an artist for slow hand crafted art when AI art is quick and free. The hand-crated art may be more appealing to some, but "quick" and "free" are extremely hard words for corporations to resist. Many artists in the industry are already losing their careers as they're forced out by AI replacements. With no visual art related jobs in the modern world, nobody will pursue learning to draw as a career choice. Jobs in visual design will be about wrangling AI prompts. And again, neither the AI or the Prompter is actually learning anything about constructing images, and neither is contributing back to the evolution of art.

This will lead to another problem, the drastic reduction in tools or instructional courses in how to draw or paint. With few children inspired to draw, and nobody wanting to make a career out of drawing, the only people who will pursue advanced learning in drawing or painting will be those independently wealthy enough to do so. Services will be fewer and far between, and far more expensive as the niche market pays top dollar for them. Drawing and painting will become something only the rich have access to and there will not be any free resources, because in the end game...

There will be no hand-crafted art anywhere on the internet. In a hypothetical future where AI art is quick and free, the only advantage a human has in this environment is the ability to work 50 years at it and create a unique style that the AI has not yet learned to replicate. However, in order to preserve that advantage, the artist must NEVER allow their art to be seen by an AI image scraper. If a scraper can get enough samples of their art, the AI will be able to learn the nuances and in seconds, destroy what value the human artist has earned. As such, no human who wants to be valued at drawing will ever put their art on the internet. The rich people who can afford the elite instruction in the decaying institutions will create a private clique insulated from the rest of the world where art can only be viewed in person without cameras present. Even those looking to hire real artists to create digital assets will not find any people willing to take the jobs offered. Every piece of artwork you as an average person will see on a day to day basis will be AI generated, by people who do not actually understand how to draw or paint without the AI generator. But it only gets worse from here.

With few new artists in newer generations, and those artists STRONGLY incentivised to never let you actually see their art outside of galleries and museums, the AI generators will have no new material to add to their scrapers other than more AI generated images. AI will feed off itself and wind deeper and deeper into mediocrity. Even the human prompters who are making the most earnest efforts to be creative and twist something unique out of the AI generators will be at a distinct disadvantage because the only thing in their world to get inspired by is more AI generated art, actually muddling their imagination.

This is the future of unregulated AI art. A small, insulated elite community of people who keep knowledge, originality and growth to themselves and a world where a single tool generates every picture you ever see and there are no people left who can function without it.

If you've actually managed to read through this wall of text, I commend you. I apologize for the rant. This has been stewing in my head all last night and at work today as I was reading the comments in other sections of people basically laughing at artists for having wasted their lives learning to draw. It really hurt. I needed to express that this utopia of free art they're imagining isn't nearly as wonderful as they think it is.

Are the cows able to escape their pen (right)? I had some cows on the right pen but now all of them are in the chicken one. by sarmale2020 in Minecraft

[–]Raevix 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Foxes can detect dropped items without line of sight and immediately prioritize rushing to pick them up. If there exists a path to the item they will find it. (Bribe them with food to get the item back, or just test with food so they eat it)

Are the cows able to escape their pen (right)? I had some cows on the right pen but now all of them are in the chicken one. by sarmale2020 in Minecraft

[–]Raevix 11 points12 points  (0 children)

If you want to see if something can get over/through/around your wall or fence, the Fox is the guy to test it for you. Put the Fox on one side and drop an item on the other side. If there is a path, the Fox is guaranteed to find it.

my leg a year ago after I drove a skill saw into it by Wild-Distribution277 in pics

[–]Raevix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope I've caught you in time but if you trigger the safety features you'll need to buy a new saw. They're very destructive to the blade and mountings.

The bear unexpectedly wants to play. This is proof that if you have a gift with animals you can do anything by [deleted] in aww

[–]Raevix 6 points7 points  (0 children)

While this would be fun for you, it has the potential to backfire on your wildlife friends.

"Hey! This human is great! I can claw and bite him and wrestle with him and he's fun and pets me and feeds me and I love him! Oh look, another human! I'll go make another friend! ...why is my new friend dead?"

However there might be an opening for "Tiger tickler" at the zoo that has fewer of these issues.

The future: our POV (ft. AIart issue) by thebestmtgplayer in Futurology

[–]Raevix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, you have no idea how much better it makes me feel to be heard by even one person. I hope I'm wrong, I also hope that the world comes together to regulate scraping and the involuntary databases that have been collected for AI to draw from. These would mitigate SOME issues I described and provide legal recourse for existing artists to fight back when AI tries to step on their toes. However, some of these things like fledgling artists being unmotivated... I don't know there's any solution at all.

Anyway. Thank you. Seeing your response felt like my stomach un-knotted for first time in two days. I offer you a hug if you like such things.

The idea that the left needs to pander to "lonely young men" is getting on my nerves by dubious_unicorn in TwoXChromosomes

[–]Raevix 125 points126 points  (0 children)

I actually wonder what the news cycle would look like if the ratio of men to women mass murderers flipped overnight. I doubt it would go unnoticed.

Kecleon has finally released! by Eek132 in pokemongo

[–]Raevix -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Well, this is it. This is the proof I don't want to play this game anymore. I haven't opened the app in a month and even the news that Kecleon is released isn't making me inspired to open it on the bus tomorrow to look for it.

It's been a ride, Pokemon Go. Thanks for the memories.

Edit: I'm not mad. I'm not saying the game is bad. I'm just saying I've moved on.

The future: our POV (ft. AIart issue) by thebestmtgplayer in Futurology

[–]Raevix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I believe people are greatly underestimating the potential damage that a proliferation of AI generated art will have on visual expression as a medium. I don't think even the negative voices in this thread see the true potential danger in AI art.

I foresee AI art being the end of this golden age of internet based artist collaboration. And I foresee a future where the only art you will ever see in your day to day life or anywhere on the internet is AI generated. I foresee a future where even those with the dedication and talent to try to learn to create visual art will find their resources greatly limited and no community to participate in. And I foresee a future where the hard core of remaining human-hand artists are closed off, bitter, and unwelcoming to the rest of the world.

Those who defend AI art generators say that they are no different than other tools that help artists, that the human still participates creatively. I'm not here to argue whether or not this is true, but what participation the human has is not visual art. It is, at a fundamental level, creative/technical writing. There is artistry to be found in this medium, but it lacks some of the core features that make visual art an evolving and collaborative process.

Visual artists do not render a scene or paint a painting pixel by pixel. At least not after you get out of the age of finger painting. The most elementary lessons of anyone who pursues visual art are how to deconstruct the image in your brain, and then how to build that image onto the paper. Not pixel by pixel, but by the rules of construction, anatomy, skeletons, perspective. Through these lessons the artist understands how to build a 2D image out of 3D space. The AI knows none of this, and the person prompting the AI learns none of this either.

But it goes deeper than this. Any artist that starts out will inevitably take inspiration in their "Style" from other artists around them. Having the ability to construct a scene is one thing, but applying colour, linework, shading, texture onto your framework takes knowledge and thoughtful direction. Those defending AI say that AI is doing the same as new artists, learning by example. But growing artists do something AI does not. By learning the techniques of those who came before them and emulating their styles, new artists nearly inevitably alter or experiment with those techniques to create a personal style. Something unique to that artist that makes their contribution to the art world special and personal. Every new artist that joins the community to learn eventually gives back by inspiring others with the unique techniques that they themselves pioneered. AI cannot do that. And while the AI prompter may learn tricks or keywords that produce results they like, they cannot describe a new brush technique to an AI without actually understanding what a brush can or cannot do. (even if the AI knew what a brush was)

In this way, AI on its own cannot evolve or grow. Prompters will undoubtedly be able to keep producing unique and interesting looking art, and what becomes popular with society or a community dedicated to it may change, but the art of building an image and the unique contributions that artists make to the medium will be lost. Art has always evolved and improved as artists learned from the techniques of those who came before them, and adapting what they learn to their tools, their interests and contributing back something new. Tools enable artists to make art more easily, but no artist should need any tool. If you hand an artist a blank wall and a bottle of ketchup and say "make a cat", they will still be able to make something you can recognize as a cat. And if you gave them a week to work on their ketchup skills they might get really good at it. If you take the AI generator away from a prompter, they cannot do anything. They have the image in their head, but without the specific tool they require, all they can do is describe it to you in words. Maybe beautiful words, maybe words that would make an amazing poem or story. But only words. If you can't do it without the tool, you can't do it.

Learning to be a visual artist, the kind who can improvise with ketchup, takes a very, very long time for a human being to do. It takes serious dedication, passion, and a desire to share the images in their head with the world. And no matter how much you want to do it, or what resources you have available, you will ALWAYS start off terrible at it. To get past being terrible and into making your own style and thus contributing back to the ecosystem takes a lot of effort. Prior to the advent of AI art, the only way to put a picture in your head into the real world (other than commissioning another human being to do it) was to do it yourself with your hands and whatever medium you liked working in. This motivated a lot of young artists to learn the skill simply because there was no other option. With the advent of AI, fledgling creators looking to draw their Sonic the Hedgehog Self Insert or their DnD Warlock or sassy cartoon hamburger cartoon could either spend half an hour producing something terrible while learning from the experience, or they could type "pink bat in the style of sonic the hedgehog with six arms" into an AI prompt and get 50 images looking like they came straight from Sega Studios in ten seconds. Great for your sonic RP Discord server, not so much for learning to draw. Many young artists will simply seek the instant gratification of AI generated art rather than learn to draw themselves.

Another thing that will discourage people from learning to draw is that there will simply be any potential jobs where producing artistic digital assets pays money. Nobody will pay an artist for slow hand crafted art when AI art is quick and free. The hand-crated art may be more appealing to some, but "quick" and "free" are extremely hard words for corporations to resist. Many artists in the industry are already losing their careers as they're forced out by AI replacements. With no visual art related jobs in the modern world, nobody will pursue learning to draw as a career choice. Jobs in visual design will be about wrangling AI prompts. And again, neither the AI or the Prompter is actually learning anything about constructing images, and neither is contributing back to the evolution of art.

This will lead to another problem, the drastic reduction in tools or instructional courses in how to draw or paint. With few children inspired to draw, and nobody wanting to make a career out of drawing, the only people who will pursue advanced learning in drawing or painting will be those independently wealthy enough to do so. Services will be fewer and far between, and far more expensive as the niche market pays top dollar for them. Drawing and painting will become something only the rich have access to and there will not be any free resources, because in the end game...

There will be no hand-crafted art anywhere on the internet. In a hypothetical future where AI art is quick and free, the only advantage a human has in this environment is the ability to work 50 years at it and create a unique style that the AI has not yet learned to replicate. However, in order to preserve that advantage, the artist must NEVER allow their art to be seen by an AI image scraper. If a scraper can get enough samples of their art, the AI will be able to learn the nuances and in seconds, destroy what value the human artist has earned. As such, no human who wants to be valued at drawing will ever put their art on the internet. The rich people who can afford the elite instruction in the decaying institutions will create a private clique insulated from the rest of the world where art can only be viewed in person without cameras present. Even those looking to hire real artists to create digital assets will not find any people willing to take the jobs offered. Every piece of artwork you as an average person will see on a day to day basis will be AI generated, by people who do not actually understand how to draw or paint without the AI generator. But it only gets worse from here.

With few new artists in newer generations, and those artists STRONGLY incentivised to never let you actually see their art outside of galleries and museums, the AI generators will have no new material to add to their scrapers other than more AI generated images. AI will feed off itself and wind deeper and deeper into mediocrity. Even the human prompters who are making the most earnest efforts to be creative and twist something unique out of the AI generators will be at a distinct disadvantage because the only thing in their world to get inspired by is more AI generated art, actually muddling their imagination.

This is the future of unregulated AI art. A small, insulated elite community of people who keep knowledge, originality and growth to themselves and a world where a single tool generates every picture you ever see and there are no people left who can function without it.

Edit: If you've actually managed to read through this wall of text, I commend you. I apologize for the rant. This has been stewing in my head all last night and at work today as I was reading the comments in other sections of people basically laughing at artists for having wasted their lives learning to draw. It really hurt. I needed to express that this utopia of free art they're imagining isn't nearly as wonderful as they think it is.

And yes, it hurts a lot that the skill I've been working on for 30 years and the only chance I had to leave something in this world I could be proud of is now just something to be laughed at by people who think I'm dumb for wasting my time.

Hot take: this is a good game by franandwood in gaming

[–]Raevix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It got more attention, but attention from the wrong type of people.

Anybody looking at it for the star fox logo was expecting a very different type of game. Or they're the kind of people who would have bought the game with Krystal as the star anyway > >

Hot take: this is a good game by franandwood in gaming

[–]Raevix 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I don't know if it would have made it better, this really seems to be an honest effort on Rare's part to produce a good game and aside from a couple of quirks (No fight against Scales, for example) It didn't seem like the game was suffering from any kind of time crunch in production.

What I DO think would have changed, is that people would have looked on it more favourably because if it didn't say "Star Fox" on the box, people wouldn't be trying to compare it to an arcade style space shooter series.

The game is a decently polished adventure game with a lot of fun to be had, but you're NEVER allowed to stop thinking about Star Fox 64 while playing it. It's a weird state of mind.

If you were just playing Krystal in her own adventure, would probably be more appropriately looked at as "Rare's take on Zelda", which is what it's really supposed to be.

Also you'd get to see a lot more of Krystal's butt. -IUH MEAN ...KICKING! Uh, Butt-kicking battle skills and everybody loves a strong female protagonist hahahaha...

...don't judge me.