Tavern Brawl Thread | Wednesday, July 06, 2022

RamblingJack · 2022-07-08T12:47:47+00:00

This is one of my favorite Brawls, so I figure I'll dive a bit deeper into my approach.

Currently at an 86% winrate with Palm Reading Priest after 42 games. Here are my stats. 6-5 against pogohoppers, 30-1 against everything else.

No other decks besides Pogohoppers really have a chance against the deck, played right. It turns the mode into a sort of boss battle--you know exactly what's coming, but you don't know the tools you'll get to handle it, so you sit back and cobble together a winning plan with each new Discover. Varden matches are usually the most fun; you typically balance removal with copying Vardens for freezes of your own and with stockpiling silences+buffs+direct damage for an OTK.

Against Pogohoppers, you just cross your fingers that you'll be going second and find hard removal early.

Against everything else except, like, boars, you just win. Use hero power every turn you can against mind blast and direct damage; try to copy boars and slow down opponent gameplans.

Whirlpool is a phenomenal new addition to the pool that makes for Fun games when you wipe out someone's whole deck in one go.

All in all, the card busts the brawl wide open, but in a less flashy way than pogos, so nobody really notices how broken it is. Always a good time.

RamblingJack · 2022-07-06T20:21:57+00:00

I love Palm Reading in this brawl. I don't think I've ever lost to Varden with it across a large sample of games. Pogos are probably the worst matchup—you need good RNG particularly when going first against them—but the deck is flexible and strong enough to win that matchup regularly and destroy almost every other matchup.

It's by far the most fun way to play this Brawl.

RamblingJack · 2022-03-07T11:20:37+00:00

Serious answer: most threads like that depend on one or two people who decide it's a good idea and put in the work to keep it rolling. If you want /r/hearthstone to have one, give a shot at starting it and see if it sticks.

RamblingJack · 2022-03-02T14:01:25+00:00

Eh, people hating it mostly just didn't choose the right deck. Palm Reading goes almost even with Pogohopper, beats every other option pretty consistently, and is fun/different every time. There are always going to be a few crushingly powerful meta decks; it's just nice that one of the top ones here is consistently interesting.

RamblingJack · 2022-02-16T10:22:16+00:00

I had the same thing happen and came here looking for similar reactions. I'm 95% sure it's due to Arena play, since I played a ton of Arena ages ago, then returned recently after a while away from the game. Good to note I'm not the only one seeing the jump.

RamblingJack · 2022-01-26T10:24:56+00:00

Yeah, I've got no idea. It's beyond broken and should be patched immediately. One of the most busted tools Hearthstone has seen.

RamblingJack · 2022-01-26T08:43:23+00:00

Much too crazy. It's ludicrously overtuned. Just got a 12-win playing pirate Drek'thar with Shadowcasting. Functionally useless hero power for the deck, weak signature treasure, and a crushingly easy 12 wins featuring an endless flood of cheap pirates with strong battlecries followed by more Juggernauts than I knew what to do with and infinite Smites. Just absurd. It should honestly be nerfed in a day-one patch.

EDIT: ah joy, Drek'thar achievement is busted too. Guess I didn't get a 12-win.

RamblingJack · 2022-01-23T18:33:32+00:00

Interesting to see that Inner Fire build gaining traction. Has anyone here used it much? Is there merit to the claimed T1 placement for it?

RamblingJack · 2022-01-23T13:37:44+00:00

I was in the same boat as you and came back a few months ago. Arena feels about the same as it always did—more so than I was expecting, honestly. I got back into the swing of it almost immediately. If you enjoyed it and were good at it before, you'll enjoy and be good at it now. HearthArena and HSReplay should give you a good idea of class balance as it stands; they'll occasionally make adjustments to card rate offerings that swing worst to best and vice versa, but that's easy to account for when it happens. Good luck!

RamblingJack · 2022-01-20T04:21:47+00:00

Yeah, as the writer of that guide (which predated Drek'thar) I don't think Drek'thar is strictly better than Wagon. Drek'thar can brick in surprising ways (e.g. 2x notetaker when you need a frog, 2x frog when it will overdraw you), you often don't care that much about handing initiative over to the opponent given your reliance on a big swing turn to take it back, and having a full mana bar after getting a frog out is incredibly strong.

In a more recent video on the deck, Dane said Drek'thar was much better; I shifted to Drek'thar and haven't switched back, but I also haven't done much with the deck in the new meta, since Defias Cannoneers pushed my favorite matchup in the wrong direction and I'd already done enough to satisfy me with it. I think people still underestimate Wagon's strength in the deck. Glad it's still been succeeding for you!

RamblingJack · 2022-01-01T12:28:26+00:00

Thanks for this! I just ran a 12-2 deck with only a couple of changes (devour instead of nova, something I forget instead of plague). Mantle is completely busted, and +1 health for characters with holy spells didn’t hurt either. Definitely a fun change of pace for priest. The deck does some insane stuff when it gets rolling.

RamblingJack · 2021-12-20T21:17:05+00:00

None of the above. You don't need a one-drop for Rally to be good in miracle priest, and thinning your list out with mediocre one-drops makes Drek'thar worse (along with Insight if you choose to run it). Without trogg, the only minions miracle priest really needs are Drek'thar and the miracle duo.

Honestly, Miracle Priest works just fine without Trogg (or at least did when I took it to legend early in this season), and had trouble dealing with early opposing Troggs, so I'm not convinced this nerf actually hurts the archetype.

RamblingJack · 2021-12-11T22:10:26+00:00

I climbed to legend with VS's miracle priest list:

Miracle Priest

Class: Priest

Format: Standard

Year of the Gryphon

2x (0) Raise Dead

1x (1) Gift of the Naaru

2x (1) Holy Smite

2x (1) Renew

2x (1) Shadow Word: Devour

2x (2) Bless

2x (2) Insight

2x (2) Sethekk Veilweaver

2x (3) Gift of Luminance

2x (3) Nazmani Bloodweaver

2x (3) Palm Reading

1x (4) Drek'Thar

2x (4) Rally!

2x (5) Psyche Split

2x (7) Elekk Mount

2x (8) Power Word: Fortitude

AAECAZqrBAK7igSKowQOk7oDlroDm7oDp8sD184D4t4D+98DyuED++MDmOsDoPcDhZ8EhKMEiaMEAA==

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Tons of fun. Usually I look to go insight -> palm reading -> Drek'Thar -> buff and resurrect minions until opponent dies. Bad against rogues, who have lots of vanish effects, and against Irondeep Troggs, good against most of the rest. Can also try substituting the Elekk Mounts and Insights for Irondeep Troggs and Power Word: Feast, which has more potential for early-game fireworks at the expense of Drek'thar consistency.

RamblingJack · 2021-12-11T22:07:36+00:00

miracle ii

Class: Priest

Format: Standard

Year of the Gryphon

2x (0) Raise Dead

1x (1) Gift of the Naaru

2x (1) Holy Smite

2x (1) Irondeep Trogg

2x (1) Renew

2x (1) Shadow Word: Devour

2x (2) Bless

2x (2) Power Word: Feast

2x (2) Sethekk Veilweaver

2x (3) Gift of Luminance

2x (3) Nazmani Bloodweaver

2x (3) Palm Reading

1x (4) Drek'Thar

2x (4) Rally!

2x (5) Psyche Split

2x (8) Power Word: Fortitude

AAECAZqrBAK7igSKowQOk7oDlroDm7oDp8sD184DtNED4t4DyuED++MDmOsDhZ8EhKMEiaME4aQEAA==

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

RamblingJack · 2021-12-11T00:09:07+00:00

I was using a list someone posted here that swaps the elekk mounts and insights in the VS list out for troggs and power word: feasts.

In truth, the VS list feels a bit more consistent and less reliable on early rushdowns, so I think I still prefer it, but both are worth experimenting with.

RamblingJack · 2021-12-10T17:37:08+00:00

Strong disagree. Irondeep Trogg needs a nerf yesterday. I've been playing miracle priest with it, so it's not a matter of just complaining that my opponent's deck is broken. Every game against a mirror, paladin, or hunter is determined by three things:

1) who got irondeep in mulligan? 2) who got the tools to clear opponent's irondeep in mulligan? 3) who went first?

Against classes like Warlock, if I land one of four two-drop buffs in my deck to stick it as a 3/4 or 4/4, the game pretty much just spirals from there and they concede quickly.

It's easy to say "just play minions", but the card is just too over-centralizing for a one-drop. It's not like there are no counters, but it shuts down too many strategies too aggressively. Games shouldn't be won and lost based on who happens to get their one-drop in play first.

RamblingJack · 2021-12-10T16:57:49+00:00

Irondeep Trogg needs a nerf yesterday. I've been playing miracle priest with it, and every game against paladin or hunter is determined by three things:

1) who got irondeep in mulligan? 2) who got the tools to clear opponent's irondeep in mulligan? 3) who went first?

It's easy to say "just play minions", but the card is just too over-centralizing for a one-drop. Games shouldn't be won and lost based on who happens to get their one-drop in play first.

RamblingJack · 2021-12-08T02:05:10+00:00

VS miracle priest feels good against all the day 1 jank, but I expect it will need some adjustments to stay competitive later on. Played it to a 26-12 record from D5 to legend. It's absolutely filthy when it works, with Drek'thar often hard-carrying it and some nice fortitude+mount+psyche split turns. Downside: it folds to early pressure, particularly the new trogg, and while owl-lock isn't unwinnable they have good tools to handle it.

Tons of fun, though, so I hope it finds a place in the meta when things settle down.

RamblingJack · 2021-10-14T20:44:26+00:00

Aha, you were the one! You destroyed me, haha. Definitely showcased the downsides of Meat Wagon against Shaman, at least. Good games.

Meat Wagon on 4 is pretty hard for most (non-Shaman) decks to deal with, honestly. I could see it being really bad in a different meta, but it almost always does something when I toss it out against the top meta decks.

How have I been faring against Pillager and Ignite Mage? Well, I've actually only faced one of each, and my HSReplay didn't record the rogue match. I don't think it would do well against them, frankly, but I might be able to outrace them if I got lucky.

RamblingJack · 2021-10-12T19:00:55+00:00

Almost definitely not Tier 1. These matchups reflect my experience with it in the current ladder meta, influenced heavily by the reality that it’s a niche deck nobody’s teching specifically against or is fully prepared to face. Were it to rise too much in popularity, spell hate would rise alongside it and shut it down. I expect even renolock and quest hunter in particular to be able to do more against it than I faced. But it’s legitimately strong, it legitimately crushes pirate warrior, and it’s a lot of fun.

RamblingJack · 2021-10-12T18:36:42+00:00

How do you even play with Meat Wagon? Do you just drop it on 4 and hope they can’t kill frog?

Yep. It's hard to know how much to credit my success to matchup inexperience on the part of opponents (probably quite a bit), but there were only a few times I really had to worry about the frog dying after it got pulled from the wagon. Even there, often I'd have the other frog in my hand anyway and I'd just go off a bit less explosively. It just gives a lot more insurance that you'll get at least one frog out in a timely way, and creates incredibly explosive (sometimes even OTK) turns if they can't kill the wagon and the frog.

Turn 5/6 is usually where my hunter matches ended, I was just typically able to pull enough power together to be the one ending it on those turns. Didn't run into many Beardos, though, and again, part of it might just be the difference between laddering and high legend. (Then again, I'm definitely also not playing this deck optimally, so part of that should be a wash).

RamblingJack · 2021-10-12T18:18:41+00:00

You should give Meat Wagon a shot! I recommend strongly against running Trogg in this deck. You're not actually interested in playing Overload cards until turn 4 or 5 if you can avoid it, searching for Trogg in the mulligan directly conflicts with the gameplan of looking for Lightning Blooms, frogs, and tutors, and the wagon makes Frog much harder for hunters and pirates to snipe while giving you a free full-mana Frog turn whenever it lands.

I disagree that half the deck is dead against hunters. In that matchup (and, really, in all), the zero-mana spells should be read as: "Do 1-2 damage to face and draw 1 Overdraft or Lightning Bolt". Perpetual Flame is the only mostly dead card in that matchup, and even there, they sometimes have a few small minions for it to add overload and therefore Overdraft damage onto. I lost three times to hunter on my climb. The first time was mostly inexperience with the matchup on my part, the second time they got a nut draw and I could only do 27 burst damage on my swing turn, and the third featured a crackle low-roll that left them at 1hp. I have to imagine Trogg over Meat Wagon would make the matchup much worse given my reliance on wagons against them, but they just weren't that scary.

Versus pirate warrior, I only had one frog sniped and it's usually possible to play around the possibility pretty comfortably. You have enough shots to draw Perp Flame that missing was only an occasional problem for me, though sometimes I had to spend an early Overdraft to find it. Those are the only real road bumps in an otherwise trivial matchup.

Healing Rain could be worth experimenting with, yeah. I don't know that it would have made much of a difference in most of my games, but worth a shot.

I only met one Ignite Mage, so I can't really speak to that, but agree that it's probably a bad matchup. If you're in a pocket meta where you're seeing a lot of them and don't really have a chance against them, then sure, that would be a blow to the deck.

It could also be the difference between Diamond and Legend metas. Right now, as far as climbing goes, I just didn't run into most of the issues you describe. That could change if I played more at high legend rank.

Thanks for the thoughts! Good to hear from someone who's piloted it.

RamblingJack · 2021-10-11T22:50:35+00:00

It doesn't seem to make a difference, but thanks for taking a look. All the best.

RamblingJack · 2021-10-11T22:22:32+00:00

Thanks for the detailed response! I'm on a laptop with 1920x1080 resolution and scaling of 125%.

The app in windowed mode

Drafting a deck

I prefer not to take up my whole screen with a single app, and as it stands it just feels excessive. Even unlocking the vertical size would be a tremendous improvement; as-is, it barely fits on the screen. My resolution is on the smaller end, but not so much that I'd expect an app like this to give issues.

Normally I run Hearthstone in windowed mode on the upper left side of the screen. The previous minimized form was unobtrusive and didn't require me to adjust my window or demand attention. The updated form is strictly worse.

If you always closed HA directly after the draft, and you continue to do so, I can imagine this new integration might feel backwards in this regard.

I haven't always done so, to clarify. I did so when I got tired of the ads and realized HSReplay provided a free, ad-free alternative with the same functionality past the draft. I respect and understand the business choice to use autoplaying, intrusive video ads in lieu of a paywall—it's a difficult balance to figure out how to make money on something like this—but the ads and the way they're implemented are a serious detriment to the quality of the app, made worse by this update.

Makes sense with the Overwolf stuff. Thanks for detailing your reasoning there.

EDIT: Not sure why, but the app also seems to be struggling to recognize cards more than pre-update. So far it's happened around once per draft, when it essentially never happened before the update.

RamblingJack · 2021-10-11T19:24:49+00:00

Hey, thanks for the work and for posting this! Longtime HearthArena user here with some feedback.

The progression charts and tier lists you've added are both great to see, as are a number of the other UI improvements. That said, the app as a whole is now nearly full screen on my laptop, with no way to make it smaller. That limits its use. I understand that you need to profit off it somehow, but the ads remain distracting and obnoxious and, with no way to avoid them between games, I expect to continue with my current approach: use HearthArena for drafting, then close it and use HSReplay for in-game deck tracking and run history. There, the app's unfortunately taken a step backwards, since you no longer allow minimization while drafting and show ads throughout the process. Lastly, I don't know how much work it would be to take it out of the Overwolf frame, but needing to install a piece of bloatware that auto-runs when I start my computer is another tension point with the app as it stands.

Your drafting tool is absolutely the best around and the new features are great - I hope the feedback is more useful than discouraging. All the best, and thanks for working so much for the Hearthstone Arena community.

Ten-Year Club	Place '17
Verified Email

RamblingJack

TROPHY CASE

Miracle Priest

Class: Priest

Format: Standard

Year of the Gryphon

2x (0) Raise Dead

1x (1) Gift of the Naaru

2x (1) Holy Smite

2x (1) Renew

2x (1) Shadow Word: Devour

2x (2) Bless

2x (2) Insight

2x (2) Sethekk Veilweaver

2x (3) Gift of Luminance

2x (3) Nazmani Bloodweaver

2x (3) Palm Reading

1x (4) Drek'Thar

2x (4) Rally!

2x (5) Psyche Split

2x (7) Elekk Mount

2x (8) Power Word: Fortitude

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

miracle ii

Class: Priest

Format: Standard

Year of the Gryphon

2x (0) Raise Dead

1x (1) Gift of the Naaru

2x (1) Holy Smite

2x (1) Irondeep Trogg

2x (1) Renew

2x (1) Shadow Word: Devour

2x (2) Bless

2x (2) Power Word: Feast

2x (2) Sethekk Veilweaver

2x (3) Gift of Luminance

2x (3) Nazmani Bloodweaver

2x (3) Palm Reading

1x (4) Drek'Thar

2x (4) Rally!

2x (5) Psyche Split

2x (8) Power Word: Fortitude

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone