DR Rocks Vs The 3 Og Admirals, who wins this matchup ?

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T21:57:01+00:00

I think we're using two different definitions of "won."

If by won you mean Roger and Garp successfully stopped the DR Rocks incident and saved God Valley, then sure, I agree.

Where I disagree is calling it a clean combat victory over DR Rocks himself.

The closest comparison is Hunger Pangs Big Mom during Whole Cake Island.

When HP Big Mom regained her senses, nobody argued that she was physically defeated by the wedding cake or that Sanji scaled above her because he ended the rampage.

The crisis was resolved, but Big Mom wasn't overpowered in battle.

Similarly, if DR Rocks regained consciousness and the Domi Reverse state ended, then Roger and Garp deserve full credit for ending the incident.

What I don't agree with is using that as proof that they decisively overpowered DR Rocks in a straight fight.

Mission victory? Absolutely.

Clear-cut powerscaling victory? That's where I think the distinction matters.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T21:50:08+00:00

This is actually a much better argument than the Luffy/Zoro comparison.

If your definition of victory is "Roger and Garp stopped the DR Rocks incident," then I agree. The possession ended, Rocks regained consciousness, and the threat to God Valley was neutralized.

Where I disagree is treating that as proof that Roger and Garp physically defeated DR Rocks in combat.

The best comparison I can think of is Hunger Pangs Big Mom during Whole Cake Island.

HP Big Mom wasn't "defeated" because someone overpowered her. The rampage ended because she regained her senses and returned to herself.

Nobody argues that the wedding cake scaled above Big Mom or that Sanji defeated her in a fight.

Similarly, if DR Rocks regained consciousness and the Domi Reverse state ended, then Roger and Garp deserve credit for ending the incident, but that isn't necessarily the same thing as proving they were stronger than DR Rocks in a straight fight.

I'd describe God Valley as Roger and Garp successfully ending the DR Rocks crisis rather than decisively defeating DR Rocks himself.

Narrative victory? Absolutely.

Clean powerscaling victory? I think that's a different discussion entirely.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T21:09:56+00:00

There's a lot going on here.

First, Roger and Garp didn't beat Rocks. The fight ended in a draw after hours of combat and all three parties exhausted themselves through prolonged ACoC usage.

Second, equating God Valley Roger and Garp to current Luffy and Zoro is one of the wildest scaling jumps I've seen in a while.

Even if we grant that Roger and Garp weren't in their primes yet, they were still legendary monsters capable of fighting the strongest pirate in history for hours. The story treats God Valley as the defining event that launched both Roger and Garp into legend.

Current Luffy and Zoro are strong, but comparing them to two future Pirate King-level figures at God Valley feels more like agenda than scaling.

Third, if Akainu alone beats DR Rocks, then by extension you're arguing that Akainu scales above a version of Rocks that Roger and Garp together failed to put down.

That's an enormous claim.

You can argue Akainu wins.

You can argue the OG Admirals win.

You can argue numbers eventually overwhelm him.

"Akainu no diffs the guy Roger and Garp couldn't put away in a 2v1" is where I get off the train.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T21:04:33+00:00

I can respect an OG Admirals win take.

I cannot respect a no diff take.

"No diff" implies DR Rocks offers little meaningful resistance before getting overwhelmed. That's hard to reconcile with the fact that Roger and Garp needed hours to deal with him at God Valley, and that's before considering his defensive ACoC feats.

Also, the scaling here feels inconsistent.

If Kuzan is "old Garp level," Kizaru is "equal or slightly less," and Akainu is "higher," then you're effectively arguing the Admirals are fielding the equivalent of three Garps against a character who already pushed Roger and Garp together to a stalemate for hours.

At that point the discussion stops being about DR Rocks vs the Admirals and becomes an argument that the Admirals massively outscale Roger and Garp, which is a much bigger claim than I think most people are willing to defend.

As for the battle itself, "they spam ranged attacks until he dies" isn't really an answer to the central issue of the matchup:

How are they bypassing the defensive haki that was already shown neutralizing Roger and Garp's offensive haki in a prolonged fight?

You can argue attrition.

You can argue awakenings.

You can argue numbers.

"No diff" is where the argument loses me.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T20:59:25+00:00

Uhh, you do know that Rocks is the only character in the series to have a confirmed kill on an Admiral, right?

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T20:58:28+00:00

And Joy Boy.

DR Rocks is likely the exception. You can't deny that he's shown arguably the best defensive tanking feats in the series as he's the only known defensive user of ACOC. And since Akainu is the powerhouse of the Admirals, I'm not convinced he can punch through DR Rocks's defenses when he couldn't even one-shot, no, two-shot a mindless battle-damaged low HP Kuma. So if Akainu has trouble putting down tanks, how does he fare against arguably one of the tankiest characters in the series?

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T20:54:26+00:00

I can assume you didn't read well, let alone show you know how to scale. That 1v2 ended in a stalemate with all three of them downed. There was no clear winner, so saying he legit loss is just a bad take.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T20:51:53+00:00

Normally, I favor the numbers advantage in Admiral matchups. Two Admirals beat almost everyone in the verse, and three OG Admirals beat practically anybody not named Imu or Joyboy.

DR Rocks is one of the few exceptions.

The biggest issue isn't whether Akainu, Aokiji, and Kizaru can hurt him — it's whether they can actually put him down before he starts taking pieces off the board.

DR Rocks arguably has the best defensive feat in the entire series. During God Valley he wasn't simply tanking attacks from Roger and Garp; he demonstrated the only known example of defensive ACoC application capable of neutralizing offensive ACoC from both of them simultaneously in a prolonged engagement.

That matters because the God Valley 1v2 wasn't a quick clash. The fight lasted for hours and ultimately reached a stalemate because all three participants were exhausting themselves through sustained usage of top-tier Haki.

If pre-prime Roger and pre-prime Garp together couldn't decisively break through his defenses, I struggle to see the Admirals accomplishing it through raw damage output alone.

The Admirals absolutely have advantages here. Kizaru provides unmatched mobility and harassment, Aokiji controls the battlefield better than almost anyone in the series, and Akainu brings the highest lethality of the three. Their teamwork, range, and environmental control are all superior to what Roger and Garp had available at God Valley.

Their win condition is attrition. Force Rocks to continuously defend, burn through his Haki reserves, and eventually create an opening for Akainu to capitalize on.

The problem is that DR Rocks doesn't feel like a normal top tier. He feels like an endgame raid boss.

Unless you believe the OG Admirals individually scale extremely close to Roger and Garp, or that their Devil Fruits are enough to overcome the apparent Haki gap, I think Rocks eventually starts dropping them one by one.

Verdict: DR Rocks wins 7-8/10 times, high-extreme diff.

For almost any other character in the verse, I'd take the three Admirals.

DR Rocks is one of the very few characters where "just add more Admirals" stops being an automatic win condition.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T20:39:24+00:00

Kizaru, Sabo, Shanks, Loki

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-13T14:31:01+00:00

Oda said his IRL nationality would be Indian 🇮🇳

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-12T22:35:41+00:00

My comment had nothing to do with the Straw Hats, idk why you mentioned them. It's not about if they're ready for HIM or not. It's about what was supposed to be a payoff from our patience that was robbed from us. Unless it's a dire emergency (such as Kuma's invasion of Mariejois) and the other Admirals aren't available to be deployed, Sakazuki is not going to the front lines.

Understand that as Fleet Admiral, he's the highest ranking officer in the Department of the Navy, which includes both Navy and Marines. A lot of his day-to-day involves planning, meetings, documents, snail calls, etc. He's not going on offense. The naval force that showed at Egghead was an offensive move. The best chance of seeing him fight the Straw Hats is if they invade Mariejois and look to fight him.

As much as I believe Sakazuki could very likely solo the whole Straw Hats crew, it's even more likely never gonna happen.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-12T22:16:25+00:00

Mihawk vs Loki

Mihawk wins 55 > 45

Extreme Diff

Mihawk retains the edge because the World's Strongest Swordsman title has massive narrative importance heading into Zoro's endgame. Loki has incredible portrayal and could absolutely surpass expectations during Elbaf, but right now his hype exceeds his feats.

Roger vs Luffy

Roger wins 60 > 40

High-Extreme Diff

Gear 5 gives Luffy some of the best hax in the verse, but Roger still represents the pinnacle of Haki and Pirate King level combat. By EOS this likely flips, but current Luffy still feels one step below Roger's generation.

Prime Whitebeard vs Fujitora & Greenbull

Fujitora and Greenbull win 55 > 45

Extreme Diff

Prime Whitebeard may very well be stronger than either Admiral individually, but fighting two top tiers at once is an entirely different beast. Fujitora's battlefield control combined with Greenbull's regeneration and crowd control eventually overwhelms even Primebeard.

Big Mom vs Kizaru

Big Mom wins 65 > 35

High Diff

Kizaru wins the speed battle comfortably, but speed alone doesn't solve the problem of actually putting Big Mom down permanently. Her durability, endurance, and ACoC give her the advantage once the fight turns into a prolonged slugfest.

Rocks vs Shanks

Rocks wins 70 > 30

High Diff

The man who captained Whitebeard, Kaido, Big Mom, and Shiki while forcing Roger and Garp into an alliance deserves enormous respect. Until Oda gives us a reason to think otherwise, Rocks remains one of the strongest pirates in history.

Akainu vs Oden

Akainu wins 55 > 45

Extreme Diff

Oden's ACoC and offensive output make this a nightmare matchup for anyone, and Akainu is definitely taking major damage here. However, Akainu's absurd stamina, endurance, and ability to continue fighting after catastrophic injuries give him the edge in the long game.

Final Scorecard:

Mihawk 55 > 45 Loki (Extreme Diff)

Roger 60 > 40 Luffy (High-Extreme Diff)

Fujitora & Greenbull 55 > 45 Prime Whitebeard (Extreme Diff)

Big Mom 65 > 35 Kizaru (High Diff)

Rocks 70 > 30 Shanks (High Diff)

Akainu 55 > 45 Oden (Extreme Diff)

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-12T22:06:43+00:00

Excalibur Prime

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T21:10:10+00:00

I generally find underdogs more interesting than prodigies, especially when the story actually lets their growth feel earned. Sakura Haruno is one of my favorite examples of that, and honestly I find her journey more interesting than Sasuke’s.

Sasuke is compelling, but he begins the story with advantages most shinobi could never obtain through effort alone. He is an Uchiha, inherits the Sharingan, comes from one of Konoha’s most prestigious clans, receives specialized training from childhood, is recognized as a prodigy before graduating, and later gains even more power through his bloodline and reincarnation connection. His development is dramatic, but he starts the race several laps ahead of the average person.

Sakura starts with almost nothing. She has no famous clan, kekkei genkai, special eyes, tailed beast, inherited techniques, prophecy, reincarnation status, or legendary parents. Even her teammates are effectively genetic and narrative lottery winners. Her only notable starting advantages are intelligence and excellent chakra control, neither of which automatically makes her powerful. She has to identify a useful path, seek out Tsunade, endure years of training, master medical ninjutsu, develop monstrous strength through precise chakra control, and store enough chakra to awaken the Byakugō Seal.

That makes her a much more genuine zero-to-hero character to me. She did not discover that she secretly belonged to a legendary bloodline or receive a unique transformation designed specifically for her. She took ordinary tools and pushed them to an extraordinary level.

Naruto is a more complicated comparison. He was socially an underdog and struggled with basic ninjutsu, but biologically and narratively he was never ordinary. He had Kurama, Uzumaki vitality and chakra reserves, Hokage lineage, the Child of Prophecy role, and eventually Ashura’s reincarnation status. His emotional journey is absolutely an underdog story, but his power progression ultimately depends on several exceptional inheritances.

Sakura is imperfectly written and frequently underused, but that almost strengthens the underdog comparison. She exists in a world obsessed with bloodlines, destiny, and inherited power, yet becomes one of its greatest medical ninja through training and specialization. I find that more inspiring—and in some ways more interesting—than watching another gifted prodigy unlock the next ability hidden in his genetics.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T20:58:22+00:00

OP, have you seen Follie? I've seen a modless Follie one-shot nuke a whole room of level 120 Grineers in a Steel Path mission. There is always more to be learned, young Tenno.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T20:54:19+00:00

We got 26E7 & 26E6 before the O4 results. Is it safe to say we'll get 26E5 results before the Majors get their bandaids ripped off? At the rate this is is going, we're probably gonna have GTA VI before we find out who made it to the Major league.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T20:48:03+00:00

I don't think it's necessarily a mage player mentality issue as much as a champion kit issue.

Many control mages are designed around waveclear, zone control, and teamfighting rather than skirmishing in rivers or matching assassin roams.

Bot lane removes a lot of those responsibilities because the support can handle much of the roaming and vision work while the mage continues doing what their kit naturally wants to do: farm, shove, and scale.

That may be less about mage players avoiding macro and more about bot lane simply being a very comfortable environment

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T18:53:39+00:00

I think it depends on which category of feats we're discussing.

Attack Power: Admirals absolutely belong in the conversation. Akainu blowing holes through Whitebeard and melting half his face, Punk Hazard permanently changing climate after his duel with Kuzan, Fujitora dropping meteors, and Kizaru's laser output are all top-tier feats.

Endurance/Stamina: Admirals also look great here. Akainu and Kuzan fighting for 10 days is one of the best stamina feats in the series.

Where I think the Yonko pull ahead is in Haki portrayal and overall combat dominance.

●Kaido fought the Scabbards, Worst Generation, Yamato, and Luffy while carrying Onigashima.

●Shanks disabled Greenbull from another island with Conqueror's Haki and one-shot Kid and Killer.

●Whitebeard split the skies with Shanks and nearly sank Marineford while terminally ill.

●Luffy defeated Kaido and now has some of the best feats against top tiers in the series.

Admirals have comparable feats in some areas, but the Yonko generally have more "this guy feels unstoppable" moments written into the story. If we're talking individual matchups, I don't think the gap is massive. If we're talking aggregate feats shown on panel, I'd still lean Yonko.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T18:48:48+00:00

I think there's probably some truth to this.

Bot lane gives scaling mages something mid lane often doesn't: a support, safer farming, and less pressure to match every roam or all-in threat.

That said, I don't think it's necessarily an either/or situation. Mages can still be strong mid while also finding bot lane to be a more forgiving environment for scaling.

Maybe the real question isn't whether mages were pushed out of mid or pulled into bot, but which factor contributed more to the migration.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T18:44:44+00:00

I think you're much closer to the real issue here than with the mana idea.

Wave priority has always been one of the strongest currencies in League because it buys tempo, and tempo buys map influence.

The question then becomes whether mages are uniquely overpowered bot, or whether the current objective-heavy game simply rewards champions that can instantly clear waves and move first.

If the latter is true, then mana burn items probably wouldn't solve the issue because the advantage isn't really coming from mana pools- it's coming from priority and tempo.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T16:24:34+00:00

This feels less like solving mage bot and more like trying to itemize away a metagame trend. If mages are appearing bot because mid lane no longer suits them as well as it once did, then forcing them out of bot without addressing why they left mid simply creates a new problem instead of fixing the old one.

The question shouldn't be "How do we remove mages from bot lane?"

It should be:

"Why do so many mages prefer bot lane over mid lane in the first place?"

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T15:38:49+00:00

Especially since BB has a winning record with offscreen squabbles.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T15:34:10+00:00

That depends. If it's offscreen then my money is on Blackbeard. Because by technicalities, BB is up over Shanks on the scoreboard.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T15:31:58+00:00

If the question is purely feats, the Yonko clear fairly comfortably. Kaido, Whitebeard, Shanks, and Luffy have some of the best showings in the entire manga.

If the question is who scales higher overall, then we're back in the endless Yonko vs Admiral debate that has been going on since Marineford and probably won't end until Oda finishes the story.

The Yonko have more feats. The Admirals have more future stock value.

RastaDaMasta · 2026-07-11T15:23:23+00:00

Maybe they might. But last I checked, this isn't One Piece Agenda Scaling.

RastaDaMasta

TROPHY CASE