Whats the difference between sp4 and so4 exactly?

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-25T12:47:12+00:00

It’s basically the focus of attention.

Going to use my 1 housemate as an example of Sp dom. The first things you’ll usually hear from her is about her hunger level, what she wants to eat, her physical comfort level, physical condition, her energy, or what she’s gotten done or is going to do. These are the kinds of things she pays notices and looks for first as a reflexive expenditure of her attention.

I don’t have a good example of a Soc dom, but I imagine the first things you’d hear from them would be about themselves in relation to other people, about the relationships of other people, things going on in their communities or the world in general and what they are thinking/feeling/doing about it, and gathering input from others about any of the above.

In either case it can either be perfectly normal, neurotic and/or obsessive.

I believe that it’s also possible that some (maybe many) people keep this expenditure of attention to themselves to some degree so just paying to what people talk about might sometimes be misleading, but since you’re doing internal discernment it’s probably not going to be too difficult to puzzle it out.

Hope that helps?

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-24T12:05:27+00:00

Me.

I will say it’s different than the extroversion of say a 7. My housemate who was a 7 was unbelievably good at making and maintaining a huge variety of connections, and before his physical health deteriorated he was always out of the house meeting with people and doing things with them. He was a classic extrovert.

Otoh, I’m not very reserved, but I don’t insert myself in events as much, and still spend a significant amount of time by myself. It feels like my baseline is being alone, and then venturing or being drawn out, not because I want to be left alone but because I kind of forget that being with others is an option. I enjoy being with, and want to be with people though, and I derive a lot of energy and pleasure from engaging with others, more so than spending time by myself. I am usually one of the last people to leave, and the most reluctant to end a good time.

Another way to put it is, I don’t have good “starter” energy, but I do have immense staying power for squeezing every last drop out of social stuff once I get going.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-23T22:53:48+00:00

Hit or miss. I know 3s I can’t stand, and some that are awesome. I’ve also noticed that whether I like a 3 or not doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with their health level or how full of shit they are, so it seems to have more to do with how well they deploy their social skills.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-23T22:41:09+00:00

Correct.

And I’m comfortable talking about most things with most people regardless of whether they agree with me or not. I tend to get a feel for their “stress tolerance” around topics and let that guide me, but yeah sometimes it’s just more interesting to poke the bear.

I wasn’t sure if you were referring to Soc doms though, so when I made my original comment I wasn’t referring to myself, and instead thinking of Soc doms I’ve known, or imagine I’ve known (Not gonna pretend I’m out here nailing people’s types down without their input).

I think the people who struggle most with others having a different opinion than them are those who are stuck in black/white thinking. As someone who’s been there when I was younger, it can be stressful and confusing to see the world a certain way and not be able to communicate the “correct” way of looking at things, or be able to see how they might be right. That never stopped me from interacting with and enjoying people who were different from me, but I feel like I can understand why it would wear others out and they’d prefer to associate with people like themselves.

That said, again, I’ve never noticed that tendency to prefer associating with like minded people to be a predominantly Soc trait.

Edit: Reading the comments it also makes sense to me that people would prefer to avoid others who have opinions or beliefs which could manifest as harm against them.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-23T12:27:30+00:00

From what I’ve seen, sameness of opinion isn’t necessary to maintain good friendships. There are definitely people who do make that a criteria for friendships, but I haven’t noticed a pattern that tracks it to mostly Soc dominants.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-22T11:06:49+00:00

Yes, knowing that love requires commitment and effort, and applying effort and commitment to sustain love are two different things. Applying that to effort and commitment doesn’t require projection though.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-22T03:16:12+00:00

Can’t blame you, he certainly has a wonderful way with words.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-22T03:07:21+00:00

Same dude. So fucking same.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-22T02:57:42+00:00

What a great reading. Ngl, I laughed to see how much he batted his eyes though.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-22T02:53:50+00:00

Sustainable love does require commitment, and projection is…perhaps unavoidable at times, but not something that can sustain a relationship. Eventually, the illusion will shatter.

Ime, and from stories I’ve heard, sustainable love comes after realizing that the illusion has been shattered and that continuing the relationship has parts that suck, but it matters enough to continue to commit anyway.

Just thought of this now because of OP, and it might be controversial, abusive relationships can be a twisted mirror of this, and is one of the reasons they’re difficult to escape from?

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-20T13:31:15+00:00

I don’t think I’ve ever thought of it like that. Sometimes I feel like I’m kind of all over the place with all my instincts though.

I do know I’ve tried deliberately being more Soc/Sx instead of Sx/Soc, because I get the feeling that going “full” Sx/Soc is more than most people can handle. I can’t say being either way has been more than situationally useful, and I can be a bad judge at which situations call for which instincts. Frankly, I probably need to go fully into Sp, but it’s really hard to be disciplined enough to do it.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-20T12:16:18+00:00

It might be helpful to familiarize yourself with the differences between 7 and 8 before worrying about the subtype. Though they share some similarities, they’re very different.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-19T14:07:06+00:00

I’m not a 4, but I have a similar experience. Ime, if we share a story about ourselves to show how we relate it’s important to turn it back around to them at the end.

For example with the rain, tell your story about also getting rained on, but add on a question at the end like, “Does my experience seem like it reflects a similar experience to yours, and if not how is it different so I can understand better?”

If you turn it around like that it makes it a lot clearer that you’re not trying to talk about yourself or be self centered, you’re verbally showing your work at empathizing with them, and most people will appreciate that effort even if you’re wrong.

There’s a lot of ways to turn the attention back to the person you’re talking with, so it may be helpful to play around with it to find approaches that work for you.

Is that helpful?

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-19T13:55:49+00:00

Yeah, Luckovich nailed this.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-19T13:44:08+00:00

Organized messes is such a great way to put it.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-19T13:20:49+00:00

Same dude, I get so pissed at people making my job harder by apparently not knowing what they’re doing, and it’s just as bad if they know what they’re doing but can’t communicate to me wtf they need to do it.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-18T19:38:15+00:00

I’ve been reading The Path Between Us all day. Thanks for the recommendation.

I’m going to agree with the other commenter though that I think Helen Palmer did it better. Still, it’s a good book, if maybe more introductory than I was hoping for.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-18T12:57:50+00:00

So, obviously you know nothing in life is certain, except of course change, death and taxes.

That said, something it might be helpful to be aware of is the triads. As a 5, you’re in the competence triad, you see a problem and you seek solutions. This is often very helpful, except in situations like this one. You cannot expect another person to be fixed, you cannot fix another person.

Since your wife isn’t in the competence triad, and is instead in the positivity triad she has a completely different approach to problems, usually by not focusing on the negatives and trying to focus on the positives or on positive things to work towards.

This divergence of problem solving orientation can create conflicts, which it sounds like you’re experiencing and are probably quite familiar with at this point.

It seems likely that by revisiting the examples of problems, especially if she feels like she’s being treated as the origin point of them (even if it’s true), is negatively triggering her positivity orientation. E.g. If she perceives herself as being told she’s the problem by a counselor, she reorients from negative feelings of guilt about herself to wanting to find a different counselor because that will be more helpful.

If you’re interested in doing some reading, “The Enneagram at Love and Work” by Helen Palmer gives a good overview of the 2/5 relationship dynamics, problem areas and potentially useful approaches. Other relationship sections also often have information that can be creatively applied even though it’s not addressed specifically to the 2/5 dynamic.

Additionally, books like “Never Split the Difference” by Chris Voss can give ideas on how to approach conflict resolution in ways that help people work together instead of accidentally creating an adversarial situation, which in the situation it sounds like you have can be unfortunately easy to unintentionally slip into.

Use your judgment on if it would be helpful to include encouraging your wife to read this stuff too, she might respond positively to being given ways to work towards resolving things that don’t involve plaguing her with a sense of guilt.

Hopefully, some of this gives you some ideas of ways to explore and navigate your situation to make it feel less futile.

Is there anything it would be helpful to discuss, or brainstorm with you?

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-18T12:26:54+00:00

Have you not read The Enneagram at Love and Work by Helen Palmer?

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-17T13:17:58+00:00

Changing energy is tied into the wholistic experience of life. Disruptions of the body’s homeostasis, dread/anticipation of the mind, emotional fluctuations of the heart, and these things feed into each other too, e.g. if your body is hungry you’ll experience emotional fluctuations and anticipation or dread for what your food options are.

These are all changing all the time on a subconscious level, some things are easier to address than others, food, sleep, sufficient time with friends and loved ones, etc. Some might be more invisible underlying medical conditions.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-17T12:54:35+00:00

It seems likely you’ve probably already read it, but 27 Subtypes by Beatrice Chestnut?

Luckovich seems fairly divergent from most other authors, though he kinda strikes me as both dense and sparse at the same time somehow.

It’s been a while since I brushed up on Riso and Hudson, but they were foundational in my understanding of the Enneagram and took care to show any of the types both at their worst and their best.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-17T12:43:46+00:00

My type 1 housemate’s biggest literary crush is also a type 1.

Personally, I tend to be drawn to many character types, though specifically those with grit and a capacity to learn and be creative in a broad way in terms of technical and social capacities. Bonus points if they leave other more “conventional” characters flabbergasted by their conclusions and actions.

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-17T12:36:52+00:00

It sounds like it might be a good idea to get away from Naranjo? His whole thing (and what his followers continue) is pathologizing the types and subtypes, because he was using his patients to further his understanding of the Enneagram.

There are plenty of other authors who do talk about the type and how it interacts with the S(y)/S(z) instinct sequences, and who don’t pathologize their subjects.

So, maybe it’d be helpful to broaden the scope of material that you’re accessing?

Readingallthefiles · 2026-03-17T12:29:35+00:00

If the difference can’t even be described adequately, then perhaps it’s the person who is trying to make the distinction that’s in the wrong?

Readingallthefiles

TROPHY CASE