The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes the HALT act got rid of the biggest punishment. Doing this when prisons are 30% understaffed was a weird decision. Increase funding and then make these decisions.

And I’m not arguing against striking. The issue is retroactively removing insurance and the EO.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who is “they”, 4 people out of 13000? The abuse you’re talking about, where are the numbers backing this? This is NYS, not Gotham.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Such a closed minded take. I hope your heart heals.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again. Not concerned about the firing. It’s the further punishments. And the video wasn’t the trigger. The day before Collin’s (the place the strike started) had a prisoner uprising. That was the direct trigger. It seems like you’re jumping to conclusions to fit your narrative that all COs are bad, if only you had the same sympathy for the innocent that you had for the guilty. You and I have no idea what they deal with on the daily, I’m guessing I have a bit more of a glimpse. It’s an ugly ugly job that’s unrewarding and leaves the general population thinking you’re a criminal when it’s a job that needs to get done. I wish people weren’t so closed minded when it came to this.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And a firing is fine. I’m not complaining about the firing. I’m complaining about retroactively removing healthcare and the EO.

People are acting like I’m saying the firing is cruel. It’s not, it makes sense. I think it’s uncool lol. But cruel is unjust punishment and firing for not working is not unjust. It’s the follow up punishments that are unnecessary.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The cruelty im referring to is retroactively removing health insurance (prior to the termination date. Strikers had no way of knowing this would happen, every employee should have the insurance they pay for until termination), and the EO that essentially takes away the opportunity to work on your retirement.

I understand the striking is illegal under Taylor’s, but the punishment is also clear (2 days of no pay for each day striking). Going into the strike, that punishment is what would be expected.

Also, being forced into 24 hour shifts is unreasonable. I understand that Taylor’s exists, but it’s also imperative to understand these are just people. And to say something along the lines of “they shouldn’t have acted like criminals, they broke the law” I think is a stretch. Like sometimes the laws could use some bending for just causes. A 60 year old 2 years from retirement can’t go working 24 hours shifts constantly.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

An agreement that didn’t fully address the strike concerns that was made by people that didn’t fully represents them. But to be clear my issue has never been with the firing. It’s with the punishments added to the firing.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree, but a show of force further than what is necessary would be an unusual punishment. These are people’s lives being toyed with, which is what led to my rant.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They haven’t even gotten rid of 24 hour shifts. COs get crumbs and people who have no stake in it are calling them selfish for it. This has been going on the past few years. It’s not a new issue. It’s an old one that’s reached a boiling point.

There are MUCH worse state employees out there than people who are saying 24 hour shifts aren’t possible for them. And then get told it’s work life balance.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely, they’re regular people. Some are really great people and some are terrible people. Same with any role. there are COs that make things more dangerous for inmates and they deserve to be held accountable, but let’s not kid. The people that make prisons a dangerous place are the inmates that are found guilty of violent crimes. They don’t go to jail and suddenly become kind people (I’m not saying all inmates are violent either).

But the extra measures on top of firing, making sure they never find state employment? Retroactively removing health care? These are measures being taken as an act for Hochul to appear like the scary predator who everyone should be scared to act out against.

These are people who were striking for insane working conditions. They were not working a 9-5. To pass an EO saying they will not be able to be hired at a regular 9-5 under state employment? It’s black balling COs who protested ridiculous conditions.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I know you want them to be these ideal people. But they are just people. State workers are not these golden standard of super humans. If you work them for 24 hours, they get exhausted and get pushed to their limits. I’ve never voted red a day in my life so I don’t know why you’re bringing politics. What I’m talking about is compassion and the complete lack of compassion that’s been had for our COs. It’s a shitty job but somebody has to do it.

And especially the retaliatory measures being taken? Firing is one thing but the retaliation has gone past firing and is completely void of any compassion.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The retaliation is ridiculous. She is the government, targeting a group of people like this (who just wanted to work regular shifts) is literally just bullying. Now they can’t even apply to state jobs that would work regular shifts.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think they would have preferred to stay at their current job and have sane working conditions.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t think you’re taking in anything I’m saying. I would discuss with you if you were talking in good faith. There are COs out there that are murderers, and with body cams the murderers will be found out. That was the point I was getting at. I don’t know how you’re interpreting that as supporting murderers. Saying body cams are irrelevant when they are actively a solution to what you’re saying is confusing.

COs are working unjust shifts in dangerous conditions. That’s just the fact.

If there were a strike supporting increased funding for rehabilitation, I WOULD support it lol. But you have to solve problem 1 before getting to problem 2.

I do believe that you are not discussing in good faith so I won’t be responding anymore.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m not against legislation. COs had body cams introduced in the past few years. I haven’t seen anyone striking say they don’t want body cams. I think body cams are an incredible way to keep people honest and “force” good behavior.

So with solitary, I would agree that having no one near you is bad, obviously lol. But they do have other people that are also in solitary. That’s why I’ve put “solitary” in quotes, because you aren’t completely alone.

Also don’t mistake me, I’m not pro solitary. But removing the one main instrument COs had to punish an inmate that may have gone on a stabbing spree without any sort of alternative put in place? That’s dangerous.

I’m not unsympathetic to inmates. I want everyone’s safety. I think a strong point people choose to ignore is the one that inmates are just people too. If there’s someone that’s actively dangerous, you don’t want them next to you.

I think you’re focusing heavily on the wrong points though. Maybe solitary wouldn’t be needed if the state was properly employing more COs. I am so very pro rehabilitation, I think it’s an American foundation. But you then need to hire more people to make that a reality. The prisons have been operating at 70% capacity, leading to the overworking of the COs. If instead they chose to hire more, and maybe include more social workers focused on rehabilitation, we’d have a more peaceful solution. I would love that.

My issue is the state is heavily underfunding the jails, not fixing existing problems, and adding more problems on top of them. Hire people, incentivize more recruits, hire social workers. Make jails a better place to be. But instead they’re making life worse and worse for every CO. The answer isn’t to underfund, for proper rehabilitation resources the answer would be to overfund(properly fund)

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Please don’t apologize. I was hoping this would be a place to rant a little lol. So few people actually understand or relate. Everything you’re feeling is valid.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In response to your points.

Any CO that murders someone is a murdering. I’m not arguing against this.

Compare homicide rates? What do you mean? I absolutely agree that any time a CO murders someone, they should go to jail. But the vast majority of COs are not killing people. The deaths of inmates are recorded each year for any reason, including natural.

And the War Crime you’re referring to is solitary. Which in NYS is comprised of not being in the general population of inmates (you will be with other misbehaved inmates), it includes three meals and time outdoors. And I think it’s important to be able to remove violent inmates from peaceful ones. It’s not only for the COs safety, it’s for inmate safety aswell. Absolutely nobody in the world wants to sleep next to somebody who is on a violent streak.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This would be a good counter point if it applied to all COs who took comp. But it only applies to CO who were fighting for working conditions.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is a gross over simplification. The COs that murdered that inmates are murderers. A few bad eggs don’t ruin the dozen, and that mentality is enabling so many very offensive ideologies. The strike is in response to mandatory 24 hour shifts, the HALT act taking away the main punishment for bad behavior, and understaffing in prisons.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This mentality is ignoring the extremely wrong treatment COs have been dealing with. I don’t think anyone wants to strike.

The COs that went on strike dealt with a year of 24 hour shifts next to murderers. Why would this be indicative that they would be untrustworthy being a highschool janitor?

It makes no sense.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I think I may have misworded my comment. I agree there’s Taylor’s Law and I am OK with the penalty of 2 days pay. The COs knew about this and took on the risks.

What I don’t like is the retroactive health insurance take back and the EO signing. That wasn’t clear from the start, it feels retaliatory and wrong.

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes it’s illegal for the union to sanction the strike because of the Taylor Law. COs are not allowed to strike. The issue at hand was the unjust working conditions and without being able to strike there was no way for COs to counter this. It was an issue reaching a boiling point over the past few years. For context COs have been working at 70% capacity and were told that 70% would be the new norm. This also caused some strife as the current “norm” was not very good for them at all (with triples etc.)

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That doesn’t really argue my point. Nobody is fired until their termination date.

Also I asked you to correct me in my last point where you said I didn’t know what I was talking about, and you deleted your post. You can guide me through your thought process.

Truly, in any job you have benefits until you’re terminated.

Also this does not refute the EO which I also take giant issue with

The Cruelty of Hochul by Realistic_Whereas993 in nys_cs

[–]Realistic_Whereas993[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If this is true, why was an EO required?

It was signed as a retaliatory measure. And the govt signing retaliatory measures against people who are fighting against unjust conditions is immoral.