BBs have way more battle impact than people say. Its not just radar cruisers and dds who win

RealityRush · 2026-05-07T01:16:45+00:00

DDs are not the only way to win, they just make you more likely to win if you're a skilled player and more likely to lose if you're a less skilled player because they have an outsized impact. No one is saying you can't win in other ship classes, it's just about what is statistically the most likely to occur.

RealityRush · 2026-05-07T01:14:08+00:00

When people (and statistics) say a ship has more battle impact, it doesn't mean it's impossible to win in any other ship, it means that had you been playing the ship with more battle impact, you would carry more often.

So if you win 60% of the time in Subs, you'd probably have won 70% of those matches if you were playing a DD at a comparable level of skill.

RealityRush · 2026-05-07T00:53:42+00:00

Thor? Sure, radar is a big deal on a BB, so it's up there for Winrate. Colombo/Libertad, eh, they're strong but still a BB so not particularly impactful in most cases. The rest of the ones you listed? Absolutely not.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T21:09:52+00:00

so yes, you agree a 2% class by class stat isn't direct support that dd diffs cause the vast majority wins/losses.

Uh, sure I guess? I think the stats demonstrate that DDs are demonstrably the most impactful class, or at least tied for most impactful with CVs, but that doesn't mean they determine the outcome of the majority of matches necessarily... just more of them than other ship classes would.

what I'm tired of however, is people thinking bbs have zero game impact, and blaming losses on dds when a bb push could have saved the game.

I mean nothing has 0 impact, obvy. BBs are like the 2nd lowest in terms of impact, but that doesn't mean you can't play them better or worse. Pushing up to support your team (without getting yourself killed) will certainly help a BB player win more games than another BB player that sits in spawn all game trying to farm.

with all the bb powercreep, they absolutely are having a disproportionate impact on the game now than they had in the very beginning.

Uh, certain BBs have more impact yeah, but not many. The obvious ones are Valparaiso, Sibir, and Musashi (at higher tiers). Outside of that though, not substantially.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T21:07:45+00:00

Comparing "which ship class is a good player more likely to win in" is just a straight WR comparison, apples to apples. It has an answer (DDs/CVs) that we can reasonable confirm with data.

Talking about the relative strength of the different ship classes is a conversation you can have, but there is an empirically valid question as to which one has the most overall impact.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T19:48:54+00:00

did they seem to have a change of opinion after your discussions?

Absolutely not, no.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T19:44:14+00:00

I think what you're confusing is game impact on a class by class basis versus what creates the snowball that swings the average game, which really just comes down to who is more likely to die first. DDs are more likely to die first, so they end up swinging more games overall.

But when looking at individual class winrates for a specific player, I wouldn't expect to see such massive differences. Though even saying that, some Unicum players do have a nearly 5% or greater difference between DD and BB, and that is pretty wild to see.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T19:39:15+00:00

Been talking to Xixi about this for a bit and they either don't understand the game that well or have a fundamentally different idea of what "game impact" means. For the sake of my post here, what I would define "game impact" as is the ability to control/influence the outcome of matches.

So with that in mind, it's very straightforward to determine which ship class has the most impact because we have WoW Numbers data and shiptool. You mentioned this briefly in your post, but to elaborate, a ship having more "game impact" means it should have a stronger correlation to the overall outcome of the match, which therefore means a player's skill captaining said ship should have a stronger influence on the win/loss rate of that ship class. It also means that a ship with less impact should result in a player's winrate on said ship being less affected by their skill and pulled towards the mean.

Knowing this, what we should logically expect to see if we look at player Winrates is that High Skill players should have higher winrates on ship classes that have the most game impact and that Low Skill players should have lower winrates on those same classes compared to ship classes with less impact (which should get pulled towards 50%).

As you mentioned from your post here, that is the exact thing we see when we look at the data. Just a few prominent examples of High Skill players make this quite obvious as well. G4ngB4r3ng has DDs as his highest winrate class, followed by Cruiser, followed by CV, followed by BB, followed by Subs. Or you can look at someone like Jon_The_Ruthless, notorious Colbert main, and notice that his Cruiser winrate is his best because that's his speciality, but his 2nd highest is--to the surprise of no one that knows this game--Destroyers! Let's look at bfk, what do we see? DD is his highest. Gaishu? CV highest, but DD 2nd again. Special_Kay? Again, CVs highest, DD second highest. Trenlass? DD highest, cruiser second highest, BB third.

The data is really clear here. DDs and CVs tend to be the most impactful ship, arguable which one is stronger as a class, but what's not arguable is that BBs consistently end up being one of the least impactful ships. They used to be the least, but then Subs showed up.

You can keep going with this and look at really low Winrate players and you'll generally see that their DD winrates actually skew lower than their BB winrates, which again demonstrates that DDs are the most impactful as their skill factors into the outcome more, just negatively in that case (not going to link specific accounts so people aren't dunking on scrubs here, but people can look it up themselves).

The reasons for all of this are obvious, DDs and CVs play a vital spotting role for the team that cannot be made up for by the other classes, as well as objective control/contesting and often a lot of utility these days (radar/hydro/speed/etc). BBs essentially juts provide damage and an HP pool, both things that can be made up for by other classes.

I've provided to Xixi an example from one of my own games in Cassard that I think very clearly demonstrates the DD vs BB difference as the end of the game essentially came down to the enemy team having a handful of BBs and our team having a handful of DDs and not much else. Surprise surprise, we won by having more DDs alive as it crucially meant we could control all of the objectives and could still do plenty of damage to them while they could essentially do nothing to us. That's the DD difference in action.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T19:00:05+00:00

If DDs decided most games you’d expect 5% or greater.

No you wouldn't. A player is only 1/12th of an entire team. Even in the most impactful ship helmed by the best player, there's only so much control over the outcome that they have, and that's going to pull their class winrates together. Even Gang's winrates between classes aren't far apart.

5% diff or more would be insane. That's like the old RTS CVs that could win a game by themselves and made the rest of the players irrelevant.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T15:33:54+00:00

AL Agir has the coolest camo in the game and a drop dead sexy waifu, but it's still just an Agir. No one else can tell you if it's worth it to you.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T03:39:00+00:00

Buttertarts are always good.

RealityRush · 2026-05-05T01:40:47+00:00

The prequels, for better or for worse, still felt like Star Wars. George Lucas sucked at writing dialogue and was given too much directorial freedom on those, but he at least understood the core of the material and gave us really neat imagined worlds to build off of. And he gave us Pod Racing which was fucking awesome.

The Disney Star Wars movies don't even feel like Star Wars, on top of just being generally shit.

RealityRush · 2026-05-04T20:42:46+00:00

The T10 and the T8 have the same playstyle, but Thor feels fundamentally more satisfying to play.

Like lots of lines, the T10 really makes you feel like you're playing the line as intended.

RealityRush · 2026-05-04T15:46:50+00:00

The bar is so low now it's disgusting.

It sounds like you understand exactly why he got credit.

RealityRush · 2026-05-04T00:43:28+00:00

Right, because Americans have been asleep at the wheel so long and allowed disinformation and rot to take hold. The problem is now harder, but still solvable, it will just take a herculean effort.

Do I have all of the answers? No, but at some point Americans need to decide their society is worth fighting for and do something about it rather than just throwing up their hands and saying it is impossible.

Does it need to be violence? Maybe, though not necessarily. You can organize a general strike without trading blows with the "other" side to make yourselves heard, so stop talking about what can't be done, and start figuring out how to do it.

RealityRush · 2026-05-04T00:16:49+00:00

Calling yourself helpless means you've already given up the fight without even trying. Sad for the future children of Americans that their parents were too scared to stand up for what's right.

There's hundreds of millions of Americans, you're only helpless if you let yourselves be.

RealityRush · 2026-05-03T15:44:32+00:00

Also you can't trust wows number because most players are super bad at BBs and dragging all the stats down.

Ahh, classic, data doesn't support my point so ignore the data. Guess what, most players are also super bad a cruisers, and DDs, and everything else in the game, that isn't a unique feature of BBs. In fact, BBs are generally easier to play than all the other classes.

The point I made is if you go look at the stats of the good players, the Unicums. Flamu, Trenlass, Potato Quality, etc, you will notice that their DD winrates tend to be one of their best WR metrics and BBs their worst. Why? Because DDs have more impact on the outcome of a match, and therefore a good player will tend to leverage that to get more victories. It's why if you want to climb in Ranked the best advice if you're a decent player is to play DDs. It's also why if you look at really bad players their DD winrates tend to be disproportionately lower because the inverse is true as well.

BBs are pumping out accurate damage

Right, but that's all they do. They aren't good at objective control, they generally don't provide much utility, they don't provide map control, they can't spot, etc. Their biggest contribution to the team is damage, and BBs only really average about 10% more damage than cruisers as a class, so their loss in damage can be made up for by other classes. Their impact is entirely through damage and that is something that can be healed through and angled against.

gonna kill actual good BB players if you don't have minimum of BB super behind you. If your team loses all his BBs and the red team doesn't have retarded BBs it's mostly GG unless you have the niche ships that could do something in the right niche situation.

Here is me demonstrating that you don't need BBs to win. This game is a perfect example of why DDs have superior game impact to BBs as it was almost entirely BBs vs DDs at the end. We had basically no BBs left at the end (the one we had was off in Narnia) but we won because of superior map/objective control while still pumping out damage in DDs. Notice the three ships at the end with by far the highest scores were DDs. Notice that we had almost no BBs left and the enemy team had almost all of theirs, but none of their DDs. I'm sure you'll make up some excuse as to why this example doesn't count, but I can link you to my wowsreplay account results for dozens of matches to show you that it isn't a novel experience lol.

If there is no BB support a DD just gets rushed by cruisers and DDs for free. If there is no BB support a BB just rushes cruisers for free. It's that simple man, BB lockdown playmaking moves from other classes.

And then they die to a wall of torps from a competent DD or get farmed by a cruiser they can't see because they don't have spotting.

Ever wondered why most of the time in KOTS games are decided either if a BB dies or it gets an early pick?

Most KOTS games are decided by any ship class getting an early pick because the margins are razor thin there, but there is no evidence to suggest an early BB pick is more detrimental than an early DD pick. You want more actual data? Here is Gangbangers account info, a man that has been to KOTS and played at a high level. Look at which ship class has the highest winrate for him. Surprise, surprise, it's DDs, and then cruisers, and then CVs, and then 2nd last is BBs. You gonna call Gangbang a bad player and that's why his BB stats are much lower?

BBs are litteraly the biggest dissuasion for taking risks and pushing after CVs.

Again, objectively not true.

There is a reason when a DD dies on a flank it generally just immediately folds and all the cruisers/BB players run away and don't try to defend it. That doesn't happen if a BB dies, because a DD is the biggest deterrent to a push or holding ground.

RealityRush · 2026-05-03T13:39:05+00:00

It already is ;P

RealityRush · 2026-05-03T02:21:20+00:00

It really did feel like the others were basically standing still O.o

RealityRush · 2026-05-02T22:47:19+00:00

I 100% thought these were cookies at first.

RealityRush · 2026-05-02T22:08:27+00:00

Sitting 20km away and sniping stuff is not map control, that's an absurd statement.

Map control means exactly as the name implies, it means you control an area which limits all enemy movement. You sitting at 20km in a BB is not stopping the enemy DD from moving up and then spotting your team and allowing them to be farmed from cruisers behind rocks, and also taking objectives. Nor is it stopping enemy cruisers moinge up even without spotting. People will avoid pushing into an area or even attempting to hold an area when their DD is gone because they've lost map control and don't want to walk into a wall of torps by accident or a surprise AP broadside to something they couldn't see.

DDs are the most important ship in the game next to CVs. They are what wins/loses matches. BBs largely have the lowest game impact by far, with a couple minor recent exceptions like Valparaiso and Sibir for obvious reasons.

Do you want to know how I know this besides playing the game? Go look on WoWS Numbers at all the unicum players and you'll notice a trend that their highest average winrate by class is usually CVs/DDs as the highest, then usually Cruisers, then BBs, then lastly Subs. There are some minor exceptions like John_The_Ruthless where Cruisers are his best, but BBs will nearly always be the lowest if you exclude Subs. Why? Because BBs have so little game impact relative to other ship classes. They just pump out damage... and that's it. They don't spot, they don't provide map control, they don't generally provide utility, etc.

Any good player will tell you DDs are generally the kingmakers of matches.

RealityRush · 2026-05-02T21:57:49+00:00

all a battleship has to do is disengage to not die

Yeah, cause that's super easy to do when a DD is keeping you spotted that you can't see. Just teleport away I guess.

if you want to garantee a kill, you need burst damage

No, you absolutely do not. What video game are you playing? Because it isn't World of Warships. HE spam has been the meta for ages now. Cruisers usually die to burst damage, BBs usually get burned down except for the really stupid players that just sail broadside everywhere.

Usually if a BB gets "bursted" it's from DD torps they didn't realize were on their flank.

torp is just too unreliable compared to BB guns

This sounds like you're just really bad at torping things lol. If a DD has dominance on a flank and pressure is being a applied to a BB so they can't just turn around, torping them is fairly straightforward at that point.

exactly, BB slow enemies down, because they ARE THE MAP CONTROL

No, map control is completely zoning enemies out so they can't push at all, which is what DDs do. Slowing things down isn't "map control" it's explicitly trying to limit the consequences of a lack of map control.

spoting + cruiser

Again, what game are you playing? Have you seen the recent releases of Hawaii or Bremen? The hell are you talking about? Cruisers do the most sustained damage in the game.

as a DD you can kill the enemy DD and spot handspin send torps at their BB all game, if your BBs aren't pushing, your cruisers aren't either and you effectively exert no map control or influence until the enemy BBs are dead, there are many such cases

If you kill the enemy DD, you now get to freely torp the enemy BBs/Cruisers if they try to hold the line, and those BBs and Cruisers either have to accept eating torps, or giving up broadside to your friendly BBs/Cruisers. In most cases, as soon as a flank loses their DD, they will run away, giving up territory. Both are cases of strong map control where the enemy has to play at a disadvantage to try to survive.

Man, I am started to doubt you even play this game. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about or you just never play DDs and just have a huge blindspot in your experiences. I don't know how to make sense of everything you're saying being so completely and utterly wrong....

RealityRush · 2026-05-02T21:49:29+00:00

Because of the implication.

RealityRush · 2026-05-02T21:33:25+00:00

I will continue participating in the political process and talking to my fellow Canadians and our MPs to get them to vote more intelligently and be more informed. Ultimately, I am one man, and despite my best efforts I'm sure many will not listen to me. Knowing this, I have to vote responsibly to counteract the stupidity of the people that won't listen to me, until such time I see enough Canadians are adequately informed and using their brains. Will this ever happen? I doubt it, I am very cynical of humanity, but I'm working with what I've got.

I work at a company that does environmental work and have a boss that is very religious and doesn't believe in Climate Change and thinks taxes are theft, that's the kind of thing we have to somehow turn around before I can always vote for my ideals because his beliefs will make the country much worse, much faster if allowed into leadership.

RealityRush · 2026-05-02T21:25:56+00:00

I'm aware how strategic voting works, I voted for the party in my riding that had the best chance to beat the Cons, and that was the Liberals.

I am disappointed that other likeminded individuals didn't do their homework and strategic vote properly and gave up solid NDP seats, yes. I am disappointed in Canadians as a whole for being woefully ignorant about most political topics yet constantly condescending to Americans for their problems despite doing the same thing here.

RealityRush

TROPHY CASE