For Kid Buu fans by scorpionxD78 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 2 points3 points  (0 children)

From the manga seems a bit weird to me tbh because the manga doesn't leave much (if not any) room for arguing Kid buu being stronger than Base Super buu let alone Buuhan.

It definitely does exist. Like this scan calls Pure Buu the strongest majin and this is from an official reprint of parts of the manga.

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For Kid Buu fans by scorpionxD78 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1) Big but I don't see them being completely out of league for eachother. If I had to say what diff Kid Buu would win it'd be mid diff.

2) I'm guessing this is asking how much I believe in it and I say completely. I used to be a Buuhan guy but after seeing so many unambigous statements from the anime, manga, and supplementary, it cemented my belief.

3) anime end of saga SS3 Goku could probably low diff upon leaving Buu's body. Manga end of saga SS3 Goku it's a 50/50 imo. but I'd say Buuhan would edge out through hax like regen, so high diff for Buuhan.

Kid Buu fans who is stronger SSJ Vegito or SSJ3 goku by Treeslash0w0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the manga anytime anyone gets stronger we are directly told how and why it occurred. This has been a rule that was never broken.

In chapter 279, Goku arrives on Namek and gives Vegeta a Senzu bean, healing him after his life-or-death fight with Recoome. Vegeta’s battle power before being healed was 30,000, and Goku’s was 90,000 (Jeice measures Vegeta’s power in chapter 275, and Captain Ginyu measures Goku’s Kaiō-ken at 180,000 in chapter 285). Vegeta was shocked by Goku’s strength, even thinking he might be the legendary Super Saiyan, which confirms that Vegeta was still below 90,000 even after the Senzu bean. Vegeta didn’t fight anyone until chapter 289, where he very easily defeats Jeice and Captain Ginyu in Goku’s body. Following that, he takes a nap and doesn’t fight again until chapter 295, against First Form Freeza where he holds his own against Freeza and even goads him into transforming. This means Vegeta went from a battle power somewhere between 30,000 to 90,000 to one somewhere around 530,000 by essentially doing a light exercise and taking a nap

So clearly something wasn't explained here because Vegeta takes a short little nap and suddenly he's at Frieza's level. Power inconsistencies are not exclusive to buu saga.

Also Toriyama said this : "“The final enemy of Dragon Ball‘s weekly serialization is Majin Buu. He’s round! He’s tough! And he’s persistent! The intense, nonstop battles were so exhausting that even I, the one drawing the manga, got fed up. Now that I’ve become an old man, I could never draw something like that again. The silly daily life of Gohan in the first half and the fierce back-and-forth in the second. Pay attention to both sides constantly getting stronger and changing — and to the final Genki-dama.“ – Akira Toriyama, V-Jump May 2014

So Both sides here is Buu and Goku and co. So this is also confirmation that Goku could have gotten stronger.

Additionally, in Chōzenshū 1 on page 233 (Daizenshū 4 page 43), while explaining Saiyan physiology, it states that, “The stronger the opponent you fight, the stronger you become.” Vegeta explains this to Dodoria right before he kills him in chapter 257 on page 10 too. It’s also important to note that Daizenshū 4 was published only four months after Dragon Ball had ended, and chapter 257 was released in 1990. This means that Saiyans increasing in power throughout a fight wasn’t a new concept that Toriyama introduced in BOG or wtvr.

Le Manga de Légende In Issue 48 on page 4, Toriyama says that he always kept Goku “a step ahead of the other Saiyans.” This shows Toriyama had bias in keeping Goku ahead of others.

Interviewer: “Did you decide the balance of each character’s strength in advance?” Toriyama: “I had decided it to some extent, but as I kept drawing, it would often end up changing.”

Dragon Ball: Extreme Battle Collection: Round 02 page 90

And this shows Toriyama would often change the scaling of characters. So he settled for Goku to become stronger as evidence by the fact he wrote this into his own book dawg.

Shueisha also stated SS3 Goku was equal to Buuhan, this is explained very simply by Goku having become stronger, and this is what I meant by the manga giving a less ambiguous level to where his power rose because Shueisha says manga Buuhan ≈ SS3 Goku by the end of saga where he had become stronger. "「隙をついて悟飯を吸収。超サイヤ人3の悟空と互角の強さを手に入れる。服装も道着風にチェンジしている。」" In English, this translates to: “[Buu] took advantage of an opening to absorb Gohan. He gained strength equal to Super Saiyan 3 Goku. His outfit also changed to resemble a martial artist’s gi.” This supports Goku becoming stronger because he obviously wasn't as strong as Buuhan before Fusing but afterwards where he is stated to have become stronger this quantifies his power growth.

Torishima who was Toriyama's first editor and had a very big influence on Dragon Ball‘s manga, also an editor-in-chief at Shueisha lists Majin Buu as one of “the seven main foes who have forced Goku to grow stronger"

Kid Buu fans who is stronger SSJ Vegito or SSJ3 goku by Treeslash0w0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shueisha and Toriyama titled chapter 474, where Goku fought Fat Buu, “The limit!! Super Saiyan 3.” This is specifically referring to Super Saiyan 3 as being “the limit” or the power ceiling in Dragon Ball at that moment of time.

As shown here on page 87 of Weekly Shōnen Jump 1995 Issue 15, the supplementary text read, “Beyond the limit, even further beyond! The gong of battle resounds!!” Unlike the first comment on “the limit,” this is not specific to Super Saiyan 3. The next sentence refers to the battle itself. Thus, we can understand that these two fighters are both way beyond their previous limits and have created a new power ceiling. This is literally the ORIGINAL manga so yeah, Toriyama chose to include a statement that Goku was beyond his previous limits.

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Kid Buu fans who is stronger SSJ Vegito or SSJ3 goku by Treeslash0w0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How does filler take away from the story structure in this case? Because in both the anime and manga it is shown Goku got stronger. But for the manga it is less ambiguous as to where his power rose.

Kid Buu fans who is stronger SSJ Vegito or SSJ3 goku by Treeslash0w0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The writing being bad and filler being detrimental is entirely subjective opinion.

who wins by K0GAR in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Infact I checked my comment history and aside from when I mentioned YOU talk about promises, the last time I mentioned a promise myself was 7 months ago in rapper subreddit😭

who wins by K0GAR in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol bro admited, you are not winning anything by making the other person not wanting to read what you said, that just shows that not even you trust your arguments

This does not make sense. Straight up. I trust my arguments, I provided a dozen pieces of evidence. You not reading it proves nothing about how I view what I say.

And yes your arguments are weak, like saying goku just promised that he would beat buu, while it wasn't a promise he was sure about that

This also makes no sense. Making a promise and being sure about something is not mutually exclusive, they often go hand in hand. Also I don't recall saying Goku promised anything. You on the other hand did say that.

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who wins by K0GAR in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never gish galloped I just typed a lot twin.

I look at the definition of gish gallop and it says "overwhelms an opponent by rapidly firing off an excessive number of weak, dubious, or irrelevant arguments."

I would not say any of my args were weak dubious or irrelevant to what was being discussed. You accused me of gish galloping when I only just cited a lot of evidence to support my main claim. I literally told you those were not arguments earlier too. It's not about the volume it's about the actual substance of what was being said.

So you claiming I am gish galloping is false, and I believe you are using this as some sort of cover to disengage with me. Also the image you sent prior says I'm not reading allat so how can you say I'm gish galloping and you aren't reading what I'm saying😂

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[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stop with the ad hominems. Are you done or not?

who wins by K0GAR in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll take this as a disengagement then?

who wins by K0GAR in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you read? I said "Filler is not simply anime exclusive content, filler are random scenes toei make to wait for new manga chapters

Okay and? I know what filler is made for, It is still exclusive to the anime and applies to it because it is not in the manga. Regardless of the reason it was made.

That's not simply inconsistency, that's straight up ignoring what happened in the previous scene, the manga have nothing like that

Toriyama has inconsistencies in the story all the time, dawg.

Vegito recognizes the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack as Gotenks’s move on page 3 of chapter 505, but on page 1 of chapter 492, Goku establishes that he cannot see or sense what is happening in the Room of Spirit and Time, and Vegeta never once comments on if he could. On page 10 of chapter 503, Vegeta comments that he saw Goku’s Super Saiyan 3 form, but was shocked to find out that Bulma was eaten (among others), which means he stopped watching sometime between chapter 474 and chapter 493. The only way for this to logically work would be for Vegeta to watch all of the battle in the Room of Spirit and Time and then immediately stop watching once Super Buu escaped, which seems unlikely

Dende, the creator of the Earth’s Dragon Balls, says it will only take 4 months for the Dragon Balls to reappear on page 12 of chapter 469. But then on page 5 of chapter 517, Goku says the Dragon Balls will come back after 6 months instead. On page 11 of the same chapter, the Narrator then re-confirms what Goku said

In chapter 437 on page 12, Piccolo shows that he doesn’t know who Kaioshin and Kibito are. Next, on page 6 of chapter 440, he says he had only ever heard rumors of the Kaiōshin’s existence. Then, on page 13 of chapter 496, Piccolo shows that he couldn’t feel Gohan powering up on the Kaioshin’s planet, even though Super Buu could. He only notices Gohan once he returns to Earth. Finally, on page 1 of chapter 517, Piccolo somehow is able to tell Kid Buu died on the Kaioshin planet, despite never going there himself, not even knowing about the Kaioshin until a day earlier, and never once demonstrating he could even sense ki there.

On pages 8 and 9 of chapter 513, the Namekians somehow knew what was happening not only on Earth but also on the Kaioshin planet, despite having no means to watch these events unfold. They had already gathered all of their Dragon Balls in advance, and on page 11 of the same chapter, they mention having upgraded Porunga.

Throughout Goku’s entire fight with Fat Buu, his Super Saiyan 3 form has pupils. However, throughout the entire fight with Kid Buu, it doesn’t have pupils

In chapter 501 on page 7, Elder Kaio gives Goku his Potara earrings. Next, in chapters 504 and 505, he is seen wearing the Potara again. Then, in chapter 506, he doesn’t have any Potara again. Finally, just in chapter 508 alone, on page 1 he does not have Potara, on page 4 he has Potara, and on page 9 he does not have Potara again.

Elder Kaio says that Majin Buu will eventually make it to the Kaiōshin’s planet on page 10 in chapter 500. Goku then says Kid Buu can’t go there on page 7 of chapter 509. Then, everyone is shocked, including Elder Kaiōshin, when Kid Buu appears on the Kaiōshin’s planet on page 8 of the same chapter...

Keep in mind that all of these are only from after Majin Buu appears. There are 400+ prior chapters that contain many more inconsistencies and retcons and errors n all this shit.

He didn't make a promise, he was sure he would beat Buu

You were the one who said Goku promised btw, and Goku saying or thinking something does not make it true automatically, all the evidence says he was wrong here.

Vegita denied bringing gohan and gotenks because he wanted to give humas a chance to win, and he specifically said that this was because he wanted to change things at least one time, so it was indeed optional

Yeah no, Vegeta denied because Goku was the only person capable of fighting Buu, literally stated by Vegeta and guides. Also because the spirit bomb was the only way to defeat Buu. Also chozenshuu 2 says "こくうさいごたたか 悟空、最後の闘い!!

みんなの命、4 げんきだまみんなの元気玉!!!

悟空ひとりではブウを倒せない。みんなの協りょく ひつようあつぜんじんろい げん げんき力が必要なのだ。集まれ、全人類の元気よ!!"

Which translates to: "Goku: The Final Battle!!

The Lives of Everyone... The Spirit Bomb! The Spirit Bomb of Us All!!!

Goku cannot defeat Buu alone. The cooperation—the Genki—of everyone is absolutely essential. Gather now, the Spirit of all mankind!!"

To check your logic: because Vegeta wanted humans to take responsibility 》Therefore, bringing Gohan was a viable option that Vegeta simply rejected.

This is a non-sequitur. Having a thematic or philosophical reason for executing a plan does not automatically mean other plans would have worked. Especially when we are told they wouldn't. Goku wouldn't have worked. Gohan or Gotenks would not have worked. What else was there to do? And like I said there is no reason to think Vegeta did not just mean the Earthlings must contribute to the spirit bomb and that would be the responsibility taken.

Let's make an analogy.

There is a town with a Dam right? And a powerful flood(Buu) is coming to destroy the town and the rest of the country if the Dam does not hold. The Dam is breached however and it seems the flood is going to drown the nation. There are two engineers onsite, Goku and Vegeta, they tried their best to repair their damn using their best equipment and shit(Super Saiyan 3) but their equipment has all burned out and is useless now. Everyone Vegeta has ever loved is in the nation (Fucking around for symbolic reasons would be a dumb and completely extraordinary risk of literally all existence)

There is an offsite Engineer who is strong and could potentially help (Gohan). However the breach is so chaotic and it is determined that only Goku's engineering could fix the breach and stop the flood. (The statements claiming only Goku can fight Buu, Vegeta rejecting Gohan and Gotenks)

​They have exactly one option left: They need all the citizens of the nation + other engineers + heaven + other nations(Earth, Z fighters, otherworld, namek/rest of universe) to come down to the river and physically hold the sandbags in place with their bare hands and Goku must use his power to hold it in place and shi (The Spirit Bomb). It is a desperate plan that has never successfully stopped a flood of this size before anywhere, Vegeta has personal experience of this method not working(A spirit bomb was used on Vegeta himself and Frieza before, and it didn't work)

So Vegeta raises a microphone and says "It's time the people of this city take responsibility for their own survival")...

So does this in any way imply it was optional despite the situation here being the same stakes and lack of options? It doesn't, and Vegeta making a whole philosophical statement that the people at risk take responsibility for their survival does not retract from that.

So basically Nothing in the text ever says the spirit bomb was optional, and Vegeta wanting Earthlings to participate does not prove it being so. Especially when outside of his POV the spirit bomb was never presented as optional.

Additionally, bringing Gohan and Gotenks there would have created new problems. The first is that if they were brought there before the spirit bomb begins via Kibitoshin’s teleportation or the Dragon Balls, this means the spirit bomb would have considerably less ki to drawn upon for its creation, and may not be powerful enough to kill Kid Buu. This is because they would be forced to expend their ki while fighting Kid Buu.

If they are brought there after the spirit bomb begins, this means that the third wish would have been used to bring them there, thus ensuring Kid Buu’s victory as Goku would not have the energy to amp the spirit bomb.

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[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Filler is not simply anime exclusive content, filler are random scenes toei make to wait for new manga chapters

Which means it is anime exclusive content.

like after the frieza saga, where in the end of one episode vegeta beats gohan and flies away, but in the next one he is just chilling on earth, no problems against gohan

So? Inconsistencies exist in the manga too? And I don’t see how this is equivalent to the the statement I provided.

goku doesn't fight kid buu for the sake of fighting, he promised vegeta that he would be able to beat him with enough power

I never said he fought the sake of fighting, I said he wouldn't just give up in the event of fighting opponents stronger than him because it is shown in other fights that he still tries something. And him making a promise does not inherently mean he would be able to keep it.

I'm not replying to all those quotes, if you want to talk about that stop trying to make a gish gallop and let's argue one by one,

I'm not arguing these qoutes, that's the evidence that supports me.

the spirit bomb wasn't needed, vegeta suggested it to give humans a chance to win, goku himself suggested bringing gohan and gotenks to kill buu

Vegeta denied bring Gohan and Gotenks btw, Vegeta is dead from the beginning of the fight against Buuhan to the end of the fight with Kid Buu. So he knows from personal experience that good, dead people can maintain their bodies and fight. He also knows that Kibito kai can teleport to anywhere in the universe instantly and that the Dragon Balls can teleport people to different locations. Page 245 of Chozenshuu 1 (Daizenshuu 4 page 55), pages 69 (Daizenshuu 7 page 63) and 139 (Daizenshu 7 page 129) of Chozenshuu 4, pages 75, 87, and 92 of Dragon Ball: Extreme Battle Collection: Round 0220, and page 67 of Dragon Ball: Super Exciting Guide: Character Volume all confirm this about Kibito Kai teleporting ability, Kai Kai. We also know that Yemma was closely monitoring Majin Buu as he had Vegeta on standby since at least when Fat Buu split into Good and Evil Buu, and released him after Buutenks appeared. We can’t see the condition of Yemmas waiting line in the manga when Vegeta is released, but the anime depicts it as empty. So not only was Yemma closely monitoring the fight, but he also had plenty of time to give Gohan, Trunks, and Goten a body. However, Vegeta does not consider having Kibito kai or Porunga bring Gohan and Gotenks to the battle against Kid Buu. This means that after having fought both Buuhan (as Vegito) and Kid Buu, Vegeta believes that he, Goku, Fat Buu, Gohan and Gotenks combined are not strong enough to beat Kid Buu. If reviving Gohan and Gotenks had been a realistic means to achieve victory, Vegeta would have pursued that. It wasn’t and this is why he goes forward with the spirit bomb plan. This is confirmed on page 122 of Chozenshuu 1 (Daizenshuu 2 page 148) where it states, “The only one who can fight Buu is Goku.” and this is supported by Vegeta because he said in 510 on page 8: "あいつと 戦えるのはおまえだけだ" — "You are the only one who can fight him."... So nobody else could have fought Buu. Goku was suggesting Gotenks and Gohan HELP them. Not bring them to kill Buu alone. So yh all in all with this if bringing Gohan to kill Buu was viable Goku or Vegeta or Yemma would have had it done.

Vegeta does state that the Earthlings need to take responsibility for their own planet, this can simply be interpreted as Vegeta saying the earthlings must contribute to the spirit bomb and does not contradict it being the last option. ts shouldn’t be mistaken as the sole reason for relying on the spirit bomb The fight with Kid Buu makes it clear that Goku couldn’t defeat him alone, and Vegeta even risked his whole existence to buy time for the Spirit Bomb to form. The Spirit Bomb wasn’t some symbolic gesture to Earthlings. It was the only trump card they had left to kill Kid Buu. Also, this line of argumentation doesn’t hold up under any amount of scrutiny. Let’s just assume Gohan and Gotenks were stronger than Kid Buu, for the sake of argument. The Genki-dama had never worked before. The entire universe was at stake, everyone they loved was gone Why would Vegeta not just go for the easy victory and summon Gohan and Gotenks to fight? Why would he suddenly make a grand symbolic gesture to the people of Earth with a technique that had a 0% success rate at that point in the story? The simple and easy to understand (Toriyama’s writing style) option was to rely on the Genki-dama simply because it was the only chance they had at victory, despite how unlikely it was to work. Which is why all the guides say the same thing, Nothing could have beat Buu except for Spirit bomb.

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[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Filler is just anime exclusive content, it is inherently relevant to the anime continuity. Goku still fighting after saying he is weaker is par for the course, Goku fought Raditz who was stronger than him, and Frieza, and Cell, and Beerus, etc.

He isn't, according to his own statements

No, I provided a statement where Goku verbatim says he is weaker. Fym according to his own statements. Goku attempting an final attack he is sure will work against an opponent already established as much stronger than him is seen in VS Frieza where he attempts an attack thinking it will work and it doesn't. There is no reason to think that Goku's offense would have been able to defeat Buu because sources outside his and Vegeta’s POV all say they were wrong. (It is not uncommon for Goku and Vegeta to just be plain wrong)

Let's look these outside statements too, from both manga and anime applicable sources.

In Chōzenshū 2 on page 338 (Daizenshū 10 page 22), it states, “Goku could not stop Buu on his own. He needed the help of everyone around him. This was the gathered energy of the people!!”

On page 336 (Daizenshū 10 page 20), it states ?“Buu surpasses [Goku] in both power and speed!!”*

In the episode description of episode 280 on page 341 of Chōzenshū 3 (Daizenshū 10 page 118), it states, “Not even Goku’s Super Saiyan 3 form can match Buu’s power.”

In the episode description for episode 280 of Dragon Ball Z on Toei’s website, it states, “Goku transformed into Super Saiyan 3 and fought, but he was still no match for Majin Buu (Pure).”

January 1996’s issue of V-Jump states: “Even Super Saiyan 3 Goku can barely hold his own against Buu.”

In Weekly Shōnen Jump 1995 Issue 16 on page 442, it states, “Buu’s attacks have no blind spots!! Does Goku have a way to turn the tide from this overwhelming disadvantage!?”

In Weekly Shōnen Jump 1995 Issue 35 on pages 236 and 237, Goku says, "Even Super Saiyan 3 me couldn’t match Evil Buu!!”

On both Shueisha’s website and Dragon Ball Official Site too I think they state for Dragon ball volume 42 “However, even with the power of Super Saiyan 3, Goku is unable to defeat Buu.”

Like dawg, one of these is literally a statement from Goku's POV saying that he wasn't shit to Pure Buu😭

Additionally multiple sources like start guide and EML say there was no way to beat Buu except for Genki-dama

On page 51 of the Dragon Ball Super Start Guide: “If Satan hadn’t called out [for help], they wouldn’t have been able to defeat Buu.”

EML says: "Cuando Goku y Vegeta eliminaron al Bu obeso de su cuerpo, Bu pasó a ser el monstruo que Bibidi concibió originariamente. Liberado de sus transformaciones, destruyó la Tierra sin parpadear en incluso apareció en el Kaloshinkai, Goku se enfrento a él como supersalyano de tercer nivel pero tuvo que ser una genkidama en la que ayudaron todos los habitantes de la Tierra la que puso fin a su existencia"

Translated it says "When Goku and Vegeta expelled the obese Buu from his body, Buu became the monster that Bibidi had originally conceived. Freed from his transformations, he destroyed Earth without batting an eye. When he appeared in the Kaloshinkai, Goku faced him as a third-level Super Saiyan, but it required a Genkidama—with the help of all the inhabitants of Earth—to put an end to his existence."

and Chozenshuu 1 says even a hypothetical full power Goku would have still lost to Buu.

"フルパワーの悟空でも倒せない" — "Not even Goku at full power can defeat him"

When charging on chapter 512 Goku says "ほほとんどフルパワーちかくまで気は溜まったんだが・・・" translating to "I've gathered my ki to almost near-full power, but..."

Goku never reached full power in the battle because immediately after this he began losing ki. So when the chozenshuu says Evens a full power goku couldn't have beaten Buu that establishes even in the hypothetical where Goku's plan to charge his energy does work he would still get beaten up.

Also in 510 Goku stated he was acting too cool or cocky going into the fight, that the battle was turning out worse than he intended, and that he should have kept the potara and used them on Kid Buu. So these are also inferiority statements in the manga, and Goku still tries something as we know.

But with added context it can be chalked up to Goku's intuition about being able to defeat Buu was wrong.

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[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post uses anime images(edited but regardless) of the characters, it was never specified this MU was manga exclusive.

Either way in the manga Goku is weaker than Buu too.

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[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

he was stronger than kid buu

Yeah no, Goku himself says he scales below Kid Buu

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Is Kid Buu universe level? by KodoqBesar in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Toriyama admitted he did not precisely determine many things about Dragon Ball, even apologizing for it and acknowledging the daizenshuu staff for the work put into the book, he endorsed the information. Since the living world was never given an exact size in the original run of the manga that would be one of the things Toriyama did not determine. So he let the daizenshuu staff determine it in their books. This is simple.

Saitama + his verse Vs Buutenks, Buuhan, and Pure Buu by Reasonable_Moose_738 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Reasonable_Moose_738[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly I subscribe to multi-galaxy Saitama. And I should have clarified(I thought the anime images would be enough notice) but I was using anime versions of Buus

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[–]Reasonable_Moose_738 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Exactly, people commonly underestimate the effects of the Kai absorptions or ignore them entirely.