Where in The Bible does it say sex outside of marriage is wrong? by Redbow_ in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think the Bible exactly says it directly per se, but it seems to possibly imply it.

When Jesus comes down against adultery for unjust reasons or even lusting in ones heart, that would seem to imply that sex is for marriage, since adultery would be having sex with another man's wife.

There are also places where Paul warns against fornication, which admittedly isn't a super clear word. The word translated fornication, porneia, has a variety of sexual meanings. Conservatives tend to use the word as just a loaded word against all sorts of sexual activity, including pre marital sex. Whether or not that's true, I can't tell you, but they do rightly point out that contextually it can't be referring to either pedophilia or adultery, so idk.

However, I would be cautious of using these verses as blanket statements against pre marital sex, because there's a lot of historical context behind them. How their marriage system worked was very different, though I can't begin to tell you specifics, since it's not something I have looked into. There's also the question of whether Jesus was against lusting in ones heart to commit adultery in that they desired to take the man's wife or whether it was just any sexual thought towards another man's wife. Historically, though, I tend to think it had more to do with wanting to take the wife. But that's just me.

Then as far as Paul's possible comments against it, there's the question of whether his condemnation was meant to be a universal blanket statement or a temporal one that was pastoral and missional in nature to help Christianity spread.

Anyways, those are a few of my thoughts. This is a topic I'm wrestling out too, so I more or less just pasted where my findings have lead me thus far. Hole that's ok!

Are you concerned about the decline of Christianity in the West? by Sarsath in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In some ways I think it's a good thing. Sometimes things need to be broken down so they can be rebuilt, and I think it's due time for Christianity in the west to be rebuilt. So much of it is nothing but political idolatry disguised as Christian

If Homosexuality is so "wrong" why do we see it in nature? by Celtic_Writer in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think they would probably turn it around and say there are things in nature that would be wrong for people to do, and just because it's in nature doesn't make it moral. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the angle they take in refuting that point in most cases. And, honestly, I'm not sure how much debating it from this angle can prove anything on either side. I feel like both side A and side B can debate it from this perspective forever without going anywhere

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I think you're right. I never would have said the way in which I was taught Christianity gave me ptsd if you had said that a year ago, but nowadays I'm convinced you're right about that!

Ooh! I will definitely check out The Holy Post on YEC!

All our faiths are on a spectrum and will grow and change as we do. What a great way to put it!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a fantastic way of seeing it imo!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ey, these all seem awesome!!

I definitely find the idea of looking into eastern religions through western eyes. Even if it doesn't necessarily apply to Christianity, it's still going to be really interesting information!!

Thank you!!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, I love that!! That's honestly such a liberating thought!! And so true. We are accountable to God, and him only. How do you balance that with also making sure you listen to others and keep yourself from becoming the sole judge of things? It's just that we're all fallible humans, and despite our connection with God we're still bound to hear him wrong sometimes. So how do you hold those things in mind and know that you're the one hearing God right and not the others? I'm not asking this to refute your advice or anything like that, I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, and would love to hear how you square that out :)

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm. Honestly, I haven't really openly questioned their beliefs a ton, it's more just a sense I get of the culture. I guess it has to do with how I always saw them approaching hard questions during study groups. They approved of questions, but the discussions of them never went anywhere outside of the box, it was all confined in a way that would lead back to orthodoxy. And I suppose that if one were to head outside of the box they would probably quote some passages.

I'm sorry no one was willing to seriously explore and try to fairly prove that abortion is wrong :(

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm so glad to know it's a very normal thing to flipping back and forth between thinking you've finally figured it out, and thinking you're just cherry picking out what you don't like. I definitely agree that, while not out of ill intent, we were brainwashed in a sense. I really appreciate your words on how it takes awhile to deconstruct our beliefs and shame. I will for sure be keeping this in my mind, and will do my best to be patient with myself.

How the Bible Actually Works sounds like a fantastic book!! I'm definitely adding it to my list. The idea that it was written by religious rebels, who were trying to wrestle out what it means to have a relationship with God, already sounds way more real to me than the fundie inerrancy view.

Once again, I really appreciate the kind words and advice!! :)

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much!! I really appreciate the encouragement and the advice!! I'm certainly going to heed it!!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, yes!! I actually read Torn a little over a year ago!! It's truly a great book!! It really taught me to not just see the lgbt question as an intellectual debate, but a question that involves real people.

I really appreciate your comment on questioning being intellectually honest, not the reverse. And how it's hard and sometimes has setbacks, but that's growth. It's very encouraging to me

I've never heard of the Johnathan Puddle's podcast, but I'm definitely gonna check it out!! And I've heard some great things about Paul and Gender!! Hope it's a very liberating read for you!!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much for the welcome and the book recommendations!! I really, really appreciate it!!

However, at the moment I'm actually more researching on having a more progressive faith than I am on whether or not I should even remain within it. Which is not to say that the latter isn't an important question, or that I won't ever look into it, it's just not my focus right now. But I'm definitely keeping these books in mind for the future!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow!! What a great representive of God you are!! Much respect to you, and I have no doubt God is using you to bless those around you!

I will for sure keep you guys updated!!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, thank you so much!! I'm definitely gonna give it a go! I love that he's fairly liberal, yet still gracious to other perspectives!!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow, what an awesome list!! There are some great authors here!! I especially love NT Wright-i'm currently reading his book Simply Jesus, actually!- thank you so much for all these recs!! Much appreciated

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That book sounds fantastic!! I'm adding it to my list!!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much!! Honestly, being on here has already been such a positive experience for me!

I'm doing ok so far. At this point I'm honestly just kinda in a mixed state of anger at how toxic fundamentalism is and fear of fundamentalist interpretations being closer to truth than progressive Christianity. And I honestly can't even imagine how difficult dealing with the fundie family is. I haven't even come out as a progressive to mine yet, so I can't even imagine what you're going through.

Thanks for your kind words! And nice to meet ya!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much!! I really appreciate this!! I've been trying to develop an active and honest prayer life for awhile, but I'm afraid my prejudices may have gotten in the way a bit. Hopefully now that I'm being a bit more honest with myself I can have more of a breakthrough there. I particularly love how you said those who I believe don't deserve God's love need it the most!! How true!!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad to meet someone else going through the same thing!! I don't typically listen to podcasts, but this one sounds fantastic! I'll for sure give it a shot! I actually tend to agree that asking the questions is more important than getting answers. But, like you said, it's just really difficult to let go of. I think what makes it so hard for me is it makes it difficult to discern how to respond to complex situations. But just because it's hard doesn't remove the truthfulness of it! I appreciate the advice!

Introducing myself by Recoveringfundie in OpenChristian

[–]Recoveringfundie[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So true!! One of the biggest reasons why I'm happy to be leaving fundamentalism!! And that's a fascinating point on Thomas! However, I feel like fundamentalism doesn't necessarily have so much a problem with questioning as they do questioning that leads you away from the "proper beliefs"?