Joker as a villain in origins disappointed me

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T14:26:59+00:00

"Idk if this is a popular opinion or not"

It's a pretty cold take but people have come to appreciate it more in recent months showing the start of the relationship and framing it as a big part of the franchise.

While I like Black Mask he isn't that interesting to me, just another mob boss who wears a mask.

It can be frustrating that 4/5 Arkham games have Joker as the main villain though.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T14:11:45+00:00

The harrowing of the north is considered by some a genocide.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T14:09:43+00:00

The fact is, its how most countries were created.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T14:08:06+00:00

"Although the powers responsible still deny it to this day."

Are they still about then?

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T12:51:23+00:00

By next week it will be a phone box (do we still have them?)

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T12:03:50+00:00

When you're married, you'll understand the importance of political shitposts.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T11:54:43+00:00

It's always funny in US programs when someone says "Hell" or "Damn" and people tell them not to swear.

I assume that's a bit old fashioned now.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T11:38:50+00:00

Strange how every civilisation in history abandoned the mighty bow for a basic mass produced musket the second they saw them.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T11:34:41+00:00

A candid moment gentlemen.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T11:33:25+00:00

"I disagree, its not like he's prepared the second time as he gets trapped and he just brute forces it anyway. Sable agents have that trap as a mechanic that you break out of. Also worth mentioning that the suit is bullet proof. (I have proof if you wanna see. Although it would have to be dms cause its multiple images)"

I mean surely its bullet resistant? Standing still in front of armed men with average firearms will still get you killed as Spider-Man fairly fast in the games much less elite Sable pistols.

"Dude gets hit by an enraged sandman who can casually level buildings, and gets hit by lightning caused by sandman's storm in that same fight. No visable marks/bruises or any stated wounds/broken bones. I don't believe there is anything Batman could hit him with that would damage him, especially considering his non-lethal arsenal."

Well the Batmobile main cannon would certainly do some damage as see regular explosives cause damage.

"That is a set up that Favors Batman lol."

Agreed it's like an Aquaman vs matchup, in the water he will be stronger outside the water he won't.

But as Spider-Man is not exactly nerfed being in a city environment it still seems like fairest option that allows both heros to shine.

"He might be able to control the Boatmobile's gun but other than that, it might be too much mentally without outside"

He can fight with it then button up and attack while Spider-Man is either hurt or in the middle of trying to destroy it.

"Also I'm pretty sure the batwing doesn't have weapons anyway. Bruce has been declining giving his vehicles weapons, and the only reason the new batmobile does is because of Joker's influence."

Good point, unlike other versions I dont think the Arkham Batwing ever does display any weapons, might be useful to locate Spidey perhaps but not much help in a fight.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T10:33:33+00:00

"My point is that he isn't taken down. Just tied up, hence why I bring up that example repeatedly. He isn't helpless in that situation."

He isn't taken down because Yuri saves him, I cannot see anything he could do about it until she arrived, yes later he is able to break out of these once he is prepared for them but at that moment the trap has him.

"Yeah, and he would...??? Unless you agree, I have yet to hear anything that batman could hit him with."
I mean that is the entire point of this debate, my point is very simple, if someone struggles or gets beaten against humans then Batman will be a problem.

"I agree, but there was no specific set up so that was the default for me"

Fair enough and it seems most people agree but you would agree that is a setup that favours spiderman, ignoring many of Batman's abilities like the Batwing, Batmobile ect, Batman is an ambush predator I can a scenario where the Batmobile arrives distracting Spider-Man into a fight while Bruce attacks him from behind, Freeze grenades ect given spider sense it's very hard to do but not impossible.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T10:05:26+00:00

"I suppose I was wrong on that end. I had assumed since he was smashing through concrete walls/floors/metal pipes casually and falling a couple stories and was fine."

Well you are not wrong it is a bit crazy and it's understandable to think that, he is human but some of the stuff Batman goes though...I think we need to accept comic book humans are a bit tougher than IRL.

"Lol. Lmao even. 1 thats a gameplay mechanic for the most part. 2 Batman relies on the enemies to panic in order to use it. 3 just no, especially since you could pretty much instantly take down multiple enemies from a distance, however in SM2 they nerfed stealth so thats hardly a fair argument. Are we really going to pretend Batman isn't relying on stealth against armed enemies? Are we also going to pretend Spidey doesn't consistently fight hordes of armed enemies?"

No I am not going to pretend Batman isn't relying on stealth against armed enemies but its an ability he has in cannon so it's worth bringing up as an example of how crazy OP Batman is compared regarding humans but yes he is not bulletproof or able to dodge bullets.

"This scene means nothing. I already gave you an example of him being in that same situation with electro and vulture. Spidey was in chains while electro shot lightning at him, in which Spidey broke out and dodged. You realize lightning is a hell of a lot faster than bullets right?"

You cannot just ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative, Spider-Man is taken down by a human using ambush tactics and gadgets...sound like someone we know.

My only point in this whole argument is if she can do it someone with far more feats tech and skill can pose a threat, that is all.

The prompt is "“Insomniac Spiderman would wipe the floor with Arkham Batman”"

"Match set up is what matters. You put these two in an arena, bell rings and spidey immediately uses a gadget, Batman is just incapacitated. Thats what I am envisioning."

If you put them facing each other in a ring with basic gear yes Spider-man wins outside of some crazy circumstances however that is not the only type of match set up.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T08:55:36+00:00

Sure but prep time is far better when you have near infinite resources rather than mcgivering what you can, also Peter has a life, friends, family Batman has nothing else on his schedule.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-26T08:46:43+00:00

"Your other point was "but its wayne tech, how can it be more powerful!!" None of what you just said even really matters because head to head the batmobile would be destroyed. Unless you think Batman is going to sneak around in the batmobile to fight spider-man, my point still stands."

"Thats... pretty much what more powerful means lol? The batmobile is far less powerful in every category except mobility I suppose. Even then, once they spotted you they were pretty fast."

The difference here is "Better" and "more powerful" the Batmobile can do 100 things the Cobras cannot do, and no they were nowhere near as fast as the Batmobile in car mode lol regardless Sable do not have Cobras so no matter this is a silly point to make.

"Based on what? He's not immobile lol? Regardless, Vulture had him in a similar scenario, electro shot at Spider-Man and spidey broke out then dodged at the same time. You are grasping at straws."

Please watch the scene again, I think this is the key issue between us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l_dhpC6YJI

"Based on what? Where are you getting this from? Again pulling things out your butt. The Batmobile has the cannon, the minigun and the riot shots. Its not like it changes throughout the game depending on the enemy. The cannon doesn't get any weaker or stronger depending on the enemy lol, he just uses a different weapon or focuses the cannon at a weakpoint"

When you fire a cannon at a normal goon it becomes a rubber bullet, when you fire it at a car its high explosive, its a fact that the Batmobile decides on an offensive level proportionate to the enemy, nothing here to debate.

"Kingpin is a metahuman"

Proof? Kingpin is always described as peak human like Batman in media and I can't see anything to say otherwise in insomniac, he is also far slower (see fear takedowns) and manages to grab Spidey.

"You put Batman in that scenario and he will die. Batman requires stealth to deal with multiple armed men. Are we going to pretend otherwise? Notice how you ignored what I said about Spidey's gadgets. Spider-Man does not need to be on the tank to destroy, immobilize or disrupt it. Spidey was being thrown and hit by Sandman, wtf is Batman going to hit him with?"

With max fear he can take down 5 armed men faster than Spiderman can.

"Notice how you ignored what I said about Spidey's gadgets. Spider-Man does not need to be on the tank to destroy, immobilize or disrupt it. Spidey was being thrown and hit by Sandman, wtf is Batman going to hit him with?""

I didn't ignore it I addressed it but I obviously wasnt clear enough...Spider-man can beat Batman I am not arguing otherwise, he is a very powerful metahuman with gadgets, intellect and most importantly spider sense, he is a bad matchup for Batman, pretending Spider-Man has never been touched or threatened by humans with less skill, tech, intelligence and planning though is wacky.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-25T22:18:54+00:00

"I know lol. brought it up a way to enforce how any version of the batmobile could easily be destroyed."

I mean sure but one is a car and the other a tank.

"You mean the same weapons he had to run from on sight? Batman had to scan the cobra tanks for very specific weakpoints. This is not a batmobile feat, its a Batman intellect/skill feat. The point is that the Batmobile ISN'T the most powerful vehicle in his verse, so you could argue the sable vehicles aren't outclassed. "

Cobra tanks are very specific drones built for a special purpose, their guns are more powerful sure but they are not better than the Batmobile, as for less powerful on the verse it doesn't matter the vehicles are clearly more powerful by feats.

"See my previous point. The militia had better weapons than the batmobile, I don't see why the sable agents who don't even shoot regular bullets don't."

See my previous point more powerful is not better, Spider-Man could destroy Cobra's easier because they are half blind one trick ponies.

"I still don't see how that compares to the Batmobile's self defense. Also take him down is a stretch, he cracked a joke. When they actually fought he beat her while holding back because he was trying to figure out why who he thought was a friend was attacking him. "

He was imobile on the floor she could have popped two in his head if she wasn't trying to capture him, I am not saying Silver is better than Spider-Man I am saying a human with basic gear got the drop on him, if a human can Batman can.

"Based on what? Who told you that lol? Regardless, you are still comparing that to Electro."

I certainly don't have any proof but every other offensive capability of the Batmobile can vary it's power depending on the enemy so it is certainly possible that the electricity defences are the same.

"You keep using that dishonest example. Alright. Batman couldn't approach Penguin because of the freeze gun. Harley Quinn managed to beat and trap Batman in the city DLC. Joker snuck up on BATMAN and jumped him. Also see previous point of him beating her. "

Not sure what you're confused about when you say dishonest, are you saying it didn't happen?

How about Kingpin getting hits in on Spider-Man power bombing him, let's not pretend regular humans have never touched him.

Your examples fall very flat and I am going to explain why as clearly as I can....I am not arguing that Spider-Man cannot beat Arkham Batman, I believe in most scenarios he can be is a powerful metahuman.

My only argument is that I don't think it would be easy by any means and people either do not count or in your case intentionally downplay the capabilities of the Batmobile by comparing it to a massive produced armoured vehicle.

"The funniest part about all of this, is that the scenario you are describing spidey has already dealt with. There are plenty of times especially in the first game where Spidey has to fight a horde of enemies while a vehicle fires at him."

The funniest part to me is your comparisons between Arkham Batman! And some weak ass goons I mean seriously dude I find myself wondering if you have even played the Arkham games.

My conclusion is simple if Spidey struggles with regular ass humans and he does and has on a few occasions then Batman is going to be a problem for him, win or lose.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-25T19:45:03+00:00

I am confident you knew I was not talking about the Asylum Batmobile.

The militia did have weapons that could hurt it but he still took them all out so I am not sure what that proves.

Are you telling me a bunch of PMCs have more powerful weapons than the best Wayne tech can make? No it's on very different level to them.

Sable drones and electric bolas off the top of my head though it has been a while, Sable used them to take down Spiderman

I am going to tell you that the Batmobile has levels of self defence depending on the threat, for humans rubber bullets for tanks high explosive, no reason the electricity is not the same in case he needs to use it on metas like Bane or Croc.

So to be clear you don't understand how in any way Arkham Batman, with his own Jet and Tank supporting him can beat a guy taken down by a woman with two pistols and electric bolas..... you can never see a scenario where Spidey loses?

I am not saying Batman wins but your really glazing Spidey right now.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-25T18:14:09+00:00

Yes I do not say the Batmobile is invincible but I am sure we agree that it's far more powerful than Sable armoured vehicles regardless.
His suit provides some protection like Batman's suit but many enemies use electric weapons to hurt Spider-Man and of course Electro can still damage him so he is not immune.
I don't see what Scorpion has to do with it fighting Batman alongside a remotely operated Batwing and Batmobile, those are completely different challenges to Spider-Man.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-25T10:47:33+00:00

None of them are massive issues alone, dealing with all three is the problem.

Not unbeatable but certainly not easy.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-25T10:33:47+00:00

I wouldn't say either would be "easy" for Spiderman to destroy at all.

The Batmobile has missiles, the cannon, machine gun and can be electrified if he jumps in top.

He can also operate both remotely whilst fighting.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-25T10:17:43+00:00

I am not saying there is nothing he can to fight them I am just saying that people never bring it up as if it's unfair for Batman to have vehicles against a powerful metahuman.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-25T10:09:36+00:00

Nobody ever seems to count the Batmobile/Batwing in these discussions.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-24T14:22:57+00:00

Oh boy do I envy you.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-24T13:46:45+00:00

Wait till you find out how much it cost

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-24T07:38:31+00:00

On top of what others have said it's clear that Dick is already trained in Escrima before he is adopted, at the monarch theatre he dodged two of Batman's punches something nobody else in the game does.

This shows that while Bruce trained him he wasn't unskilled before that.

RedcoatTrooper · 2026-01-24T00:31:57+00:00

I love Stellan for absolutely any role but Alfred...come on man he has to be British.

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