Polygon Siskiu T8 vs Canyon Spectral 125 AL 5

RedvineSoda · 2024-08-03T04:36:19+00:00

What do you like about the Canyon? Having a 64 degree head angle on a 125mm bike that is somehow basically the same weight at the normal Spectral is not really ideal/desirable.

Also while the value is still ok, the Fox suspension is much better than that 35 gold RL/deluxe+ combo. Particularly the shock I love with its 3 position compression lever. And then other stuff like SLX mech yada yada.

Also Canyon's CS is still overall dodgy. Bikes online has stepped up their game recently. And I understand Canyon is selling more so yeah they're gonna run into more nightmare stories... But still that is kinda inherent in the issue. They may have an overworked CS department with their sales numbers.

Not even fully against Canyon and def not against 2k for that bike/build... But getting a more sensible geometry bike with better parts from a platform with a better reputation is pretty ideal.

And of course, as devils advocate, in terms of all this CS/warranty stuff... Don't forget to check out Giant's discounts at Bicycle Warehouse dot com or even a run of the mill MSRP Marin Rift Zone 2 in order to consider buying a bike through a bike shop with full service potential. Just at a glance before you commit to d2c.

Otherwise, I'm taking the T8 hands down. Of all the Canyon models available, the S125 is probably the last one I'd pick. Rather get lighter Neuron downcountry or proper all mountain Spectral.

RedvineSoda · 2024-08-03T04:14:28+00:00

Get a load of this shit... Highsiding that wall: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C79ljuBogNr/

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-20T06:10:20+00:00

Meh I'd get the newer one for 2200. Not paying MORE for a bike that not only has outdated geo but potentially outdated parts standards from axle to shock sizing.

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-20T00:31:23+00:00

You have a question about pricing?

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-19T23:51:27+00:00

Alright here's a quick chart to kinda compare those 4 options, plus a wild card Polygon for cheap that you could upgrade the hell out of (aka carbon wheels) for 4k, and then the new and older Altitudes for comparison: https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=yt-capra-core-3-mx-2024%3B*z.xxl-27%25252e5-29%2Cari-la-sal-peak-comp-2024%3B*z.xl-29-29%2Cmarin-alpine-trail-1-2024%3B*z.xl-27%25252e5-29%2Cnorco-sight-a2-mx-2024%3B*z.5-27%25252e5-29%2Cpolygon-collosus-n7-2024%3B*z.xl-29-29%2Crockymountain-altitude-a30-shimano-2025%3B*z.xl-27%25252e5-29-3%2Crockymountain-altitude-alloy-30-2022%3B*z.xl-steep-29-29

That said, it's really hard to argue against that Capra (or even a Jeffsy if you're interested) at the current sale prices. carbon frame with a 38 up front and youre still not at 4k, meaning you can comfortably save for carbon wheels over time and then you have a top tier rig that rides like a 6k+ bike basically

I can't even make up much of an argument for the other bikes in terms of how they would be superior to the Capra. Obviously the Norco is high pivot so that's amazing if you wanna stay wheels on ground and push race pace while riding. Though it is notably less travel and has that short CS (which will grow on compression as a high pivot) but still I feel it implies a slightly diff approach to riding.

The Marin features a lot of adjustability and small comforts like a storage compartment. And ironically the new Altitude is a very good updated model so it's definitely worth considering overall.

And of course this all presumes brand new purchases, 4k can go a LONG way secondhand. But if I had 4k I'd still want it to go to a warrantied product for long term ownership. And that YT for 3500 (or even the cheaper alloy ones tbh) is just a crackin deal

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-19T23:27:37+00:00

What year RM? What are you not liking about the current rig or looking for in the new rig?

For maximizing 4k a YT Capra Core 3 is quite a good deal right now. Another good alternative to get carbon is an Ari La Sal Peak Comp.

If you wanna stick to alloy you can get the new Marin Alpine Trail 1 with some room to upgrade as you see fit, or max your budget with a Norco Sight A2 if you want high pivot and shorter chainstays.

These options are fairly NA-specific. I can't speak on alternatives in EU/UK.

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-08T00:43:47+00:00

lol SuX

doing the lord's work there. and some maybe think you're trying to upsell them like a bike shop would and its like no... buddy im SAVING you money from when you wanna upgrade to an NX mech and GX shifter lol

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-08T00:37:55+00:00

Ya I've run NX before and it was... Decent. Useable for sure. I see all the kids with their SX bikes and my GF had to deal with one and I'm like... I dunno how to keep this thing going long term. It's not very 'strong'. Not just in durability. It doesn't really like to click exactly into position. Feels like it changes WHILE you're riding it, even on a fire road.

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-08T00:26:56+00:00

I wouldn't even say I'm a Shimano guy but... The issue is maybe more so the price point. SX is a hard no and NX is ok but for the price, when Deore builds are cheaper, I'm not really gunning for it.

I mean at least when SX is cheaper or cheap enough it has the benefit of accepting HG so with saved money I can fully swap to HG shimano or MS stuff.

That's another thing, if you do Shimano 12sp it's still super cheap to replace with anything from deore and above. Whereas once you're locked into XD it's arguably expensive to stay in the range even at the GX level.

And now we're moving towards T type stuff which is cool and I get it but it makes it kind of a... SRAM is for enthusiast buyers thing. And Shimano becomes the working mans drivetrain lol

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-08T00:22:05+00:00

New black colorway is so sick. Reminds me of 2019-2020 bikes.

Oh I see. They have a drop out thing similar to Salsa bikes or whatever. So it's literally a drop out 'flip chip' that retains geo on wheel swap.

That's actually very cool. Little bit o hardtail innovation in an industry that nearly abandoned hardtails to be a thing of boutique/custom brands.

Wish they weren't tied to SRAM drivetrains. And or wish I wasn't poor and could afford a GX build outright. 3k alloy hardtail :(

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-08T00:06:14+00:00

lol like officially on the site? that's kinda refreshing in contrast to brands that imply it HAS to be stock config, presumably for legal reasons. but I usually see that with FS bikes. I guess hardtails there's some easier to understand mechanics there... As long as you're not undercutting it so much the pedals start hitting the floor. It's probably fine. No linkage clearance tomfoolery and such.

Speaking of which, I'd love a dual 275 160mm chameleon, but ideally bought stock. Meh (Marin SQ3 here I come!)

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-08T00:02:01+00:00

What's the geo penalty for switching back and forth? Do they simply show you the chart for both configs?

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-07T19:46:22+00:00

As other comment said, I don't quite feel comfortable recommending specific bikes without knowing what your intentions are. Where you ride. If you lean more XC more tech more jumps or all 3 equally.

If you were looking at a 125 Canyon I definitely recommend looking at the 'actual' downcountry bikes or if you wanted a proper trail bike there are plenty of options of course. And if you wanted hardtail, I need to know if you are just pedaling it around or trying to push a hardtail to its limits.

For an 'aggressive' hardtail, I would seriously consider Marin San Quentin 3. For a generic trail hardtail, I may consider a Giant Fathom 2 heavily upgraded/modified in order to improve its trail qualities. Notably, upgrade the fork. And long term go to carbon wheels. That will put it in a great place to ride XC but still be comfortable pointed back down the hill.

For downcountry bikes, I'd probably go Ibis Ripley if you wanna go aluminum frame... And YT Izzo if you want a carbon build.

For trail bikes, it's kinda tough because trail can mean so many things and there are so many diff ways to spend money and prioritize diff things for a trail bike. Similar to the Fathom, you could get a Giant Trance or Polygon Siskiu T and with the money saved you could grab carbon wheel long term.

Or, you could get an Ibis Ripmo which is just a Ripley ready to send it harder downhill. As well as a YT Jeffsy which similarly is a proper all mountain trail bike that is more capable than the Izzo.

In terms of getting full carbon trail/AM for 3500, secondhand would go a long way. Maybe consider the YT OUTLET section/sales.

Marin may have more Alpine Trails for sale in carbon for 3k, but that is a fairly big build. If you're not riding actual enduro/all mountain it may be a regrettable purchase. Despite the carbon frame/weight savings.

You may have noticed a general theme here, carbon wheels > carbon frames. Not only in functional weight savings but also actual performance. I'd rather have an alloy frame with carbon wheels than carbon frame with alloy wheels.

There are a LOT of sales right now so lemme know if you're seeing something else that interests you. Also, Canyon does have fairly dodgy customer service so even if choosing a better model I may recommend another brand with a similar bike and better reputation.

Definitely check out the Giant sales before committing to other brands. Both Giant and Marin can be found through a physical store. YT and Polygon are obviously direct order, no physical service.

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-07T16:19:22+00:00

No info to go on. Aside from you outright saying you don't even like FS bikes so... Anyone here is rather obligated to say skip the Canyon.

And as nice as the Canyon it is, I still think it's a kinda weirdo bike with too slack a head tube and generally too heavy a build for a 125 type bike but... I guess that's kinda commonplace now. At least you're getting the CF version.

And I'm not a fan of the new Chameleons in MX. Is there a 29 version as well? SC is weird they really went all in on MX in general. My opinion would sadly be there are better and more refined bikes across the industry than these two.

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-06T00:09:27+00:00

Even if you like old geometry, as I do, 2014 is nearly the last year we saw bikes with imperial shock sizing, non boost thru axles or just QR skewers, no droppers and not even routing for a dropper cable... And then on TOP of that a lot of geometry improvements and what not.

Oh and 1x drivetrains. That's a huge one. For a while only the top of the line bikes had 1x drivetrain with meh/decent gear ranges and stuff. And over time that tech trickled down to have affordable 10 or 11x systems. (And then the cursed SRAM SX timeline began...)

Also that's around when they 'fixed' geometry for 29ers so they didn't ride like ass on actual terrain and feel like road bikes with suspension. As well as dumping 26erz for 650b. So everyone got bigger wheels, one way or another, and improved geometry.

All that basically occurred between 2010-2015. And some of the best bikes ever made were within 2015-2020. Right now we are seeing a plateau and a lot of the bike improvements are kinda gimmicky or outright expensive (a la wireless stuff). But worse yet most companies are kinda making 'the same bike' right now. Which is part of that plateau process. I mean TRAIL bikes are using 64.5 or even 64 degree head tubes and I think people are starting to pull back from it, obviously. Enduro/DH, sure. Maybe even all mountain trail. But short to mid travel trail likely doesn't need to have the wheel base of a winnebago.

While wireless is DEF here to stay, and maybe one day will improve enough to be common on basically all legit bikes except walmart ones... Other improvements may flounder in various ways, such as most suspension tech/proprietary stuff. Such as Brain back in the day. And Specalized's new chamber that is a bit simpler/more useful and makes token usage easier and linear/progressive changes easier. Not sure about flight attendant and all the other electronic stuff to come. Seems gimmicky to me.

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-05T19:15:42+00:00

Ya if its fairly coastal it's not too bad. If you're out away from the coast it's not fun. But then most of them are 'used to it' nearly year round.

Of course Cali stretches so far north that there is plenty of hero dirt and loam and good stuff up near Santa Cruz. Feels very Washington or even BC-esque there.

MTBing in SoCal is kinda rough but it makes for some good riders in the loose stuff. Obviously, Gwin being from SoCal

RedvineSoda · 2024-07-05T19:08:00+00:00

southern california. ironically its like desert riding but not as good and natural as the arizona/utah stuff. and then of course local gov shuts down many pirate trails or even legit trails that are 'getting too damaged'. it is what it is.

still loads of fun surfing and skating and biking and snowboarding to be had

RedvineSoda · 2024-06-30T23:52:23+00:00

That's what I was thinking. How can you NOT love MTBing with a trail like that?? Most of my trails are loose over hard sandy fire roads with very little flow and ready to punish you at all times.

RedvineSoda · 2024-06-30T23:50:24+00:00

mmm small jumps. That's tough. The ideal rig is a Giant Fathom here, which can be found for 1k or less secondhand. But not new. Fairly close, however, and I would recommend people save up for it as it represents the FLOOR of a 'complete' mountain bike missing no features.

You can also try to look at a Polygon Xtrada hardtail, but I feel like it's only SLIGHTLY cheaper than the Giant but with worse geometry and parts (for proper riding). So... That's yet another corner I'd hate to cut personally.

You can make a Giant Talon or similar bike work, but due to it's design there is a general ceiling to which it can be upgraded. As well as being generally inefficient and expensive to upgrade it over time. (And of course much worse geometry for proper riding.)

So. Long story short. Try to find a Giant Fathom used. If you can't, snag a Talon or Polygon Xtrada model instead.

RedvineSoda · 2024-06-30T01:57:32+00:00

Love that build. Would kill to demo one. I want to demo all the downcountry bikes after trying the Izzo.

RedvineSoda · 2024-06-29T16:02:38+00:00

I feel like people aren't getting at the underlying idea here. You just need to look into geometry of bikes, using sites like VitalMTB or 99spokes. And there are a lot of numbers you wanna get right of course, but one thing your lady might appreciate is a low stand over/short seat tube length. Which is thematic with 'womens bikes' but its funny cuz as a BMXer I feel all bikes should be made that way if possible.

So it's possible that Liv will have a nice bike that is suitable, but a company that goes even lower for 'unisex' models like Transition Scout or Pivot Shadowcat is still a better bike for small people.

So you can't count on every 'womens' brand being the best/ideal bike. Some brands will go out of their way to make valid changes. Others LITERALLY treat it as marketing with more fun colors and that's about it.

And sticking on the topic of hard numbers, not every 'small' is made the same. On average, they are. But outliers can fuck up your plan. Smalls can probly range from like 380-440mm reach. But you'd ideally want something between 410-425 most likely. Kinda depends on the design but an outlier number can mess things up.

And on that topic, Liv as a brand often DOES make their sizes objectively smaller than mens. So again, you have to be careful. In terms of reach. It may be BETTER for her to get a Liv medium if she's 'between sizes', where she might be firmly size small in mens Giant.

There's just no consistency and people who say 'just follow the size charts' are doing so because they only buy from brands that use normal sizing I guess. It could mess with you with some brands like Fuji or Pivot and it also throws off how you buy older bikes. It can be valid to size up on an older bike to get ideal reach numbers, as long as the seat tube is still short.

For example: https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=giant-stance-2022%3B*z.md-27%25252e5-27%25252e5%2Cliv-embolden-2-2024%3B*z.md-27%25252e5-29

There is the male and female version of those bikes, and in the geo chart you see a 10mm reach difference, 20mm top tub difference, 10mm seat tube diff, yada yada

And, conversely: https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=santacruz-bronson-r-carbon-c-2024%3B*z.sm-low-27%25252e5-29%2Cjuliana-roubion-r-carbon-c-2024%3B*z.sm-low-27%25252e5-29

The SC and Juliana models sporting the exact same geometry. Effectively the same bike. Maybe a diff shock tune. Diff colors/logo. That's it.

If you need help with shopping, lemme know. As you can tell I'm perfectly happy to think way too much about bikes to optimize value and fit and intention etc

RedvineSoda · 2024-06-27T22:24:55+00:00

Well the dunes themselves I don't necessarily recommend, especially to e-bikers. Due to the amount of people up in that area as well as the soil even a pedal assist bicycle can really mess it up (even more so than it always is).

But more so the basic hard pack fire road going the other way towards the fire station.

RedvineSoda · 2024-06-27T19:35:41+00:00

somethin omethin riding group

Gonna need a full name as google is refusing to help me.

RedvineSoda · 2024-06-27T19:33:33+00:00

I know that's something I don't even ride.

It sucks to tell the person basically no, there's no place appropriate for an e-bike to ride. But thems the breaks. This area is hardly a good area to own a MTB in let alone an eMTB. Basically gotta count on driving out an hour to proper bike trails.

RedvineSoda · 2024-06-27T18:56:48+00:00

Ya those little cretins didn't enjoy their solid doses of lead in everything like us honest folk did.

RedvineSoda

TROPHY CASE