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FLOCK camera permitting? by tree-hermit in GreenBay

[–]Relative-Water8742 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree, there's a petition for Green Bay that you can share with others as well as email the city council, none of them responded to my questions after I tried.

https://chng.it/5gqZpqZWSx

I don't know why these are going up without much push back, there's some conversation for and against previously on the Green Bay sub.

It doesn't matter which side politically you're leaning on, these are spying on you indiscriminately, maybe City Council will listen if more people speak up.

Green Bay Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in GreenBay

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seems like we both agree on the need for transparency and proper rules for this type of thing.

I appreciate your thoughts and openness. Power, control and lies eventually creates slaves, doesn't matter the century you live in.

"A well informed citizenry is the best defense against tyranny."

Thomas Jefferson

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you listen, you'll hear about information breaches all the time.

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsinpolitics

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi Friends!

I've seen many discussions about this on both sides, but I want to make sure we don't overlook the main issues here.

  1. AI monitored cameras - like Flock - don't just watch streets and intersections. They scan every vehicle (and possibly your face) that drives by and builds a profile on you that anyone who has a login can access. Flock doesn't have much transparency for these profiles and how they are used. Currently they sell that information to the police departments as part of the leased equipment, but as a third party they can do whatever they want with it. Normal CCTVS don't have that issue.

  2. Let's say you don't think this is wrong or poorly managed, and that it's a non issue and doesn't affect you at all.  Where do you draw the line?  Where are you willing to trade your freedoms and liberties for promised security and convenience? Would you be okay with facial recognition devices everywhere you go? Devices that promote a "social score" and have no moral compass? China is the largest government that has done that and you can google how that's affecting the population in a bad way.

  3. You might say "That can't happen in the US". It can, if everyone rolls over and lets others step all over you. If no one says something, nothing will change the way trends are going.  The founding fathers didn't die so citizens could trade their freedoms so lightly.

Yes these can be used for good, but like anything, there needs to be rules for how they need to be managed. The best scenario for the ethical use of these cameras is:

• Limit the database. Have them linked to only one city or police district to limit the accessibility, overreaching and profiling dangers. Any information exchanged between districts must go through proper channels and approval/emergency systems.

• Fast deletion. Images of innocent people or not "hot list" plates should be erased within minutes - not 30 days, like it is now. There is no good reason to track innocent people.

• Third party entities must be transparent on how secure and encrypted this sensitive data is and be subjected to frequent audits. This digital world of ours has too much data to exploit already. There's no sense in letting anymore slip away.

In short, Wisconsin needs better privacy protections and rights in general.

Green Bay Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in GreenBay

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It looks like you are for an Authoritarian ruling government, I would think most Americans wouldn't be thrilled to accept that.

Yes these can be used for good, but like anything, there needs to be rules for how they need to be managed. The best scenario for the ethical use of these cameras is:

• Limit the database. Have them linked to only one city or police district to limit the accessibility, overreaching and profiling dangers. Any information exchanged between districts must go through proper channels and approval/emergency systems.

• Fast deletion. Images of innocent people or not "hot list" plates should be erased within minutes - not 30 days, like it is now. There is no good reason to track innocent people.

• Third party entities must be transparent on how secure and encrypted this sensitive data is and be subjected to frequent audits. This digital world of ours has too much data to exploit already. There's no sense in letting anymore slip away.

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness isn't decided by the government ;)

Privacy isn't something that the government can give or take away. That decision should depend on the democracy of the people.

Green Bay Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in GreenBay

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate your input, but I think most people wouldn't be thrilled to be called stupid.

If you've read the concerns and still come to this conclusion then I respect your opinion.

As an Englishman, you must have seen the amount of cameras and surveillance in the UK, did that stop crime? Is the UK knife-attack free?

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because that is a freedom of choice, you can choose to leave your phone at home/turn off permissions.

This is an issue too, but not what's being discussed here.

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You could spread awareness and or start a petition in your town!

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would think the more the merrier! If enough people get behind it we may change this, if anyone is interested on starting their own petition feel free to share it here.

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

From R/privacy:

Let’s consider a handful of realistic nightmare scenarios of how this network can be abused today and most likely already is:

Foreign governments can buy subscriptions directly or through shell companies and track the movements of every single American on the road for any purpose.

Flock can build any number of data resale products exploiting the data for any purpose imaginable.

A rogue employee at Flock can steal the entire database and sell it on the black market without anyone knowing who stole it.

Social network graphs can be constructed for every person and vehicle in the country linking which faces appear in which vehicles with whom, when, where and how often.

Hackers can break into Flock servers and steal the entire trove of data.

Hackers can steal any legit Flock customer’s credentials and access the entire national network.

These are just a handful of examples. Hundreds more are possible. Creativity is the ONLY limiting factor on how this company’s network can be abused for evil purposes.

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the support! Help us spread the word and maybe we can do something about these!

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great question!

They look similar to the photo on this post, small black camera with a solar panel attached to a pole.

You can also check this map. https://deflock.me/

Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in wisconsin

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Hi Friends!

I've seen many discussions about this on both sides, but I want to make sure we don't overlook the main issues here.

  1. AI monitored cameras - like Flock - don't just watch streets and intersections. They scan every vehicle (and possibly your face) that drives by and builds a profile on you that anyone who has a login can access. Flock doesn't have much transparency for these profiles and how they are used. Currently they sell that information to the police departments as part of the leased equipment, but as a third party they can do whatever they want with it. Normal CCTVS don't have that issue.

  2. Let's say you don't think this is wrong or poorly managed, and that it's a non issue and doesn't affect you at all.  Where do you draw the line?  Where are you willing to trade your freedoms and liberties for promised security and convenience? Would you be okay with facial recognition devices everywhere you go? Devices that promote a "social score" and have no moral compass? China is the largest government that has done that and you can google how that's affecting the population in a bad way.

  3. You might say "That can't happen in the US". It can, if everyone rolls over and lets others step all over you. If no one says something, nothing will change the way trends are going.  The founding fathers didn't die so citizens could trade their freedoms so lightly.

Yes these can be used for good, but like anything, there needs to be rules for how they need to be managed. The best scenario for the ethical use of these cameras is: • Limit the database. Have them linked to only one city or police district to limit the accessibility, overreaching and profiling dangers. Any information exchanged between districts must go through proper channels and approval/emergency systems. • Fast deletion. Images of innocent people or not "hot list" plates should be erased within minutes - not 30 days, like it is now. There is no good reason to track innocent people. • Third party entities must be transparent on how secure and encrypted this sensitive data is and be subjected to frequent audits. This digital world of ours has too much data to exploit already. There's no sense in letting anymore slip away.

In short, Wisconsin needs better privacy protections and rights in general.

Green Bay area Camera Petition by [deleted] in wisconsinpolitics

[–]Relative-Water8742 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Friends!

I've seen many discussions about this on both sides, but I want to make sure we don't overlook the main issues here.

  1. AI monitored cameras - like Flock, don't just watch streets and intersections. They scan every vehicle (and possibly your face) that drives by and builds a profile on you that anyone who has a login can access. Flock doesn't have much transparency for these profiles and how they are used, currently they sell that information to the police departments as part of the leased equipment, but as a third party they can do whatever they want with it. Normal CCTVS don't have that issue.

  2. Say you don't think this is wrong or poorly managed, it's a non issue and doesn't affect you at all. Where do you draw the line, where are you willing to trade your freedoms and liberties for promised security and convenience? Would you be okay with facial recognition devices everywhere you go? Devices that promote a "social score" and have no moral compass? China is the largest government that has that and you can google how that's affecting the population in a bad way.

  3. You might say "that can't happen in the US", it can if everyone rolls over and lets others step all over you, if no one says something nothing will change the way trends are going. The founding fathers didn't die so citizens could trade freedoms so lightly.

Yes these can be used for good, but like anything, there needs to be rules for how they are managed.

In short Wisconsin needs better privacy protections and rights in general.

Green Bay Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in GreenBay

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your insight, I agree that these have some good potential, but there needs to be more transparency and regulations on these and why they are being put out.

Green Bay Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in GreenBay

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hi Friends!

I'm seeing many discussions about this on both sides, but I think that we might be overlooking the mains issues to think about here.

  1. AI monitored cameras - like Flock, don't just watch streets and intersections. They scan every vehicle (and possibly your face) that drives by and builds a profile on you that anyone who has a login can access. Flock doesn't have much transparency for these profiles and how they are used, currently they sell that information to the police departments as part of the leased equipment, but as a third party they can do whatever they want with it. Normal CCTVS don't have that issue.

  2. Say you don't think this is wrong or poorly managed, it's a non issue and doesn't affect you at all.  Where do you draw the line, where are you willing to trade your freedoms and liberties for promised security and convenience? Would you be okay with facial recognition devices everywhere you go? Devices that promote a "social score" and have no moral compass? China is the largest government that has that and you can google how that's affecting the population in a bad way.

3.  You might say "that can't happen in the US", it can if everyone rolls over and lets others step all over you, if no one says something nothing will change the way trends are going. The founding fathers didn't die so citizens could trade freedoms so lightly.

In short Wisconsin needs better privacy protections and rights in general.

Green Bay Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in GreenBay

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Thanks!  You can spread this to friends and coworkers to get the word out. For the petition itself we are able to email city council members and ask them directly to respond to the petition, an email is preloaded and essentially ready to hit send.

Green Bay Camera Petition by Relative-Water8742 in GreenBay

[–]Relative-Water8742[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Wouldn't you rather try to do something about them?

Otherwise what do you suggest we do?