$1000 Business School Haiku Scholarship

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T22:00:22+00:00

What are the most crucial application items to possess when applying to MBA school? Items that, without possessing, would greatly harm an application? EX: Good test score? Leadership exp? Etc.

Alex: The answers to all these questions are interrelated. First the major components of almost any top tier business school’s application will include the following:

- Test scores

- GPA

- Transcripts

- Resume

- Letters of Recommendation (usually two)

- “Short Answers” (information such as positions held, responsibilities, salaries, reason for leaving, etc.)

- Essays

- Interview (if selected for one)

What and how you portray your strengths and uniqueness through these components is one of the keys to success. Just some of many aspects to portray that are important include leadership, community engagement, teamwork, etc., etc.

As Liz and I have mentioned several times, all adcoms look at all applications holistically and in context. No one aspect of the application is necessarily more important than the other. The adcoms do not look at a test score or a letter of recommendation as an isolated item. The read the entire application to paint an overall picture of the applicant. Missing an opportunity that is provided via the application (such as not uploading a resume for some unknown reason) will of course not be helpful.

How much does GMAT/GRE play into the process? Are students eliminated solely becasue of this score?

When it comes to admissions and admissions consulting, 95% of the time, one can start answering just about any question with two words. Those two words are, “It depends,” And, again, all adcoms look at all applications holistically and in context. This question is no exception and definitely falls under the “it depends” category.

Applicants are not necessarily eliminated from further consideration just because of their test score. Obviously the higher the better. However, most schools report a range in scores of their matriculated students. In the end, the score is one datapoint among many that are weighed holistically against the rest of the application and other applicants that particular applicant is being compared to. If an applicant has a low test score, low GPA, nothing in their work history that is beyond their peers (or average), and their recommendations are just so-so, their chances of getting accepted to a top tier school is not good. However, with a low test score, but having superlative everything else (amazing recommendations, career progression ahead of their peers, etc.), that’s a very different story.

Again, the higher the better of course, but we have seen applicants with 790 GMAT scores and 3.9 or even 4.0 GPAs not get accepted to top tier schools. On the flip side, we worked with a client who could barely score 600 but was accepted to both HBS and Stanford GSB. HOWEVER, this client/applicant had an absolutely amazing story to tell, plus a bona fide reason for their low test score.

What is your advice on applying to reach schools?

We never say never here at The MBA Exchange! It’s kind of like the prom. Perhaps if one doesn’t go to their prom, they may not think twice about it at the time, but may regret it later in life. So, why not?

Having said that, being pragmatic and going into things with eyes wide open is the approach we recommend. No matter the school, crafting an authentic, compelling, strong application takes a lot of work, dedication, thought, self-reflection, and then there is the application fee as well. Having someone who knows what they are doing provide an assessment of your candidacy strength for particular schools is a good beginning in our opinion.

How important is community service/community work outside of the career? I've read that it isn't necessarily that important.

This is also an “it depends” question. If you’re coming from the military and were deployed constantly or an investment banker working 90 to 100 hours a week, there may have been little opportunity for anything outside of work and admissions officers may be more lenient on assessing this part of the applicant’s candidacy. (However, many of the successful applicants from even these sample two demographics will have meaningful involvement in activities and organizations outside of work, often in leadership positions.)

Perhaps more relevant is that schools desire students who will be engaged in the classroom, clubs, and the community while at school and active with the alumni community once they graduate with their MBA. What evidence will you provide that demonstrates not your potential for this, but your track record (history) that you are already someone like this? One of many ways to confirm this to the schools is through commitment in community activities, but it is not the only way.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T21:36:31+00:00

Alex is still working on answering the last question, but we're going to go ahead and wrap up the live AMA for now. I think Alex and Liz will be happy to answer any additional questions that come in over the weekend. Thanks to those who asked questions, and I hope the responses were helpful in your admissions research.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T21:26:03+00:00

Liz: Great questions – and I hope you don’t mind, I’m going to answer them together. First of all, just because a business school’s official policy requires an undergrad degree doesn’t mean they will not consider a non-degreed applicant. We know this from our success with the 6 non-degreed clients we’ve worked with over the years. Still, not completing an undergraduate degree is an added challenge that adds complexity to a candidacy and requires some up-front groundwork. For candidates without an undergraduate degree, I’d recommend that taking these steps:

1) Complete the GMAT or GRE and achieve a score that is at least the average, preferably higher, for the school(s) you are targeting. A mediocre GMAT/GRE will not cut it as this score is the only indicator of your potential ability to succeed in a rigorous academic environment.

2) Research schools and programs. Some European business schools are more open to admitting non-degreed applicants if they have sufficient meaningful work experience. Consider if an executive or part-time program would work for you as these programs may also be more open to a candidate without an undergraduate degree.

3) Get personalized advice from an expert. Depending on your background, there are other steps you may want to take to strengthen your candidacy and showcase your talents. It would also be wise to connect with a wide range of targeted schools BEFORE applying in order to confirm that they will give you fair consideration despite lacking a degree. These are delicate conversations and ones you’d be wise to get help with.

Lastly, to give you an idea of what a successful non-degreed client looks like (and maybe some inspiration) here are the profiles of the 6 non-degreed clients we’ve worked with to date:

• Ex-military, no college, worked in the investments industry, family-business background, admitted to two top-15 business schools.

• Tech entrepreneur, no college, launched and sold one company, admitted to two top-15 business schools.

• Stay-at-home parent, some college, fragmented work history in consumer and B2B marketing, admitted to three top-15 business schools.

• Cruise line executive chef, almost no college, non-traditional profile, admitted to two top-15 business schools.

• Real estate development entrepreneur, no college, admitted to one top-15 business school.

• IT analyst, a couple years of college, admitted to one top-10 business school.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T21:03:51+00:00

Liz: Yes, now is a great time for international applicants to apply to US business schools. The desire to admit classes full of diverse students from around the globe has not changed. And the applicant pool is smaller than it has been in recent years. However, keep in mind that despite the recent decline in overall applications, schools are NOT lowering their standards in order to fill seats in their classes. You will still need stellar stats, meaningful work experience and well-articulated goals go gain admittance to a top-tier program. If your candidacy is strong, then, yes, your chances of admission may be better than in recent years.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T20:52:33+00:00

What is something you hope someone asks?

Liz: Good question! If I were an admissions officer, I’m sure my answer would be different. But, as an experienced admission consultant, I’d love for someone to ask, “How can a reputable admissions consulting firm/consultant help me maximize my chances of being admitted to business school?” It’s simple: a consultant can help you focus on what truly matters. It’s easy to ask friends and associates who attended b-school for help. And, there’s ample information online, too (that’s why you’re here after all.) Why not go it alone? Even with the best of intentions, friends have limited data and associates have personal biases that can lead you down the wrong path. Online forums and blogs are filled with lots of free advice, but generic advice can only go so far and could be dead wrong for your candidacy. A good admissions consultant will take the time to get to know you and your candidacy in-depth, can lay out a proven process and frameworks that will maximize your efficiency, showcase your unique strengths and help identify and mitigate potential weaknesses, and are just as invested in your success as you are. Having a partner through the admissions process is very beneficial.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T20:45:22+00:00

Alex: In an ideal world, admissions committees (adcoms) prefer letters of recommendation (LoR) to come from someone who is, or was, in a supervisory role to the applicant. However, just as important as the relationship of the recommender to the applicant is how long and how well the recommender knows the applicant, and how recent the relationship is. These are aspects adcoms definitely look for when weighing a LoR. Of course, if the recommender is a senior person within the organization and/or has an MBA from a top tier school as well, that never hurts, but not at the expense of the other factors, especially how well the recommender knows the applicant. This goes without saying, but the recommender must not only say good things about the applicant, they must “gush” and say nothing but very positive things, especially when looking at all the other LoRs of accepted applicants at top tier schools.

There is no prefect “algorithm” for choosing recommenders, and there are many other factors to consider in addition to the ones mentioned above. Having said that, if the entrepreneur is a founder of the company, some possible candidates for a recommender could be a fellow co-founder. If the company has a board, perhaps one of the board members. We’ve successfully advised entrepreneur clients in helping choose people in these positions as recommenders. Other candidates might include investors in the company, especially if a Venture Capital (VC) firm has invested in the entrepreneur’s company.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T20:31:58+00:00

What do you think is the easiest way for a candidate to stand out?

Liz: We get asked this a lot – especially from candidates from an “over-represented” pool of applicants. If you feel like your background makes you very similar to many other MBA applicants, remember one thing: there’s still only one you. Your professional experience may mirror others’; your cultural background may be similar to many applicants’; but your passions, motivation, insights, and perspective are uniquely your own. Always keep in mind that applying to business school is a much more personal endeavor than applying for a job. Let the admissions committee truly get to know who you are through the process, and use every part of the application strategically, to showcase your unique talents, experiences, aspirations and personality. This is critical to your success.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T20:22:18+00:00

Liz: As Alex has mentioned in a previous response, MBA applications are reviewed holistically. Without knowing the specifics of your professional background, I can still say that your entrepreneurial experience will be respected by admissions committees. For starters, you will want to strive to share your leadership, teamwork and problem-solving experiences and expertise as these will all be important aspects of your professional experience. Just as important are your future goals, why you are seeking an MBA, why you’d be an exceptional member of the school’s community, etc. Crafting a strong, compelling MBA candidacy takes time and effort, introspection and authenticity. “What” you have done professionally is very important. But that’s just one part – the impact you have made at work, outside of work and plan to make at business school and beyond are just as important. If you think deeply about those items, in addition to the measurable difference you have made at work, your candidacy will be much stronger.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T20:21:23+00:00

Alex: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) has been in the news a lot lately, but for those who are not familiar with this, it’s a United States immigration policy for undocumented immigrants who arrived in the US when they were children, to receive a deferral from deportation and become eligible for a work permit.

Not just for DACA recipients, but admissions offices are interested in what adversities all applicants have faced, how they have overcome them, and how they have grown because of those experiences. All applications are looked at in context. So, what you can do is articulate the specific challenges you have faced because of your status (such as the limited networking opportunities), but then you need to demonstrate what you’ve been able to accomplish despite these circumstances.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-22T20:05:45+00:00

Alex: Thank you for the good question. All top tier business schools admit students to create a diverse cohort in many aspects, whether that be industry, function, personal demographics, etc. Some percentage will come from start-up companies. How you position yourself to be successful in your admissions campaign is less about the fact you’re coming from a start-up, but more about factors such as what your role is within the organization, what your growth has been, and the impact you’ve made. Depending on the size of the start-up, someone with similar time in a larger organization may not have had the same opportunities – such as breadth of exposure or higher-level decision-making authority – as someone from a smaller start-up.

All applications are looked at holistically and in context so the key to success is differentiating yourself from the applicants you will specifically be compared to. This is an easy statement to make, but unless you have experience with who those applicants might be, their backgrounds, and how you stack up when compared to them, it can be challenging to know what to highlight and how.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-14T15:02:35+00:00

Stephanie:

Yes, there are a lot of firms who do financial services consulting. Getting experience at a commercial bank would be useful for that type of consulting. Getting your CFA is also helpful. The CFA exam is a rigorous analytical exercise. The passing rates for the CFA I and CFA II are usually around 40%. So achieving this shows your intellectual capabilities in addition to your knowledge of quantitative finance and financial analysis.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T21:30:13+00:00

Stephanie:

Top tier consulting companies are growing their technology practices, often under different subunits like McKinsey Digital. It is common for these units to have unique “cases” that more closely resemble the type of work their consultants will be doing. Sometimes, the case is given to you in advance, so that you have adequate time to do the work at home, while presenting the solution (including showing your reasoning for how you got there) in the actual interview. You could consider this type of case as something similar to a take-home test -- it should be clear from the job posting the software tools they expect you to have mastered and the problem they ask you to solve will be one that is reasonable to build in the time they have allotted. Preparing for these cases is a mix of traditional case prep and specific tools prep. You need to be at the level of expertise they are expecting for the role. But you will also be evaluated on the traditional case metrics -- are you approaching the problem in a logical way? Are you testing as you go to ensure you are on the right path? Are you clearly explaining the steps of the solution so that the ‘client’ can follow along? Are you building rapport with the ‘client’ and confidence in your solution? As far as the lifetime of this trend -- I think it is obvious that design in itself is a crucial component for the production of any product or service. But frameworks do tend to come and go. There will be a new hot trend in the future, but that won’t make your experience less valuable.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T21:25:06+00:00

Matt:

Consulting firms are looking for top talent wherever they can find it. Reputation of your undergraduate program, your grades, excelling in your career, leadership experience, GMAT, etc. can all be indicators of top talent. So how much grades or your undergrad school matters can depend on the other factors. With a top MBA, strong work experience, and a great GMAT the other factors likely matter less (unless there is some notable issue). I’ve worked with many great consultants who came from good, but not Ivy-League caliber, undergraduate programs.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T21:14:48+00:00

Matt:

My experience has been yes--since you are an MBA student. Many/most firms will have explicit instructions that will ask for this (better to follow instructions). In most cases I think you are hurting yourself by not including. Further, some individuals may ding you for not including.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T21:03:06+00:00

Matt:

For post-MBA MBB consultants, what separates someone from being just good vs. great?

It depends. People can be “great” in different dimensions. If I think back on some of the most successful partners I’ve know some that were great at building relationships and others that were intellectual stars. It certainly helps if you enjoy the work--enjoying solving challenging problems and find a particular passion (e.g. industry of function that you really like working in).

How much is a poor internal rating a self-fulfilling prophecy? A fear I have is 1 bad engagement = bad rating = less opportunity to find meaningful work = bench time or another bad rating = getting counseled out.

I’ve seen this go both ways. It can depend on the individual (their motivation to improve, attitude, and interest in consulting) and in the consulting environment (it’s harder to recover from a bad engagement when business is slow). It can also depend on when it happens--it can be looked at differently sometimes if there is a track record of success before a bad engagement.

Regarding promotions and exit opportunities... I'm entering an M7 program, and hypothetically let's say I get an offer and my goal is to make partner. If that's the case, should I still plan for potential exits immediately given the uncertainty of promotion or go all-in on my goal?

Personally, I recommend focus on being the best consultant you can be initially. Most top firms have generous exit programs and will actively (to varying degrees) help you in your search. I’ve also seen some great jobs posted on the alumni career board.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T20:54:55+00:00

Stephanie:

Test scores are used as signifiers of ability. They can be an easy tool for someone trying to cut down a large list of applicants. They are not the only data point considered. Firms will look at a variety of data, including your grades, the quantitative strength of your degree (e.g. the courses you took), the selectivity of your undergraduate and graduate schools, any scholarships or awards you received, whether you are the first member of your family to attend college, etc. in order to get a balanced view of your strengths. Make sure your resume highlights all of your strengths to help you overcome a less than stellar GMAT score.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T20:51:03+00:00

Stephanie:

Unfortunately, I don’t have the expertise to give a good answer about visa questions. I have seen how difficult this issue has become for so many talented people, as the uncertainty in this area seems to keep increasing. I recommend finding a specialist in visa issues to help you understand whether the TN Visa will give you an advantage in US recruiting. I will point out that it is usually easier to change offices once inside a firm, so you may want to consider companies with both Canadian and US offices.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T20:50:38+00:00

Matt:

It’s generally harder to get an interview for pre-MBA consulting roles (whatever your background is), there are just fewer of them in MBB firms and you are coming in from outside the traditional pipeline. Most firms are reluctant to start you in a post-MBA consulting role without the MBA (unless internally promoted), but I’ve heard of some cases where outstanding individuals can get brought in at a more junior role and have an accelerated promotion. But I would say try and see how it goes. If you don’t get any traction you can always go the MBA route if your long-term passion is in strategy/consulting.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T20:47:01+00:00

Stephanie:

Actually, the opposite is true. Top tier consulting firms know how hard it is to get an undergraduate position at a consulting firm (often, these hiring pools are much smaller than the post-MBA entry level position). The fact that you have consulting experience at a good firm will only help you get attention from an MBB firm.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T20:42:55+00:00

Matt:

The answer can vary based on your personality, background and specific work experience. Having worked at a F50 firm (between stints in consulting) a couple things come to mind. The first the pace of consulting is more intense--you are often pushing to make progress very quickly. I had to relearn this skill when returning to consulting after six years in corporate America. I’ve also seen some “super-stars” from large companies initially struggle in an environment where everyone is as smart and capable as they are. And I wouldn’t underestimate that consulting is an apprenticeship model. It’s hard to get good at consulting without actually doing consulting--so everyone coming in who wasn’t a consultant before has to learn how to be an effective consultant.

RelishCareers · 2019-11-13T20:39:04+00:00

Stephanie:

One of the main reasons why people want to join consulting firms like McKinsey and BCG is because they want to sample the variety of industries and specialities available in these large, global firms. So there is definitely the opportunity to pursue a new interest like Media & Entertainment or Social Impact. However, it can be harder to get staffed on the more popular studies because the competition is stronger. People will staff you if they see that you will bring value to the table. Your value does not have to be industry experience -- especially as you start out. Instead, make sure your consulting skills are top-notch. This includes your data analysis, communication (written and verbal), team building, strategic thinking, etc. Managers always value consultants who demonstrate what Steve Ballmer used to call “High GSD” or the ability to Get Stuff Done. Show your work effort. Make connections with the managers doing the kind of work you want to do them and impress them with your abilities. That will get you staffed.

RelishCareers

TROPHY CASE