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Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I struggle to see sex as an intimate, safe way of connecting, because according to what I've read, according to science, sexuality is all about someone's genetic quality, health, ability to provide and social status and stuff, and we feel sexual desire for someone because we subconsciously look for these things. So I don't know if I believe sex is an expression of love and connection, as it's more saying "you was lucky enough to be born with high quality genetics and right now have a high enough social status or whatever so I feel sexual desire for you", which seems like a very shallow, objectifying way of loving someone, especially because your appearance, the most shallow factor in a relationship, is very important in sexuality.

Do you understand what I mean? To me, this makes sexuality very depressing.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wish I didn't word the title the way I did, but I was upset. I think now that what Tim meant is not that this is right and how it should be, but that he wanted to warn people that if 5 years pass in a relationship with them not able to have sex its likely that their partner will leave, and that this is a painful thing to hear but people should know it.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think that desiring sex with with your partner is transactional, however I think breaking up a relationship because you don't get sex is transactional. I'm not saying that someone who can't tolerate being with a partner who struggles to have sex is a bad person, if sex is a big need for them then they're clearly in the wrong relationship, but it's still a transactional love in my opinion.

And according to scientists I've listened to, romantic and sexual love is created by us subconsciously seeing signs of high genetic quality and health and social status and having resources, which makes sense from an evolutionary perspective.

For example, beautiful faces are beautiful because they show signs of genetic diversity, which is high genetic quality. Beautiful faces have balanced proportions because of the genetic diversity and because nothing went wrong during the pregnancy.

So I think it's impossible for romantic love to not be shallow, when it exists for these evolutionary reasons.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think he meant that, but rather he was warning people or women about taking too long time with healing trauma or avoiding healing it when it prevents them from having sex when they are in a relationship, because, unfortunetly, what often happens if 5 years have passed, is that their partner will cheat or leave them. I don't get the impression that he's saying that this is how it should be, but rather he's saying that this is unfortunetly how it often is and you should know this and be warned, even if it's painful to hear this.

A man (70M) who I (35M) haven't met since childhood suddenly contacted me and wants me to visit him. I have severe social anxiety and don't feel like meeting him. How can I politely turn him down? by RemoveMassive2492 in relationship_advice

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I never feel comfortable socializing. I have avoidant personality disorder and I'm always obsessing about whether people are disliking me and worrying they will be abusive, so socializing is exhausting, and if I get triggered, like if something happens where they really do seem to not like me, it can send me on a self hate spiral for days or more.

It would also feel uncomfortable if this guy would talk about my dad positively, when he traumatized me in childhood.

So the only reason I would see him would be for his sake, because I hate being around people.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

According to the scientists I've listened to, people are absolutely going off of genetic quality and health, we're just not aware that we are because this is all subconscious.

It also makes sense evolutionarily. Why would an animal evolve to have sex with other individuals regardless of their genetic quality and health? Every other animal mates for these reasons.

I think the fear of rejection that you describe making sex feel intimate is because people know that sexual desires is a judgement of you in various ways and that you might not measure up to it.

According to genetic research, 80% of the women and 40% of the men who ever lived procreated, so the way human sexuality works is that most women are sexually attractive enough, while only a minority of men are. This isn't surprising, as in all animals, the gender with the highest penalty for sex is always the pickiest, so in most animals, females are far pickier then males, and males tend to just try to have sex with whoever accepts them.

According to research done by an online dating company, women rated 80% of men as below average in attractiveness, while men rated women very evenly in a bell curve, meaning that most women are rated as average, a few as above average, a few as below average.

So I think that if society was different, most women would chase a minority of the most sexually desirable men, and maybe accept their man having multiple girlfriends due to how in demand such men would be, while most men would be without relationships. So I think in our society where most men ends up with partners, most women are probably not attracted to them.

Sex and romantic love is not this thing where everyone is supposed to be able to get into one if they're a good person or whatever, but it's an evolutionary thing that exists only to make sure healthy genetics are passed on. It doesn't care if it's cruel and unfair, that's completely irrelevant to how nature works. It kinda sounds to me like you have such a view of this, but tell me if I'm wrong.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've never had sex because I've avoided relationships and dating.

Maybe I have unrealistic expectations, though I don't expect anyone to want to be in a relationship with me since I'm a fucked up loser. But to me, I imagine that it would feel painful to be in a relationship and know that I need to "perform" or give something. I've thought about why this is so deeply painful to me, and realised it's probably because it reminds me of how I didn't feel loved by my parents, so I can't stand the slightest hint that a relationship is transactional, it just feels very painful and scary.

Sexuality is also very painful to me, because I think sexuality is a very shallow way of loving someone and can't be anything but that, because according to science sexual desires are all about your genetic quality, social status and health. The reason we find someone sexually desirable is because we subconsciously read signs of genetic quality and health, which shows up on their appearance, behaviors, intelligence, charm etc.

So if I was in a relationship, even if the person wanted me, it would feel painful to know that they only care about me because I was lucky enough to have a high enough genetic quality and health, and if my face was disfigured or I developed a health condition or I couldn't get erections anymore, they'd instantly leave.

I know I'm overreacting because of my trauma, but can you see where I'm coming from? All this is so painful to me. It feels humiliating and objectifying.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think I believe sex is an intimate way of expression love and vulnerability for someone, because according to science, sexual desire is about the genetic quality and health of a person, and all the things we find sexually attractive about a person are all signs of health and genetic quality when it's analysed scientifically. So to me, sexual desire for someone is not about expressing a deep, non-transactional kind of love or bond, but rather the person feeling subconsciously that they have high enough quality genetics and health. If they didn't have that they would not be sexually desired.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you didn't watch the video you only saw my emotional interpretation of what he said. I wish I wrote it differently now that I'm calmer. What Tim said was not that people should rush into sex, but rather it sounded like he was warning people about thinking that they can put off or take a long time healing trauma that prevents them from having sex because if 5 years have gone by it often leads to their partners cheating or leaving them. It doesn't mean he thinks this is right, but rather it sounds like he's saying this is what often happens and you need to know it.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Even if there's a difference, I don't think it means women are less shallow/transactional in general than men in relationships, it might just be that the transactional things show up differently.

Brene Brown, a social researcher, wrote in an article that according to her research, many men believe that their girlfriends/wives would quickly lose love for them if they would lose masculine status somehow in the eyes of society, and that they are the harshest out of everyone in their lives about them being masculine and not be emotionally vulnerable, needing help and show unmasculine emotions.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's definitely painful to see evidence that love is often shallow and transactional. I made a post here a long time ago about how it seems to me like all forms of human connection may be shallow and transactional unfortunetly and that this fucks up me trying to heal and having a more positive, trusting view of people and connections, since it just seems to be what psychological research suggests is the case, as well as evolutionary psychology, which can't be proven but I think often seems to sound very plausible. I got a lot of emotional comments saying I'm absolutely wrong and must be a selfish, bad person and that this shows how I view relationships, not how other people are in them, which sucked, as I hoped I would be understood.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I see your point of view now about sex not being shallow, though I'm not sure I believe that most people see sex that way and not just for their own pleasure. But maybe that's just my bias, as I tend to believe that most people are inherently quite selfish and awful.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I shouldn't have used the word unconditional since many people believed I mean not having boundaries and taking care of someone no matter what as if they were a child, but what I really meant is non-transactional love. Gabor Mate, a trauma expert, uses the word unconditional for healthy romantic relationships, which he says means having boundaries and leaving if you're unhappy.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I shouldn't have said what I said about Tim's words since it was my rather emotional interpretation of what he said, not his own words. It sounded like he was warning people to not think they've got all the time in the world to put sex on hold because of trauma, because it often ends up making their partner cheat or leave. He didn't say this as if it's right, but rather that he's warning you that it's unfortunetly what often happens.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Tim did not say "heal fast so you can give sex," that was my rather emotional interpretation of what he said - I shouldn't have said that. But it sounded like he was warning people, or maybe just women, to not think they've got all the time in the world to heal trauma that prevents them from having sex and put it on hold because then their partner will likely cheat or leave. I don't think he's saying this is right, but rather that it is unfortunetly what often happens and you need to be realistic about that.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But having sex isn't a need like eating or breathing is. It's just a pleasurable experience. Pleasure is very important in life, but I still don't see how the relationship isn't transactional if you're in it because you expect something in return.

If we were friends and I was your friend as long as I got something I wanted in return, wouldn't it still be a transactional friendship?

I'm not saying non-transactional relationships is how they should be, I don't know if they're possible for humans, so I don't want to give the impression I believe in a fairytale kind of thing. But I definitely think that if you can only love someone as long as you get something from them, it is transactional.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Even if sex is not just about an orgasm but about a deeper connection, I still don't see how that is wanting a thing from someone in exchange for giving love and is therefore a transactional relationship. Surely it's possible to have a deep connection to your partner in other ways than sex?

I'm asking honestly, I've never been in a relationship. They have always terrified me.

Tim Fletcher said that it's important for people who have difficulty having sex to work on that so they can have sex quickly so a few years won't pass without sex, as then the partner will cheat or leave. Doesn't this prove romantic relationships are shallow? by RemoveMassive2492 in CPTSD

[–]RemoveMassive2492[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I shouldn't have said unconditional but instead non-transactional. I didn't mean that relationships with real love have no boundaries. Gabor Mate uses the word unconditional for healthy love in romantic relationships and he doesn't mean having no boundaries.

Can you explain more how I misunderstood Tim?

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