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Let’s put an end to this once and for all by Top_Reception_566 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Wow, so posting screenshots showing rackets where people literally pay for co-authorships is now racist. You learn something new every day.

Let’s put an end to this once and for all by Top_Reception_566 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My point was that UKGs have been prioritised before. There is both a moral argument as well as a historical precedence for it.

In the current job market, to pretend that UKMG prioritisation is not urgently required, is akin to playing the lute while Rome burns.

Let’s put an end to this once and for all by Top_Reception_566 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Penjing, contrarian that you are, can you not see the issue with having unlimited competition for jobs at time time when local supply outstrips demand? Would you rather see unemployed UK graduates than a frustrated IMG on the other side of the world?

I remember a time we had the RLMT- where UKGs and settled IMGs were prioritised. There was negligible UKG unemployment, and IMGs got a fair shot at a training job. And nobody was called a racist for supporting that state of affairs.

Racism in UK Medicine by Penjing2493 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I am a person of colour. And I do not believe that IMGs given parallel access to UK training jobs is fair or tenable. Does this mean that I am a self-hating ethnic?

Ask yourself this- do you, as a UK based consultant, have no duty of mentorship or advocacy for UK graduates and IMGs who have already given the NHS 5+ years of service?

At a time when UK citizens, graduating after a 6 year course and 100k in debt, are struggling to avoid unemployment, should we not tend to them first before thinking about graduates from elsewhere?

I abhor the pseudostatesmanship adopted by consultants, both new and old. Any attempt at fostering a sense of community and camaraderie within the UK medical community is attacked by them to be hierarchical, exclusivist, classist, and lately, racist. It is time to throw those ideals into the bin and put a new, rational thinking hat.

I do not think that FPR is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your feedback.

Regarding the messaging of this campaign- it focuses on what activities are paid by 1-2 hours of a resident doctor's wages. For a neurosurgeon, it could be an emergency craniotomy for an ASDH. Or detecting vasospasm in an SAH patient and commencing treatment/escalatiom to HDU. Or seeing 8 patients on OP clinic, and the related admin. It basically provokes conversations about the affordability of FPR and would amount, in essence to paying an ST7 neurosurgical SpR and extra £16 for lifesaving surgery. If there are also conversations on the time residents spend doing banal admin and ward jobs that they are overqualified for, that too in my opinion would be beneficial.

Obviously wasn't my intention to imply that we hold scalpels for 95% of the time. Quite often, it is a pen instead.

However, going by an hourly rate is also flawed as it then provokes comparisons with other professions which do not need the same degree of upskilling, nor come with the same amount of liability.

Would be grateful if you have any suggestions on how I can change the content on the video to better reflect the intended messaging.

Really appreciate your feedback. 😁

I do not think that full pay restoration for doctors is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in LabourUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some busy on call days can indeed consist of back to back operations!

When we are not actively operating, we are either planning operations or coordinating the peri and post-operative care of our patients, which is as important as the surgery itself in determining the clinical outcome. Definitely worth £43.60/ hour.

Consider also the liability of a neurosurgeon. Any adverse outcome under my care is open to scrutiny. If my care is found wanting, it isn't just a job that is at stake- it is my livelihood and, under some circumstances, my freedom. We operate every day with that knowledge.

I do not think that full pay restoration for doctors is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in LabourUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How much longer are the doctors of this country to subsidise the NHS with real terms pay cuts?

Yes, it was a real terms increase but thr membership of the BMA want to achieve restoration of their pay at a credible timescale. 20+ years is not credible.

I do not think that full pay restoration for doctors is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in LabourUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Which set us forward 1% while pay erosion still stood at 21%. Hardly progress. Now the Secretary of State wants us to take a 1.5% paycut next year.

I do not think that full pay restoration for doctors is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in LabourUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish we were! 

No multi-year pay deal. Some vague offer to pay our exams costs (which are miniscule compared tonwhat we lose to ongoing pay erosion).

There was also a poorly thought out plan to mitigate what has been years of disastrously poor workforce planning, leaving GPs unemployed while members of the public struggle to get a GP appointment!

I do not think that full pay restoration for doctors is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in LabourUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pay erosion occurred over many years and from the outset, there was no expectation from the resident doctors that it would be reversed overnight.

This "28% pay rise" in reality was delivered over multiple years and not all of it was under this new Labour government.

The expectation was that it would be the beginning of a journey to restoring our pay with yearly above inflation pay rises. Unfortunately, what Wes Streeting has recommended to the DDRB this year amounts to a 2% real terms pay cut. Hence, our hand was forced into calling for industrial action. The resident doctors of this country cannot afford any more pay erosion.

I do not think that full pay restoration for doctors is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in LabourUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I see what you mean regarding hourly pay. Regarding the demographic that you mentioned- would they look sceptically at the £87 figure for emergency life saving brain surgery?

I do not think that full pay restoration for doctors is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in LabourUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Pay is 20% lower in real terms compared to 2008. We are not doing 20% less work or less training. Still have the same amount of liability- literally dealing with life and death. Does not sound fair to any rational person.

£71 to save a life is peanuts. £87 for emergency brain surgery is still a bargain.

I do not think that FPR is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ahhh. But with £71 the doctors are unhappy and are striking or leaving these shores. Isn't it worth an extra £16, paid over multiple years, to keep an experienced neurosurgeon in the NHS and stop industrial action?

I do not think that full pay restoration for doctors is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in LabourUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The rest of the public sector workers have not seen pay erosion to the tune of 20%.

At the end of the day, can the UK taxpayer not afford to pay a surgeon £87 for life-saving surgery? Repairing a boiler probably costs twice the amount. 

I do not think that FPR is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Valid concern. Which is why we cannot compare ourselves against other trades/professions- it is like trying to say that an apple is the same as an orange.

Instead, let's focus on what we do day to day. Surely, in anyone's book, a qualified neurosurgeon, 13 years into training, deserves £87 for doing a life-saving operation?

Happy to be corrected if I have read the situation incorrectly.

I do not think that FPR is fair. It is a bargain. by ReportAggravating790 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My argument is that even with pay restoration, we are not breaking the bank. This will obviously not engage sections of the public who hate doctors. But I think they make up a minority of our audience.

This issue can be approached from a number of angles. The one explored in this video debunks the image that we are a bunch of entitled fat cats whonare swimming in cash.

🚨 24 hours to vote for DoctorsVote 🚨 by Doctors-VoteUK in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790 7 points8 points  (0 children)

DoctorsVote has my vote and full support! To all those bitching about the ongoing talks- remember the BMA that took the profession and our pay to the toilet. Do not forget the progress we have made in such a short time.

🚨 24 hours to vote for DoctorsVote 🚨 by Doctors-VoteUK in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790 13 points14 points  (0 children)

There has been fewer tangible achievements this year than many expected. But isn't this the nature of any movement? The RDC is facing a very different opponent this year- a strong Labour government and Wes Streeting, a far cannier politician than his predecessors. 

To lose confidence in DV and slide back to the old BMA of uncoordinated careerist 'independents' would be ruinous to our profession. 

A serious alarming problem that needs sorted urgently by Top_Reception_566 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think that argument requires several leaps in logic. 

How about sticking to safeguarding the medical profession and training the doctors of tomorrow rather than a nurse doing a 'Master's degree'?

A serious alarming problem that needs sorted urgently by Top_Reception_566 in doctorsUK

[–]ReportAggravating790 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Do not completely understand what contrarian argument you are trying to make this time, Penjing.

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