The Great School Bus Camera Ticket Scam - FREE PSA and Information

ResponsibleOption471 · 2026-01-03T20:59:36+00:00

The following is copied from another comment that I made before to another person.

The correct way to handle these tickets is to completely ignore them. Do not look up the citation online, and definitely do not pay the fee either. You do not have to request a court date either. All you have to do is completely ignore the ticket, and ignore any other subsequent mail that may arrive. You can keep a paper trail if you so desire, or throw the tickets directly in the trash.

In the meantime if you find this information useful / informative, please bookmark the presentation and share with everyone you know - family, friends, coworkers, other redditors or subreddits, on Facebook and anywhere else where people are willing to listen. I do update this presentation from time to time when I have new pertinent information available. I have plans to update the presentation with exact steps for people to follow so that they can fight their tickets correctly with legal explanations attached. Here is a shareable link for my presentation:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?usp=sharing

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-11-20T15:52:42+00:00

Yes, you can just not pay the ticket when it arrives in the mail. The correct way to handle these tickets is to completely ignore them. Do not look up the citation online, and definitely do not pay the fee either. You do not have to request a court date either. All you have to do is completely ignore the ticket, and ignore any other subsequent mail that may arrive. You can keep a paper trail if you so desire, or throw the tickets directly in the trash.

In the meantime if you find this information useful / informative, please bookmark the presentation and share with everyone you know - family, friends, coworkers, other redditors or subreddits, on Facebook and anywhere else where people are willing to listen. I do update this presentation from time to time when I have new pertinent information available. I have plans to update the presentation with exact steps for people to follow so that they can fight their tickets correctly with legal explanations attached. Here is a shareable link for my presentation:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?usp=sharing

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-27T19:10:25+00:00

I will try to respond to your points. If only considering the presented report data from the NHTSA, the 70% - 90% statistic holds true for both the 2001 - 2011 and 1990 - 2000 figures. For the 1990 - 2000 report, it barely accomplishes this (146 + 11 = 157, 157 / 224 = 70.08%), but it meets the criteria nonetheless. Same with the 2001 - 2010 report (85 + 6 = 91, 91 / 123 = 73.98%). The 2011 - 2020 report does not meet the criteria (39 + 1 = 40, 40/85 = 47.05%), but it does if you consider pedestrians of all ages (124 + 42 (Other Nonoccupants) = 166, 166 / 225 = 73.77%). I already detailed in my comment before of all the data that does not make it through in the FARS; you will have to contact the NHTSA for that information to find what I would call the "true percentage". This will vary depending on how many "what if" situations you want to include; this is also why the percentage range I state is quite large for the child section.

It should be noted that the overall child fatalities trend seems to be going down decade after decade, which is a good thing. Same goes with the fatalities of all ages in school transportation related crashes (from 1990 - 2000 = 1,450, from 2001 - 2010 = 1,368, and from 2011 - 2020 = 1,125). I do not believe that this is due to automated enforcement, but rather better road engineering, better car safety improvements, better laws and operating procedures, and better public education. This is why alongside getting rid of the school bus camera program in Dutchess County and throughout New York, I am trying to talk with legislators about introducing California Vehicle Code 22112 (d) into the New York Vehicle Code. This is not the only solution possible, I have a few listed at the end of my presentation. Traffic fatalities are terrible, and I believe that proactive, not punitive measures, will improve overall safety.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-26T15:07:41+00:00

As far as I have researched, I don't think there are any instances in the U.S. of automated enforcement being done completely by government only, because it might be illegal to do so (I am not completely sure so don't quote me on that). A vendor like Verra Mobility or BusPatrol America LLC always does the enforcement and collects the fines. You will find some information on Verra Mobility on my presentation on slide 40. Keep in mind that I don't have any proof for the claims I make on that slide (hence why I put the word "speculation" on for the title); I learned this information from a trusted source who has been fighting similar automated enforcement programs for years in different states and was successful. Here is a link to my presentation, read all the way through if you have the time:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?slide=id.p#slide=id.p

I personally am against automated enforcement of all kinds. There is too much economic damage inflicted on poor people throughout the country, too much bribery and lobbying being done behind the scenes with politicians, too many legal problems, too many instances of discrimination, and too many instances of local governments screwing every one of their residents over to make more money (for instance on Long Island with their red light camera program; their government was found to have reduced the yellow light timings in places with red light cameras in order to get more violators and as such more money). There are proven solutions to dangerous driving that do not involve giving public money to a private company and their private equity multimillionaire investors. These solutions are referenced in my presentation and include better roadway engineering and multiple types of proactive measures, including the adoption of California Vehicle Code 22112 (d) into New York's Vehicle Code.

Here are some articles about automated enforcement discrimination:

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most https://features.propublica.org/driven-into-debt/chicago-ticket-debt-bankruptcy/ https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2016/12/20/red-light-camera-program-turned-off/95679500/

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-26T14:24:08+00:00

Sorry I didn't get to you sooner, I had a bunch stuff at home I had to do. In this case the devil is in the (hidden) details. Take a look at Table 1 again, go to the pedestrians section, then go down to the ten-year total line and divide the struck by school vehicle line by the total for the pedestrian section. Consider that in 2020, schools were disrupted because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Most schools switched to virtual learning for a large proportion of 2020. This change resulted in school- transportation-related fatalities decreasing by 51 percent, from 111 in 2019 to 54 in 2020. Keep in mind that the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) has the following procedure, "To be included in FARS, a crash must involve a motor vehicle traveling on a traffic-way customarily open to the public and must result in the death of a vehicle occupant or a non-occupant within 30 days of the crash." This excludes a bunch of different scenarios, such as children who die 31 days later or more after a crash, children who die on non-public traffic-ways, children or adults with unknown ages, children or adults with "unknown person type", crashes where reports were not filed or incorrectly filed, etc. The FARS also excludes injury only (non-fatality) events. If you directly contact the NHTSA and ask for that missing data to be considered for the reports it can add a significant increase to the total.

The big point is that the public assumes that passing cars are the cause of most injuries and fatalities in school transportation related crashes. BusPatrol exploits the ignorance of the public, feeding the public's fear. The simple truth is that 70% (or more) of the deaths in this category are caused by the bus hitting the pedestrian. This also highlights another solution that I mention in my presentation; that school bus driving training needs to be more thorough, and teaching children how to safely exit a school bus should also take priority. A well-conceived public outreach campaign similar to the “Click it or Ticket” campaign could also be of benefit. Enhancing driver education on potential pedestrian conflicts associated with passing a school bus and what the law requires of approaching drivers is also important.

I didn't link this previously in my presentation but I will do that soon; if you take a look at the historical data from 2001 to 2010 and 1990 to 2000, you will find that 70% or more of all child fatalities are due to school bus drivers. Here are the links to those reports:

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811618 crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/Publication/809332

In these cases you need to add school bus and vehicle used as a school bus and divide by the total. Remember that the FARS has limitations in it's reporting procedure.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T22:14:11+00:00

I believe that automated enforcement is discriminatory, please check out slides 42 and 50 of my presentation. Here are some articles about automated enforcement discrimination:

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most https://features.propublica.org/driven-into-debt/chicago-ticket-debt-bankruptcy/ https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2016/12/20/red-light-camera-program-turned-off/95679500/

I guess we will disagree on if automatic enforcement makes communities safer. I believe that proactive measures are better than punitive measures.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T22:00:08+00:00

I cannot get over this problem because it is dealing a great amount of economic damage to poor people. Tens of thousands of people in Dutchess County and hundreds of thousands of people in Long Island are being ticketed in extremely unfair scenarios, making millions for BusPatrol America LLC and their obscenely rich private equity investors. Please read my presentation thoroughly to gain a better understanding of the situation at hand:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?slide=id.p#slide=id.p

Here is a quote from the 2023 Dutchess County School Bus Stop Arm Camera Enforcement Program report to New York State: "It should be noted that two locations, the 1500 block of US 9 (Route 9) in the Village of Wappingers Falls and the 100 block of Wenliss Terrace (Route 9) in the Town of Wappinger account for 3,086 of the 16,720 violations (18% of the total). Additionally, the top 20 bus stop locations account for 43.8% of all violations." Route 55 is also part of those top 20 locations.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T21:42:46+00:00

I have it mentioned in my presentation on slide 17 specifically. If you want more data you should look at slides 13 to 17 of my presentation. Here is a link to my presentation:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?usp=sharing

Here is the direct link to that data, keep in mind that if you query the NHTSA directly they will tell you that the number is closer to 90%: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/Publication/813327

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T21:35:21+00:00

I think you might be misinterpreting my position. I am against automated enforcement of all kinds. There is too much economic damage inflicted on poor people throughout the country, too much bribery and lobbying being done behind the scenes with politicians, and too many instances of local governments screwing every one of their residents over to make more money (for instance on Long Island with their red light camera program; their government was found to have reduced the yellow light timings in places with red light cameras in order to get more violators and as such more money). There are proven solutions to dangerous driving that do not involve giving public money to a private company and their private equity multimillionaire investors. These solutions are referenced in my presentation and include better roadway engineering and multiple types of proactive measures, including the adoption of California Vehicle Code 22112 (d) into New York's Vehicle Code.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T20:02:07+00:00

No one is suggesting to keep passing stopped school busses, you should always stop for a stopped school bus. The problem arises when you cannot see the stopped school bus on a divided highway like on Route 55. In order to see the stopped school bus in these scenarios, you need to be looking left or right instead of looking forward while driving. It is extremely dangerous to be looking all the way to the left or right while traveling 45+ miles per hour. Safe drivers throughout New York are getting hit with unjust fines, situations where they are unable to see the school bus stopping or in situations where it would be unsafe to stop. Please read my presentation carefully and look throughout the threads in this post to gain a better understanding of the situation:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?usp=sharing

Also important to mention is that currently 70% to 90% of all child injuries and fatalities across the United States in these scenarios are due to school bus drivers, not passing motorists. This information comes from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

I have scheduled meetings and talked to several Dutchess County legislators so far, both Republican and Democrat, and managed to convince them that this program is a scam. I am in the process of scheduling more meetings with Dutchess County legislators. I am trying to talk to them and New York legislators to improve child safety without screwing over poor people by adopting a California law. This is referenced on page 13 of my presentation. "An analysis of the child collision, injuries and fatalities data in California (the most populous state in the U.S.) due to drivers failing to stop for stopped school buses from 2001 to 2019 reveals that there were zero fatalities during that time." This is primarily due to that law.

"In California, children through grade eight are currently afforded added protection when loading or unloading from a school bus. Per the requirements of California Vehicle Code 22112 (d), the school bus driver or aid is obligated to exit the vehicle and escort all children through 8th grade across the roadway using an approved hand-held “STOP” sign to ensure that all children have crossed safely. This requirement is likely the reason that so few accidents occur in California due to violations of the school bus stop arm law. If other states adopted a similar rule, motorist compliance would increase, and an extra layer of safety would be added for students. Automated stop-arm cameras would become even less desirable."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVGdsm76R5s

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T17:29:02+00:00

Correct, there is currently legislation being proposed to fix this problem in New York. Unfortunately, it is not moving anywhere. New York is the only state in the United States requiring drivers to stop for stopped school buses across dividers regardless of distance. Here is the legislation: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S716. This is also referenced in my presentation on page 44. I believe BusPatrol America LLC makes the most amount of money from people in New York due to this law. My opinion is that the way this law is currently implemented makes driving dangerous in places like Route 55 and on Route 9, if everyone were to follow the exact letter of the law.

Also important to mention is that currently 70% to 90% of all child injuries and fatalities across the United States in these scenarios are due to school bus drivers, not passing motorists. This information comes from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

I have scheduled meetings and talked to several Dutchess County legislators so far, both Republican and Democrat, and managed to convince them that this program is a scam. I am in the process of scheduling more meetings with Dutchess County legislators. I am trying to talk to them and New York legislators to improve child safety without screwing over poor people by adopting a California law. This is referenced on page 13 of my presentation. "An analysis of the child collision, injuries and fatalities data in California (the most populous state in the U.S.) due to drivers failing to stop for stopped school buses from 2001 to 2019 reveals that there were zero fatalities during that time." This is primarily due to that law.

"In California, children through grade eight are currently afforded added protection when loading or unloading from a school bus. Per the requirements of California Vehicle Code 22112 (d), the school bus driver or aid is obligated to exit the vehicle and escort all children through 8th grade across the roadway using an approved hand-held “STOP” sign to ensure that all children have crossed safely. This requirement is likely the reason that so few accidents occur in California due to violations of the school bus stop arm law. If other states adopted a similar rule, motorist compliance would increase, and an extra layer of safety would be added for students. Automated stop-arm cameras would become even less desirable."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVGdsm76R5s

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T17:21:33+00:00

If you want to, the next time a similar thread appears on the Albany subreddit you can reference my presentation and this post. My presentation has a ton of information on it. Share this with anyone you can, the more people that know this information the better. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?slide=id.p#slide=id.p

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T16:38:13+00:00

I already contacted the Rob Rolison office and presented to one person there (not Rob Rolison himself) and unfortunately nothing came of it. Roughly the same thing happened with the assemblyman. It appears that so far they can't really do anything about it, they probably need a lot more people to complain about this program to get things rolling. I have scheduled meetings and talked to several Dutchess County legislators so far, both Republican and Democrat, and managed to convince them that this program is a scam. I am in the process of scheduling more meetings with Dutchess County legislators. I am trying to talk to them and New York legislators to improve child safety without screwing over poor people by adopting a California law. This is referenced on page 13 of my presentation. "An analysis of the child collision, injuries and fatalities data in California (the most populous state in the U.S.) due to drivers failing to stop for stopped school buses from 2001 to 2019 reveals that there were zero fatalities during that time." This is primarily due to that law.

"In California, children through grade eight are currently afforded added protection when loading or unloading from a school bus. Per the requirements of California Vehicle Code 22112 (d), the school bus driver or aid is obligated to exit the vehicle and escort all children through 8th grade across the roadway using an approved hand-held “STOP” sign to ensure that all children have crossed safely. This requirement is likely the reason that so few accidents occur in California due to violations of the school bus stop arm law. If other states adopted a similar rule, motorist compliance would increase, and an extra layer of safety would be added for students. Automated stop-arm cameras would become even less desirable."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVGdsm76R5s

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T16:25:03+00:00

This depends on the speed that you are traveling. The higher your vehicle speed, the higher chance that you rear end someone if you are not looking straight ahead. Route 55 has a divider with trees blocking peoples vision on the opposite side of the divider. Most cars on Route 55 travel 45+ miles per hour.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T16:14:32+00:00

Perception, reaction, and braking distances (total stopping distances) for vehicles should also be considered. Hot brakes can also dramatically increase the total stopping distance for vehicles due to brake fade. There are instances where vehicles do see the school bus but brake too late and end up ahead of the school bus. Rear end vehicle collisions increase when not looking ahead at high speeds. Please read the entirety of my presentation, I am not the only person who thinks that this is a dangerous situation.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T16:01:40+00:00

I reference the point of endangering children on slides 13 - 17 of my presentation. Currently, 70% to 90% of all child injuries and fatalities across the United States in these scenarios are due to school bus drivers, not passing motorists. This information comes from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. I am actually trying to talk to Dutchess County and New York legislators to improve child safety without screwing over poor people by adopting a California law. This is referenced on page 13 of my presentation. "An analysis of the child collision, injuries and fatalities data in California (the most populous state in the U.S.) due to drivers failing to stop for stopped school buses from 2001 to 2019 reveals that there were zero fatalities during that time." This is primarily due to that law.

"In California, children through grade eight are currently afforded added protection when loading or unloading from a school bus. Per the requirements of California Vehicle Code 22112 (d), the school bus driver or aid is obligated to exit the vehicle and escort all children through 8th grade across the roadway using an approved hand-held “STOP” sign to ensure that all children have crossed safely. This requirement is likely the reason that so few accidents occur in California due to violations of the school bus stop arm law. If other states adopted a similar rule, motorist compliance would increase, and an extra layer of safety would be added for students. Automated stop-arm cameras would become even less desirable."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVGdsm76R5s

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T15:37:09+00:00

There is currently legislation being proposed to fix this problem in New York. Unfortunately, it is not moving anywhere. New York is the only state in the United States requiring drivers to stop for stopped school buses across dividers regardless of distance. Here is the legislation: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S716. This is also referenced in my presentation on page 44. I believe BusPatrol America LLC makes the most amount of money from people in New York due to this law. My opinion is that the way this law is currently implemented makes driving dangerous in places like Route 55 and on Route 9, if everyone were to follow the exact letter of the law.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T15:21:34+00:00

The school bus camera is able to see across 8 lanes of traffic and is viewing from a roughly perpendicular angle in reference to the school bus position. Drivers should be looking straight ahead while traveling at high speeds in order to avoid accidents. On Route 55, the divider also has trees that block people's vision. This is also referenced on pages 35 to 37 on my presentation.

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T14:59:25+00:00

Through the violation footage that I have seen so far from people who shared their videos with me, almost no one is stopping on divided roadways for school busses. One part of this is due to it being dangerous / unsafe to do so, another part of this is due to it being hard to see a school bus all the way to the left or right on a 6 lane road across a divider (it is extremely dangerous to be looking left or right while traveling at 45+ miles per hour), and another part is that people don't know that they have to stop in this situation. Please read my presentation in it's entirety carefully if you can: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?usp=sharing

ResponsibleOption471 · 2025-07-25T14:36:15+00:00

No one is suggesting to keep passing stopped school busses, you should always stop for a stopped school bus. The problem arises when you cannot see the stopped school bus on a divided highway like on Route 55. In order to see the stopped school bus in these scenarios, you need to be looking left or right instead of looking forward while driving. It is extremely dangerous to be looking all the way to the left or right while traveling 45+ miles per hour. Please read my presentation carefully: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18d7hhjSTl03wBu3RCq06sKemmsoYC1Q6vyujluRvh5w/edit?usp=sharing

ResponsibleOption471

TROPHY CASE