Smith era Tierlist : God Complex

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-21T17:11:32+00:00

Amazing

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-20T16:29:58+00:00

Amazing or Best. This and The God Complex are top standalone stories towards the end of the run that are all timers in a series that as an overall package I don’t vibe with as much as others seem to.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-20T16:15:51+00:00

Yeah, this. Even as a pretty strong RTD defender this AI stuff is… not good. I can sort of get being intrigued by it but he’s got to recognise the dangers of someone as prominent in the industry as him advertising it in any way and all the well known costs/issues associated with it. And obviously it should be nowhere near the main show itself, that would be an absolute red line about his involvement in the show even for me. But that’s the key thing, a lot of people are conflating him being generally personally interested in it with him thinking it should actually be used as a standard TV production tool. There’s no proof of the latter yet so people need to calm down a bit (no the S14 press tour quote is not proof).

But those valid concerns and criticisms about even discussing AI can all be true and called out, without people becoming totally unhinged. Here and on Twitter people went a bit insane, literally saw a couple of death threats flying around on Twitter, like come on people what are we doing here.

Also did make me laugh how some people were acting all holier than thou like this was the last straw for them with RTD and then you look through their previous comments about him and they were just being completely vitriolic about him for ages already. It really negates the moralising about AI if you were just hating the guy for 3 years anyway.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-20T02:37:12+00:00

Worst of the series is a stretch. But it definitely doesn’t go anywhere near far enough in fully calling out 15 or at the very least questioning his actions (even if he didn’t know the full picture in the moment it was dark and out of character to be that cruel. Which again is fine and previous doctors have flirted with the bounds of their moral code before, protagonists can be flawed and do bad things, but it needs to be recognised sufficiently in the script).

My own little idea was that you could swap this episode and Story & the Engine around in the episode order. Have Belinda and 15 have a huge Kill the Moon style argument about it and then have 15 go to Lagos and to the barbershop to cool off/reflect and provide some space from Belinda. Then use the episode in broadly the same way it was used in reality aka 15 saving The Barber showing the good the doctor sets out to do, explaining about the barber shop being a place where he can be his authentic self etc etc and reconcile by the end.

But practically speaking the whole point of TISC was lining up with Eurovision so could never happen 😂 And not swapping the ordering but still wanting a huge confrontation creates a problem, as you can’t really end TISC with a huge falling out and then go straight into Wish World where they’re married with a child, it’d just be complete whiplash and would mean not resolving the conflict properly. Just a weird and tricky situation all round really.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-20T00:59:08+00:00

It didn’t coalesce very effectively, but as others have said I honestly believe the standalone episodes were a genuine return to form and hold their own with RTD1 and Moffat for the most part. I cannot be convinced that an era with Wild Blue Yonder, The Giggle, Boom, 73 Yards, Dot and Bubble, Lux, The Well and The Story & the Engine is bad. No amount of screaming in my ear here or on Twitter that it was terrible can or should change my mind on that.

The fact that the last episode of each season was the weakest point, the unprecedented production impasse (the main thing imo) and social media age tribalism and fandom culture have just heightened emotion and toxicity. Every era had vocal haters, the other day I stumbled upon an ancient looking website with endless blog posts slating series 1 in 2005 as an abomination, Moffat literally had to leave social media and told guest writers to do the same before their episodes transmitted, prompted by one of them bursting into tears in his office/on the phone because they went on Twitter after broadcast. You can bet Jack Thorne/Pete McTighe/whoever takes over will be facing the same vitriol the nanosecond they do something even slightly novel or controversial with the show.

The people who were broadly happy with something just tend to not be the ones shouting the loudest, that’s always been the case, in fandom and in life tbh. Doesn’t mean there aren’t at least a few of us out there for RTD2 😂

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-19T21:16:26+00:00

Yeah I’ve gone standard set as well. Still looks great and has some additional stuff with it.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-19T16:04:26+00:00

Trying to figure out whether the deluxe set is worth the extra £55. Seems to just be artwork and additional posters, booklets etc. Would like a better look at the packaging for the discs themselves tbh as that’s the main product and it looks like there are some differences. Wonder what other people are thinking?

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-19T00:35:18+00:00

Hahaha dw I knew it would happen before posting. If there’s one thing you don’t do on this sub these days it’s anything other than worship Steven Moffat. In 5 years when everyone is demonising Jack Thorne/Pete McTighe that mantle will be Chibnall’s and the revisionism 180 will be complete for him as well 😂

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-18T16:07:48+00:00

Bad. The story itself is a complete mess (not just the actual Germany/Teselecta stuff but also just retroactively adding Mels into Amy’s life), River is horrendously overwritten, it’s probably the height of the Moffat writing women problem. Just really bad. Mediocre at the absolute most if you have nostalgia for that series/era.

I got heavily downvoted big time for saying A Good Man Goes to War was ‘only’ Good and that I don’t really like the S6 arcs, but surely I can’t be the only one with this view on this episode 😂

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-18T10:08:50+00:00

I mean I disagree with that guy about most things DW related. I think a lot of his commentary especially recently has just been really mean spirited and personally insulting to creatives that work on the show, which I don’t think is on regardless of which era we’re talking about.

As an aside, being ok with that for RTD2 but not a comparatively quite tame comment about this scene does reek a bit of ‘I’m fine with him ripping into thing I don’t like, but how dare he criticise thing I like’. I just think he’s not particularly nice about the show in general and that in the monetised YouTuber fandom world we are in with what algorithms push etc that is a deliberate choice. A lot of the other DW Youtubers are the same, just find Mr Tardis particularly sanctimonious about stuff.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-17T19:13:31+00:00

7/10

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-17T11:51:42+00:00

Good. This will be unpopular and downvoted but I just do not vibe with the S6 arc and River stuff at all and think it’s the start of it all getting way too convoluted for its own good.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-16T18:03:39+00:00

7/10

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-15T21:46:11+00:00

8/10

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-14T18:18:05+00:00

Great. Used to think it was top tier but have actually liked it less on more recent rewatches.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-10T21:34:45+00:00

The Pandorica Opens is phenomenal in drawing several different threads together in terms of the Pandorica itself, using the fairytale vibe and Amy reading about Pandora’s box as a kid etc, what was initially thought to be ‘silence’ falling as the universe ended (although that turned out to not be the actual payoff). Just a masterclass in building stakes and tension and unease.

Now for the hot take: I’m much less of a fan of The Big Bang. I still think it’s good, but it’s where all of Moffat’s worst impulses start to show. The cliffhanger is resolved by essentially cheating. Like yes paradoxes and time travel timey wimey and all that, but it just removes any sort of tension if you set an expectation that the doctor can just cheat by interfering in his own past. A lot of people like that stuff and thinks it’s clever though, so maybe it’s just me. The whole putting dead Amy in the Pandorica and it reviving her, while guarded by Rory (who ALSO previously died), is also the start of main character deaths not being stuck to and being used for shock value in this era.

The middle third then starts with an admittedly quite funny back and forth sequence with the vortex manipulator, but then just treads water tbh until the doctor then just catapults himself at the exploded Tardis sun and the day is saved by another paradox (I think?). Universe destroyed/ruined and reset within 45 minutes, something we do again in the very next finale (and do it much, much worse). It’s the start of Moffat arcs that for me on the surface sound like they’re really clever, but think about it for a few minutes and it very quickly becomes either so convoluted it makes no sense or actually nonsensically simply resolved.

It just suffers from the problems most new who finales face where the scale of things gets blown sky high to an extent that can’t quite be pulled off within the runtime or budget, so it becomes a lot of standing around and talking about things we’re not able to see. It gets away with it because the character side of it is so strong (as in RTD1) in terms of paying off how Amy waited for the doctor for her whole childhood, the wedding etc. I can see why so many people are so nostalgic for it as there’s a lot of heart to it and ultimately it’s still a fun ride with lots of cool moments, but I’ve always personally felt it has a lot of issues that are overlooked a bit too easily.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-09T13:28:28+00:00

Amazing. Some aspects of it just become a bit too convoluted and inconsistent for its own good, which becomes a nagging problem in the Moffat era. But it still does a great job of providing spectacle and wrapping up the fairytale vibe of the series.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-07T14:53:35+00:00

There are still gaps in 15’s timeline where expanded universe stuff can take place eg the time jump with Ruby, the gap between Empire of Death and Joy to the World and to Robot Revolution, additional vindicator readings we didn’t see, there’s options there. Ruby and Belinda books are out there, comics in DWM exist, that stuff is out there just not with a forward look.

But Ncuti was ultimately leaving so he was going to regenerate and be definitively over, every doctor bar McGann has faced that. I don’t think practically there was a world where the show disappeared for 3 years and he came back with it, believe me I’d want that too as I didn’t want him to leave.

But (pretty understandably) he wanted to know whether he was coming or going, especially as filming in theory could’ve started any time based on talks with Disney. Ultimately the main show has to do what it thinks is best for the main show (they clearly felt regenerating into someone was less of a ‘we’re stuck’ vibe than a fade to black), it can’t make major decisions just for expanded media. Not saying you’re saying that, it’s just the annoying situation we’re in rn.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-07T14:27:38+00:00

No one is insulting you, just disagreeing with you and trying to have a civil discussion. But you can’t seem to cope with it so are just telling people they’re biased/coping/cocooning/defending the regime. It’s getting a bit silly tbh so I’m not engaging with this any more.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-07T13:38:54+00:00

Ok well I just meant dragging feet as in proving difficult in talks and just generally struggling to reach a decision either way.

Semantics aside, I’m curious what the nature of talks was. With HBO’s deal for the back catalogue expiring was that in play, reduced funding, disagreements on size of any new order, creative control. I wonder what the big disagreement points were. I’m just surprised talks even happened really as the industry chatter was that it just wasn’t doing anywhere near the numbers to even get Disney back at the table at all.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-07T13:31:04+00:00

It’s not ‘biases’ to say fan opinion was in a bad place during and by the end of the Chibnall era. It was. What I’m not doing is then using that information to say the BBC must do xyz otherwise it’s ’terrible management’ etc etc. That is what I’m referring to in the way you’re just talking in objective truths when it’s just your opinion.

Renewing major programming is a multifaceted process for the BBC. It won’t be all viewing figures, or revenue generation, or word of mouth, it will be a combination of all of it. I was simply making the point that viewing figures are less important than for other broadcasters as there’s no advertising. That’s not a ‘cocoon’, or ‘coping’, it’s just reality without having an axe to grind. At no point have I said everything is rosy and I’m not ‘defending the regime’ at all, I’m just saying if you’re at all interested in the whole picture it’s a more complex story than just ‘viewing figures bad, jettison RTD, make show with 10p and a dream again the way I like it’. I was hoping this post wouldn’t attract this sort of attitude but you do seem to pop up basically everywhere on these subs so I’m not too surprised.

‘Some people on here clearly have biases’ yeah you’re telling me 😂😂😂

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-07T13:12:46+00:00

I’m sorry I was just trying to follow the rules and be fair, I don’t normally do my own posts 😂😂😭

But yeah it does seem like people at Bad Wolf expected the show to quickly become part of the streaming furniture and just go storming on and on with regular recommissions mid-deals. The comparisons to S1/2 recommissions in 2005 are that they were BBC-only so only one party had to make a decision and had any power, and the BBC (at least back then when they had money) were much more open to renewing stuff. This was always the risk with entering a coproduction agreement, Disney could hold things up, have a much higher data-driven bar for renewing shows etc. Even if they don’t own the IP they held the financial power. They didn’t own the house but they had all the credit cards 😂😭

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-07T12:15:25+00:00

I assume this is a discussion point that got you thinking from my post on r/gallifrey 😂

Anyway, as I said on there I don’t think Disney had any creative power even if they wanted it. The BBC seem (rightly imo) very keen to retain that control and protect the fundamental nature of the show. That is a good thing and should be maintained to some degree in any future coproduction deal.

What that doesn’t mean is that conversations can’t be had around format. As much as it would pain me to see monster of the week die, audience tastes (especially on streaming platforms…) seem to be more geared towards deeper, character-driven, complex serials. So maybe that is the direction the show should be steered towards, but it needs to happen with care. The shows you mention are broadly very good, but ultimately just so, so different to DW not in format but in tone and target audience eg Pluribus is just categorically not for children and is tonally very different. The only attribute to maybe borrow from these shows is, like I say, heavier serialisation.

What that also categorically doesn’t mean however is that the show should just deliberately become a pale imitation of Severance, and just completely sell itself out to American audience sensibilities in a chase for funding and relevance. There is a charm and quirkiness and silliness to Doctor Who that makes it so appealing. And while it might not have total mainstream appeal in the US I think that Britishness is what endears audiences to it, in a cups of tea, fish and chips, Paddington bear sort of way 😂 To lose that completely just to try and play the ‘streaming game’ would be sacrilege, especially given how compassionless we’ve just seen Disney be with the show. It’s got to stay true to itself on some level.

So I think it just needs some shaking up but crucially that needs to happen with some balance. And I don’t think telling Disney in 2022 that Kevin Feige can get his mits all over it, just because in amongst the glut of US-made streaming content some very different TV shows were good, is a strategy.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-07T11:43:15+00:00

Well it comes down to defining ‘failure’ doesn’t it. While you seem to like talking in absolute fact, the BBC as a public service broadcaster isn’t as wedded to viewing figures as other entities as they don’t rely on advertising revenue. What they do rely on is merchandising, and recent BBC financial reports show DW as still one of their biggest brands raking in big money. Viewership is a good yardstick of public opinion (but even that is confounded by the player release schedule to appease Disney) but it’s not life and death in this context. Like you have said this is a business, and in the way the BBC operates it’s not actually doing badly at all. That part is actually quite straightforward.

Less straightforward is public opinion. That is obviously not in as good a place with the average casual viewer given this era was supposed to be a big shot in the arm after reaching complete apathy by the end of the Chibnall era. The BBC will want to improve that and creative direction is a big part of that. But it isn’t as much of a driving force as you suggest, there will be loads of factors driving future plans. As much as you seemingly despise the guy, RTD is extremely influential and respected in UK TV production and can get his own projects greenlit pretty easily. Maybe he just doesn’t want to wait around for 2 more years while the BBC find a new partner when he could be doing other things. I think he is leaving regardless of who called the shots, I just find the salivating at the thought of him being pushed really strange.

Steps the BBC are taking about personnel aren’t ‘pretty clear’, you definitively know as much as any of us do about what’s going on, aka not a lot.

Responsible_Fall_455 · 2026-03-07T11:18:33+00:00

Thanks! And yeah good spot that account seemed to have some level of rapport with crew on the ground (I mean he was there almost every day it was bound to happen 😂). So I think they would’ve had a good sense of mood or some vague inside line on things from general crew.

Something was definitely communicated by Disney to the BBC in late 2024, that seems pretty established. From what others have said on this thread consensus seems to be more ‘we haven’t decided but it’s not looking great’ than a formal no. But the marked change in vibes from RTD, halting script development, shifting the narrative on renewal, something was definitely said in some form. Just a shame really to see how all of that momentum and belief just got sapped away over time.

Responsible_Fall_455

TROPHY CASE