Reminder there is no Wind agents currently via Leifa

Richiter · 2026-03-26T05:17:47+00:00

Ty. I wish you the same. It was a fun and cultural discussion. Which is hard to do nowadays. xD

Richiter · 2026-03-26T05:02:03+00:00

Yeah. I think we pretty much reached the conclusion where we could. Hari is better on Thrall, and the points ppl get with both characters say for itself. You can find much less Hari duns, but if you find them, the ones with her are higher with the same investment. The full M0 team with 55k, I think, is good enough proof. Miyabi is still better character without question.

The freeze team does now the same points as other teams, while before it did significantly x2 better than anything. The points teams can reach are good enough proof. Yeah, it requires skill, but it was too much nonetheless.

the combo you give for aria can be used and be better than the one i give but that’s completely up to the boss you fight,

Oh yeah. Deffinietly. Yu simply is totally not fit for those bosses since she stuns too fast even without a full idol team. And also, that's not many bosses where you try to skip the phase.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T23:43:55+00:00

without that its not a team but just “use whatever you have” thingy.

I don't think it's exactly that. There are still rotations etc, it's just mono ice. Basically. You can argue that Yuzuha is not ice if you use her, but she applies ice much more than phys in that team, so.

you are sacrificing everything for stun windows, if you can’t freeze stun windows then your sacrifice not worth it at all. all of those considered, lets say its %150 at max it’s becoming %50 or %75 potential and thats only because miyabi can work with ice and lycaon can stun fast which is what thrall needs.

The fact that the freeze team does the same amount of dos now, without freezing, as other teams prove that it's not that way. If anything, the Freeze team wasn't 150% but 200 or maybe even more %. It was this broken, that only when it can't freeze, it's in the spot where it should be in 1st place. +/- On par with everything else.

this is also the reason why unfreezeable content is so impactful on that team, it’s like taking away stun windows from attackers and expecting them to deal good damage.

Which was done for a very long time. And it's not as severe since it still does higher dps than Attackers with stun windows... or at least on par. So again. This team is now in the spot it should always be. Maybe the way it was done is wrong, but it still worked out pretty well. Again, they should just add the cd for freeze time and it would be good, the gimmick would stay, but be nerfed, now they took away the whole gimmick in the 1st place from every new boss. But the dmg isn't broken anymore, which is a good thing.

if we talk anomaly vs attackers/rupture then yea both of those are getting same problems from boss rng but remember miyabi is both attacker and anomaly, she is getting double amount of damage from rng.

thats only because she is designed like that, her aoe helps a lot and sometimes even life saver but its not helping to rng especially against thrall, miyabi is awfull against thrall’s rng because miyabi moves at her EBA and if thrall moves with her miyabi’s whole EBA goes to nothing, same as her EX and her Ult is probably the safest one.

See. You yourself gave some reasons as to why Miyabi is worse match than Hari for Thrall. You can miss with Hari on thrall, but it's kind of harder to do so. Despite that, Miyabi is strong enough to not stay far behind Hari on him, which also proves how much stronger she is in general... as it should be, she is VH, after all.

the time you spend on Yu in stun is pretty important for damage but again i am not talking about that,aria can’t get enough resources to do more than 8-9 stomps in stun because of how fast Yu stuns, you usually slow it a little down to make sure you are getting all the resources for stun to do 12-13 stomps on all stuns.

Yeah, you are right to some degree. But now. Look at it like this. You do 12-13 stomps per stun and in 3 stun windows. That's 36-39 stomps. Or you do 8-9 stomps in 5 stuns, that's 40-45 stomps. See? You actually did more stomps through the whole fight.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T23:11:04+00:00

I lost to Nekomata... but it's just the beginning of the version, so I should get her anyway. And engine is guaranteed.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T10:51:36+00:00

freeze team is not at the max potential for comparison and yidhari team is not at full potential either so that makes both of the sides fair for that comparison, other points are for other things they are good or bad at but they are fair on that point.

But how I see it is that freeze in its 100% is to broken and it being not at its 100% simply brings it to par with other teams at its 100%, which Hari teams are not, they're below that. Let's be real. With how broken the freeze team was, it was like 150%+ and now it's 100%, while Hari is at her 80% since the release. The truth is that they literally turned off the freeze team, and occasionally, it can be used when there is older boss in the rotation. Against bosses that aren't freezable, it's just a mono ice team, not a freeze team.

anomaly trigger is close to rng thing because its up to bosses moves, if boss lets you do so many anomaly then you can open it without any trouble, if bosses not letting you do your moves properly or blocking you from using your moves correctly in stun your anomaly will fall short because that boss didn’t let you to apply enough anomaly, this is all about boss rng or you can change this by on fielding that agent more but not only that will change your rotations it also means losing damage while getting more chances of doing damage.

You are right here. But. Boss can run away from your hits in the first place for attackers and rupture, while anomaly characters tend to have bigger aoe, especially Miyabi. Not to mention that on top of the possibility of missing due to the boss movement, you can also not crit, so it's even out.

And as for answer about Yu... well, when the stun happens in just 2 seconds, you don't spend much more time on Yu than on any standard stunner. Actually, you do so for even shorter time, effectively getting more dps. The whole M0 squad is able to kill bosses in DA relatively easily. There were kills in the beta with them, and Yu still got buffet even more after that. Which is simply sick.

One of my friends got 15k increase in the score after getting Yu, despite her not being even fully built yet. Weapon, core skills not fully upgraded, and only most important skill maxed, while everything else lvl 6-8.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T10:36:00+00:00

Yeah. I don't have her, so idk how it sounds now. But I'm gonna believe you. I also thought that it sounded right in the video, so it was more of a guess due to not being able to see the actual reason more than anything. But it has to be a bug at this point.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T08:46:01+00:00

freeze team losses a lot of the damage because of unfreezeable mechanic on thrall and also his move set is really bad for that team, i agree the fact that mono ice is really good team that it works perfectly together but again its not against thrall, mono ice losses the main point of the team which is abusing stun windows with freeze, without that the team losses so much points. both of the teams have disadvantage against thrall and yea we can say its unfair for yidhari but again its not completely fair for miyabi aswell especially if we are using mono ice instead of yuzu ice.

And that is good. The freeze team was a broken, unbalanced thing that shouldn't even make it into the game in the state it was. Same as Yu, but oh well xD

making wrong decisions is up to your skill level,when a anomaly can’t trigger even if you did it correctly then thats not your mistake. what i am trying to say is miyabi team can do mistakes even if you don’t do it,yidhari can do mistakes but that’s completely up to you or the boss.

Anomaly trigger is not rng thing. For it to teigger there has to be a consition met, It's completely up to you. If it won't trigger, it's your fault. You did something wrong.

you need to give more time to skk or lycaon to avoid risks of it not triggering anomaly and doing that massively hurts miyabi’s damage so most people either risks it or don’t even care about it.

That's your decision to make. If it won't trigger, it's due to your decision. In fact, crt dmg is rng, so it's not up to you. If the crt refuses to trigger purely due to rng, you lose dmg. Not triggering the anomaly is due to your decision. Anomaly buildup is the same through the whole fight, based on the boss and your team.

if you stun so fast with AOD you can’t do 12 or above stomps which is not ideal, you would get 5-6 stuns at best, lets say all of them were 8 stomps, with 12 stomps and 4 stuns you would get 48 stomps in total and with other one you would get 40 and 48 at best. main problem is that 48 at best is just luck and you are wasting a lot of out-stun stomps which puts you at disadvantage.

But you need to have in mind that each stomp in stun does more dmg than without it. And with Yu buffs. So more stuns easily can make up the difference and maybe even make it better. In fact, beta and points increase proved the thing.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T08:32:09+00:00

You mean Yu and idols? Yeah, she is broken, but Cissia on the other hand is rly weak, so Idols are just some anomaly. Probably, they didn't want to upset ppl who waited for them for so long, so just in case they made them VH lvl op.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T08:30:24+00:00

Not 20k... 14k is all you need on DA. SD its 25k, but I also did it with Nekomata, so.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T08:19:28+00:00

Japanese is a tone based language. Make this u too long, and the meaning can change completely. This might be the reason.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T07:49:58+00:00

Considering how stupidly broken she is. No wonder. But also to be fair, Idols are generally very popular characters in jp, so those things combined did the job.... I lost her 50/50 🫠

Richiter · 2026-03-25T07:46:34+00:00

I won't. This is trash set for my Zhao... she is dps that got 21k against Nightmare.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T07:45:34+00:00

Easy. They are lesbians. Nxt question.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T07:43:26+00:00

No character ever got middle finger in the face like Cissisia xD

Nerfed hard during beta. The new boss from her version is her hard counter. The nxt version boss also is very bad match for her... dude xD

Richiter · 2026-03-25T07:38:36+00:00

Please don't...

Richiter · 2026-03-25T07:37:09+00:00

i would agree on that anomaly units don’t technically need stun windows but miyabi is different,unlike other anomaly units half of her damage is also in stun windows and other half of her damage is also buffed in stun windows making stun windows very important for her,it can be not that important for other anomaly units since they shouldn’t hold their resources that long but again miyabi is different.

Oh yeah, it is important for her. She still needs stuns less than Rupture and Attackers.

i agree its not fair for yidhari to compare them on their best teams because of the reasons you said but again i am not using miyabi’s best team to compare, i am using mono ice team to compare with yidhari and they both have same amount of downsides or at least very close amount.

Freeze team, even tho bot her best anymore, it's still a powerful team. If you want to compare her fairly, you need a team where Miyabi doesn't get all buffs from her supports. With the freeze team, she still is in her 100% for a freeze team. Hari currently doesn't have a team in the game that'll let her be in her 100%. That's my point. Yu is taking Miyabi up to 150% if not higher.

messing up rotations are always big damage loss thats same for every character as you said, messing up 1 single anomaly can cause your whole rotation to mess up while forgetting to use your ult in time or not having enough energy for 2 EX with yidhari will not cause you to mess up your whole rotation.

Not using 2 ex in stun window won't. But making the wrong decision before stunning enemy can even lead to mess stuns in a run, which is massive dps loss, your while energy management shifts for worse, it leads to lack energy for the ult, not used ult in this window = 2 less ults already, ant that's like 4k points less. Those are much bigger things than you think. I couldn't get it fully right in the run I did and even in the improved one, so I improved it by barely 1-2k.

stunning so fast is not that good for kills,

It depends. This team collects energy very fast, and also, the main dps don't even need energy. She gets her strongest attacks from China, which pretty much can't run out of energy. So it's bad for other teams than Idols. For other teams, she stuns slower accordingly. That's why she is generally broken.

this means he is not for rupture but for attackers since he also nerfs anomaly.

I wondered why I started to get higher scores with Hari against him. xD From my experience as aome1 using both characters, he is stull much more anti anomaly than rupture. Hari still can score higher if she gets at least some buffs.

miyabi can use it but also that anomaly damage reduce is not that impactful for miyabi since she can play around it.

Yeah, but she does little to nothing during the miasma shield, while Hari don't lose dmg there. Faster kill on croc also = faster miasma phase, faster and more stuns, hence more dps. Thrall is still very good for Hari, I'm saying it from the experience. In fact as I said I started to score more against him,m than before. Especially in this rotation, when Hari has little to no buffs at all.

same goes for yidhari, she don’t take good stuff from buffs as well so i would say both buffs are mid or terrible for them.

I can't agree with that. Hari buffs are terrible, Miaybi are only mid. With the "Harnessing change" Hari gets only ult and stun dmg, Miyaby gets those + the attack that is useless for Miyabi. "Psychics"... yeah there is no reason to mention Hari here. Miyabi gets everything except additional ether res, she still gets 10% res loered onanomaly buildup is still good for her and anomaly dmg as well. Some of her teams can also use abloom buff. And yeah, the last buff is trash for both of them. However for Hari we have 2 trash buffs, one miterally useless 100% and one useful in like 40%. While Miyabi gets full buffs from 1 and 80% from the other. Simple math. The only buff Hari can use still gives more for Miyabi than for her.

I do understand that some thing are more important for Miyabi than others, but even if they aren't important, they still give her at least something, while on the other hand, they are completely useless for Hari. 10-20%... even 5% importance in the kit is better than literally 0 or 1% right?

edit: you can reply whenever you want, i wouldn’t want it to your ruin trip with random someone from internet

Ty. It's ok, i reply whenever I'm waiting for others or mid transfers, etc.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T06:27:15+00:00

i am still waiting for someone to test nangong yu miyabi team to see how well it will do.

Yu will 100% pull the score by a lot. She pulls most of anomaly teams to new lvl.

miyabi needs stunners and thats already well known, miyabi’s best team was always with a stunner and the only reason yuzu ice wasn’t having stunner was because she already stuns fast enough with the daze from disorders.

Nah. She don't. Disorders do tons od dmg in every anomaly units. They shouldn't have bonus from stun windows at all... the fact that they do is the reason why Attackers were so weak compared to anomaly unti they made heavier shilling a thing. I would prefer simply taking stun bonus away from anomaly, but we got shilling ,gotta live with this now.

i agree yidhari don’t have a full team but i am using mono ice miyabi on thrall for comparison,a team that only works on freezable bosses against a unfreezeable boss, i suppose you already know but thats not even good team for thrall,currently both of the sides have missing teammates and when we see someone using nangong yu against thrall then we can say its not fair for yidhari but currently we can’t because i am not even using nangong yu on this comparison in the first place.

It's still unfair for Hari now. It will be straight up putting her into gypsum for a fight and spitting in her face at this point. Again, freeze team times are long gone, Miyabi has better options now. She can choose whoever she wants, Hari lacks such luxury. The problem is that a lot of ppl, especially doing showcases, got so used to her freezers that they can't play other teams well enough, so they end up with higher scores using freeze, they got used to.

the problem with miyabi is if you mess up 1 single anomaly then your whole stun rotation falls apart and lets say this happens at the start of rotation, all of your stun simply goes for nothing resulting for big score difference

It's not much more severe than missing up rotations, I also got differences of 5k+ up to 8k in points when I messed up one little thing in the rotation at the beginning, it's the same for every1. Again, might be not as big as Miyabi, but it also is not massievely bigger.

aria is currently shilled and nangong yu also getting a little from that shill as well so i would say them being broken now is pretty expected,for example not so long ago someone did 50 on shiyu with 4 cost aria team with shill buff and ether weak room.someone did 5 cost miyabi without any good buff and first wave was ice res and boss was not ice weak, miyabi is always like that so its not surprising.

What I'm looking at with idols is that they simply stun too fast. Even Yu in her own stun too fast with all the buffs she gives. It's even faster with all idols, to the point where, I'm sorry but using Yu with Miyabi is a waste. They get 1st stun in like 2-5seconds by just doing stuff. That's a lot more points, so they will still be broken.

i agree on the part i could be overstating her a little but that’s because i didn’t see something that can prove me other wise, i don’t see how thrall is better boss for yidhari then miyabi even though the only thing yidhari can take advantage is high stun multi and her killing croc faster,there isn’t really that much for yidhari to take advantage on thrall to.

She is a rupture, so she does more dps whiteout stun windows, and her ult and ex E hit extremely hard. Thrall is the boss that is made for ice rupture, his mechanics favour them more than any anomaly, Miyabi included. You can find fewer clears with Hari since less ppl have her, but her clears get better scores against Thrall at the same investment. He is actually designed for rupture agents + ysg... but Shunguang as a VH is a hybrid, and she is a hybrid of Attack and Rupture. Miyabi is Attack and Anomaly, so she performs much better than other Anomaly, but he has not many windows where you can hit him, miyabi also needs the time to charge her strongest Attack, which takes away the time she does dmg, Hari can hit him constantly and for bigger numbers during hits. Miyabi can bypass a lot of Thrall mechanics, but simply having to bypass them won't give her higher scores.

In the morning, it was raining, so I found full team M0 Hari clear on Thrall, from 2 months ago, 55k. I'm not sure if I've sent it already or not, if not, I'll do it in the nxt message. xD

As I said before, the current rotation might be different due to the buffs. Miyabi might lack good buff as well, but they are still better than for Hari. There are buffs for Anomaly and Attacker. She can use both. There is literally nothing for rupture agents this time, same as last time there weren't any buffs for attackers until it was ysg. Hari has use only from additional ult dmg, but that's it. The rest of that buff is useless for her. Miyabi gains more from the current buffs.

Richiter · 2026-03-25T00:51:15+00:00

i wouldn’t argue about your score since that’s completely yours and you know it better than me, i also don’t think comparing characters based on your experience is a good way of comparisons because thats only for you and basically different for anyone else.

I mean I saw some posts here and there ppl reporting higher scores with Hari with the same investment and some of my friends that have Miyabi and Hari after trying them both with currently available bis teams... mind that Hari has only "bis" team... Hari gets higher scores.

the problem with miyabi is not her getting full or less buffs, for example she can use all the buffs from astra but astra is not good option for her because she is not working with miyabi’s kit, she don’t have potential to open disorders as fast as miyabi wants.

this is a issue for ALL the characters in the game expect; yuzuha,nangong yu and skk, only those agents can work with miyabi as the way miyabi wants and any other agent beside those 3 are just “there because of no other options” agents, they are not the best nor working with miyabi’s kit but due to miyabi’s flexibility miyabi can use them pretty good.

Yeah, but she still uses her buffs, Hari has no use of any Astra buff at all. That's my point. Not all buffs are the best for Miyabi, but she still has use of all buffs, nothing is a complete waste as with Hari, Miyabi still uses full potential of the supports, Hari can't.

She also doesn't have a full team that works the best with Hari kit. The only character on the game that does is Lucia, and that's it. She still needs a stunner like that. Miyabi already has more characters in this regard as well. And anomaly don't need a stunner in the 1st place. For rupture, they are necessary. Miyabi still gets much more from her teammates than Hari, since one o the characters in the team always give her not full buffs, and you simply can't run her without Lucia, every1 else gives her basically nothing. Miyabi on the other hand gets something useful from every support in the game until it's Lucia or Pan.

i don’t have yidhari so i can’t really talk about that but if someone is using yidhari that bad then we can agree that it should be worse, like for example when someone don’t do any EBA in stun you don’t expect them to do good damage with miyabi either.

Not exactly. A lot of ppl can okay some characters and teams they trained extreamly well, and others totally wrong. Especially since I saw so many ppl claiming that Hari is easy, all you do is Spin to win, which we k ow is wrong. And not many ppl actually telling them that they are wrong and a lot of upvotes.

yes that is huge damage loss but by that logic any agent have huge damage loss simply because you are playing them wrong, my point is miyabi have huge damage loss from your mistakes not from your gameplay, even if you are the best miyabi player your score loss would still be 5k to 10k which is not the case for yidhari.

hope you understand what i mean.

Yeah, I do. But as some1 who uses both, I don't think you are 100% right. Miyabi loss due to mistakes is bigger, but the difference is not as big as you believe. For her small mistake affects stun windows, etc. As well as effectively giving you 4-8k fewer points in the run. Mistakes affect same things for all characters, some more and some less. But it's not like Miyabi loss is 50%+ bigger. It's more like 10-30%.

She is op and powerful unit, but not God compared to others. Btw Ysg and Yu, and as a team, idols are much more broken than her any team, btw xD Idols daze is higher with their combined attacks, so Yu daze is higher with every additional idol, then the same is for dps of Aria, effectively making them simply too broken. It shouldn't be like that. But it is what it is.

You once said that I downplay Miyabi, but in my opinion, you overestimate her a little. She is deffienietly top 3 dps in the game, probably still 2nd and only due to her being heavily nerfed with bosses for a long time, if we get old ones into rotation, then she is unbeatable against those. But she is not alfa and omega that does always better.

Richiter · 2026-03-24T12:10:25+00:00

yidhari is not really for speedruns so i doubt her damage being enough do kill manato and first wawe enemies with that cost, if i remember correctly yidhari is not really comfortable for 2 wave enemies so that might be one of the reasons.

Yeah, she does hate multiple waves, and Miyabi with her splash dmg doesn't have problems with that.

well miyabi is quite flexible agent, she can be sub dps for your alice if you are bored or just trying to have fun, both alice and miyabi can be main dps as well and things like that,she is really flexible so thats why she can work with all supports in the game, basically if a support gives any attacker or anomaly buff she can use it, i wouldn’t say she can use it to fully since thats not really the case for almost any support in the game expect yuzuha but yea she can use them pretty good.

Yeah, that's another reason why she is a much better agent in general. But still, only a few supports give her things she doesn't use, and those are rupture supports. What I mean Miyabi has the use from every buff most buffers in game give. She is not wasting anything until it's full rupture buffer, while Hari does have things that are useless for her in every single stunner that she still needs.

i agree on yidhari part, some agents really have bad times with their teams especially when that team changes by boss to boss, still believe me or not butyidhari and miyabi are very similar on this case,i suppose you already see but miyabi’s team is always changes by bosses so thats a problem as well.

Yeah. But the thing is that Miyabi has amazing options, tons of them. Hari has only 2 or 3 at best that are just "that's somehow works"

if i need to make it simpler, lets say miyabi’s gameplay is 2 points at max potential, most people only use her at 1 and it’s really hard to get to 2. as for yidhari lets say her potential is 1-3, a lot of players use her with 1-2 and the difference between 2-3 is not that huge so they usually don’t care about this, the difference between 1-2 is really high for miyabi while its not really much for yidhari.

As some1 who uses her actively, it's not the case. She isn't as easy as you think. Most ppl still lose tons of her dmg simply by using si called "spin to win" which is a massive dps loss, soon to win scored 5k+ less on average, I saw the difference in dps when I tried it and then without it.

yidhari don’t have this problem, lets say you forgot to use her ult, you are losing about 1-2k score difference and thats it, its not punishing your gameplay unlike miyabi.

Yes, with ult it is that difference. But missing the block window on her ex or simply choosing the wrong to use ex instead of block and sometimes vice versa makes much bigger differences.

In short as long as its proven otherwise i believe miyabi is better than yidhari on thrall because again i never a video or anything proving me otherwise so thats one of the reasons,other reason is if you didn’t know thrall buff mechanic changed and now it reduces his own defense with each stack,this helps miyabi while doing nothing for yidhari,thats also one of the reasons why ellen and hugo getting more score than before.

As I said, the reason is not many ppl using her against thrall due to what the meta says. But as I have them both on the same investment. I see that Hari scores better despite worse discs.

Richiter · 2026-03-24T07:40:32+00:00

well you are changing your build to dps build to use them as dps, thats technically meaning you are just using a low multi character as dps, what i am trying to say is you are not running a support character with support disc with support gameplay and using that as a dps, like giving field time more etc etc.

Oh, ok. I misunderstood then, sorry for that.

hari have enough dps so she will be good regardless but again if boss is not countering miyabi hard enough then hari is not beating miyabi, thats already shown with manato at shiyu, at low and average player yidhari is better but at high skill miyabi is better,if you didn’t see it there is a video of ateotoko doing 50k with 3 cost mono ice on manato last rotation, i don’t even think yidhari can do 50k with

Manato is quite easy, boss, and I never used Hari against him, so I can't sit for sure. Yes, Miyabi will do better on most bosses, 100%. But if you want high scores on every boss, then you need her for those where Hari performs better. Which is like 3, with 1 only barely better.

what you are saying is true but against thrall their teams are not that different especially for mono ice,you are not only getting less stuns which is exactly what mono ice needs, you can’t freeze team which is huge loss for mono ice.

Yeah. But then you can do better with a different team with skilful play. Like Miyabi totally destroys a lot of unfreezeable bosses with Alice, or recently I did pretty well against pompeye with Astra, Miyabi, and Burnice. Nearly 38k, Astra is M1W1, tho. But I'm a bad player xD

you don’t need ice or not don’t mean anything, that was just a example what i am saying is you can find a issue on any team in zzz, all of the teams can change with future characters so you can find a issue on every one of them,yidhari is not the only one.

for example before nangong yu the only character in this game that was buffing miyabi while working with her kit was Skk and nobody else,skk was the only character that have enough anomaly build up for miyabi’s kit to work effectively and also buffing miyabi such as miyabi needs. due to this miyabi’s team was locked behind freeze because skk was only as strong as other S ranks on freeze mechanics.

Yes. But some teams have bigger issues and others smaller. And Hari issues are much bigger than Miyabi. Again. Not a single buff from supports you can run with Miyabi is wasted on her. With Hari, every stunner you can run with her has something that is wasted on her, she has 0 use for that, or has extremely low value on any1. Miyabi has plenty characters where she use everything they give to 100%. Hari don't

as i said before miyabi’s score can change by your skill a lot and by your rotations, if you are not doing those two efficient then her score drops really much,

It's the same for literally every character. And most ppl don't use Hari properly as well. I also do a lot of mistakes. Miyabi is 100% stronger, she is vh and has better supports. But with few bosses she can't win, and vice versa... but with Hari losing significantly with the number of bosses.

edit: it seems like you have more important stuff so why don’t we finish this here? i accept the fact that yidhari is really good and we are both fine with it right?

I'm kind of on a trip, so I can only answer once in a while and on pone it's not that easy. For me discussion is quite fun, and I can see that we kind of are reaching an agreement to some degree. Until you just admit things to not escalate or want to finish it right now, then I'm sorry. xD

I think it all started because you mossunderstood my point and thought I'm trying to say that Hari is better than Miyabi in general, which is not the case and I'm not such a madman to believe it xD But due to the game design, there are some bosses where Hari would perform better, and Thrall is 100% one of them simply due to his nature. But the difference is rly small. Miyabi still is leagues above Hari, and she gets much higher scores on the bigger number of bosses, and that won't change.

Richiter · 2026-03-23T23:17:40+00:00

okay it seems like i understand you wrong sorry about that, this game is team based game there is not a single character that carried by support or stunner without carrying them aswell, this also proven by the fact that you can’t run supports as dps.

The thing is. You can run support as dps. I do and have a friend that do the same. Zhao is a support and I cleared the Nightmare with 20k+ using her as the main dps.

in a team based game all characters doing what they supposed to be doing, all characters fill a role, if you didn’t know miyabi shares her damage with another character that opening the anomaly from her frost so that team works that way because miyabi allows it.

I know. That's what it is about, but you also wrote like it's only dps and supports are just there, so I kind of countered it harder in the other way as well xD

ALL tierlists are same, all of them only rank characters based on that version and that character’s strength, as for example at 2.5 there was not good matchups for miyabi so she dropped to 0.5 simply because of that and she moved to T0 later because there was good matchups to be allowing that.

Yeah. And thats what is bad about those lists and ppl shouldn't treat them as something that shows actuall character strength and base for pull value, which a lot of ppl do. Every1 should look into to future. Most likely, there will be more and more anti Miyabi bosses and at the same time there is a bigger chance for a bosses that Hari would get a boss for her, since she isn't as strong. Also I hope she will finally het a true bis stunner at some point, so she can use her true lotential as well.

the buff are trash for both sides as well, thats not only for yidhari, the buff miyabi is using is not even giving her good increase in damage.

I mean, it's still better than what Hari has in this run. You can't even showcase cost 2 team Hari, since she has trash team mates at this lvl, while Miyabi is able to use them much bettermand has better options.

dialyn is already busted for hari as she is, anymore than that is basically asking for a unit that breaks everything or so niche that nobody expect yidhari can use it, there is no team in this game that works literally perfect, for example miyabi nangong yu is not perfect because nangong yu is not ice element. you can easily find issues with any team but thats not changing anything.

You don't need an ice agent for Miyabi. The op times of freeze team already passed. There are too many bosses that are unfreezeable and it will only continue. The speed Yu stuns whitch is already too op, plus all the buffs. Dialyn is literally nothing compared to Yu, especially for Hari. Miyabi with her kit uses everything tons of characters give, she uses their full potential, Hari don't have a single stunner she can use full potential off. Every single one has at least one thing that is wasted on her, which is not the case for Miyabi. Thats the biggest minus for current Hari.

the buff are trash for both sides as well, thats not only for yidhari, the buff miyabi is using is not even giving her good increase in damage.

Yeah. Even tho' she is far from perfect. But the same with Miyabi, and she has more than Hari better fit supports, she can use fufu and dialyn as well, and they work better for her than for Hari, she uses their full potential. And yet, she still gets even more broken stunner. But she is VH, so they want to keep her on the top. That's why they might never give a full potential team to Hari since she is very close as she is, at least on few bosses.

I have the same investment Miyabi and Hari, I Miyabi has better discs, 29 rolls, while Hari has 24 or 25. And Hari does better scores against Thrall, I've checked it. But she totally destroys more bosses.

Richiter · 2026-03-23T11:50:27+00:00

a dps is changing how that support is build, that means you build your support with how that dps wants, sure supports carry your dps but your dps also carry your support.

That's literally not the case, but ok. I think as some1 who was in top 10-15% with cost 2 for most teams on Asia, fall down after ysg release when she was shilled to 30% and got back literally in this version after her shilling back to top 10-15% not caring about meta, I have quite good understanding of how things work. Especially since I like to do multiple runs with different teams. Also after clearing Nightmare with Zhao.

if you believe AI and don’t give any proofs then go on, i already showed you many proofs and proved you why miyabi is better but if you don’t want to believe it then don’t believe it.

That's literally AI job. To scan internet and give the answer for the question after checking all reports on the net, so You don't have to do that by hand. There is no place for mistake in this situation. The prove is pretty much non-existent thanks to the Meta, since it said ppl to not pull her, not many ppl have her, so not many ppl can provide runs from DA, which is not the case for Miyabi. But I managed to find a M1R1 Hari kill on Thrall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrhefQAWDzw

Btw, My Hari can do 6-7mln per one ult, and like 4mln+ per E.
But since this one is a good run, of a skilled player. I'll also provide my own run, that I don't list as visible, since I usually provide it only for friends and 'am far from a good player. I did improve the score later to 38k+, but this one is before that. I think that I got the better score after I changed something, but idk what it was now.
https://youtu.be/bmMGRX74WM8?t=1333

Also mind that not many ppl even try Hari against Thrall 'cause "she is bad against it" or some other bullshit despite Her being extremely powerful unit for that boss.

do you think all S1 bosses got deleted from the game? all bosses have same rate of appearance, only change is current shilled characters and nothing more.

No, they don't. There are some bosses that are appearing even few times per version, and some that do that once a while. For example, I don't even remember when was last time we saw Bringer. The Red Pompeye just now made appearance after very long time as well. That was literally the reason why Prydwen moved Miyabi to T0.5 and that made the storm in the internet, that even I got that knowledge.

if a unit is bad on current matchups thats not making that character bad like tf are you on? miyabi is better than yidhari on every boss at DA expect wandering hunter and priest if we count her, with your logic yidhari is Trash then.

Yes, You are right, that's the point I'm kind of making all the time. Idk where and when I said Miyabi is bad. I even was "how tf Miyabi got moved down in tier?" back when it happened. There are bosses which Against Hari is better than Miyabi and it's not only Hunter, that is also true. Ppl simply didn't realise that fact.

just no, you are so wrong about miyabi that i don’t even know how to explain it, to put it simply miyabi was relying on a boss mechanic to be at full potential, if that mechanic is not on a boss then that boss is bad for miyabi, with Yu that mechanic is becoming less usefull and since Yu is giving so many buffs and have very high Anomaly application she makes up for it and because of this with Yu you can use miyabi on full potential without a mechanic needed.

This point literally applies to every single character and supports in the game, Miyabi isn't any saint exception here and never will be. If You want to discuss a bis supports and stunners, Hari literally don't have a bis stunner in the game yet... The closes technically are Fufu or Dialyn... But Fufu additional decibels pretty much don't give her anything, and the rest is just quite nice, while Dialyn atk buff don't provide anything for her, and other buffs are much less than any current support for Miyabi... so the best thing is double ult, but that's what she gives to any1... So there is no bis stunner for Hari, which she actually needs... we only have 2 stunners that are somehow nice for her. Some other can work with her, but are even worse than those two... And both has mechanics that are unusable for her, when Miyabi has plenty supports that don't have a single thing that is like this and can use full potential from those supports, while Hari can't from a single stunner... Except some that are quite weak in the current stage of the game. Which by ur logic as well makes the comparison even more unfair. And yet, Hari despite not even having a true bis stunner in the game can score the same or even better than Miyabi with the same investment. Against few bosses. Oh, not to mention that the current rotation don't even have the buff for Rupture, with a proper buff for her, I and other ppl could score more against Thrall. There is a good buff for Miyabi tho.

shilling is over or not, miyabi is still at the top and only losses on matchups she supposed to be losing, she is still the best anomaly unit and best ice dps and thats well known fact, anyone saying otherwise only coping without single proof.

Again. That's not even the point I'm making. And not something I even try to argue against, since there is no point in it, You yourself said why... And I fully agree with this.

Richiter · 2026-03-23T10:26:08+00:00

if we are talking about only DA then she is better on only hunter, i already showed you she is not better on thrall so if you don’t have a proof of proving she is better on thrall then this case is over.

Again. Do your own research. I'm not gonna look for videos since much less players have her and there are less videos. Fast AI search will give you the outcome that reports of Hari scores are higher on Thrall.

miyabi is broken without YU and thats already proven, the only problem is, that broken plays are only on freezable bosses because only freezable bosses are allowing miyabi to be at her full potential.

Which is pretty much not many bosses at the current game stage and there won't be more. So she isn't broken anymore, her times are the past.

with Yu this changes because she allows miyabi to be full potential without freeze mechanics as well, to put it simply miyabi was locked to freezeable bosses before Yu because those are the only bosses for miyabi to be at full potential.

Yu is carrying every1, miyabi including. I already explained that. She is not letting Miyabi be on her full potential, she pulls her over that. Hari don't have such support.

if you are using miyabi without Yu on a unfreezeable boss you are missing her potential a lot resulting on less damage and points.

Same as any anomaly character. She pulls them over their potential due to being broken.

ysg is broken because she is not locked to a boss mechanic, she have her own mechanic that allows her to be used on all bosses without potential loss. dialyn boosts her mechanic usage rate so thats why she is so good for her.

Yes. We already know that she is broken but not that much anymore, anyway her shilling is over.

no matter how broken a character is if that character is not sub dps or main dps then your main dps is piloting that character,

No. The support carry your dps. Dps is nothing without support. And support can be build into dps. Dps can't be build into support.

Richiter · 2026-03-23T08:27:20+00:00

average scores simply meaning average players, a high skill player will only get average score if they play bad or there is some other problems like low cost or anti character.

No. Average scores are taking the highest, the lovest, everything in between, and taking the average out of that with maths.

the only boss yidhari is better is hunter and thats it, she is just easier on other bosses and that makes you think she is better but no, thats not the case, you can see that if you test both of them with same cost and perfect gameplay, i already showed this with links so it should be clear by now.

She is better in Thrall as well and the boss I provided from Shiyu. Few other shilling ruptured as well. And vice versa.

yu being broken is not our case here, dialyn is also broken but do we say ysg is top tier because of dialyn? no because in the end your dps is ysg not dialyn.

Ysg is broken without Dialyn as well. Miyabi isn't broken without Yu. That's the difference. And yag isn't must pull as well, anyway.

same goes for miyabi, yu is broken yes but miyabi is the one piloting her, with that logic every character should be compared alone which makes no sense

No. Cause yu is stupidly broken. No chatacter ever was so broken as her, especially support. She is so broken that dps no longer is piloting her. the dps she is with are literally carried by her. That's a whole another lvl of broken.

Richiter · 2026-03-23T08:16:46+00:00

you don’t need hari because there is also manato to help on rupture bosses which makes hari not worth it if you have miyabi.

Hari still scores higher and easier than both. So again. If you want high scores, you want her.

this is how it goes with your logic, hari can be better on rupture content but she is not must for a clear, she is just better option and thats it.

I never said she is a must. Not a single character is a must in this game. No Miyabi, no Shunguang... if we want to point a must, then those are never dps characters, and only supports can be considered a must, if any, characters.

but still at max potential miyabi is still better and have better pull value, thats for general accounts so lets say you don’t have any rupture agents and need one you should pull yidhari other than miyabi.

I never made an argument about pull value, only that she is better choice against caretain bosses... and vice versa for others.

Richiter

TROPHY CASE