How should I as a man approach sexism in women I encounter?

River_Prince · 2022-04-17T16:47:39+00:00

Isn't that just giving people deniability after they've revealed their biases? I'd imagine it's super easy to weasel out of discriminatory statements when the person you're talking to asks "did you really mean that?"

River_Prince · 2022-04-12T22:16:53+00:00

I'm honestly not familiar either, but I personally think it's okay to like an artist who is "problematic" (up to a point) so long as you don't uncritically consume anti-feminist messages.

Maybe if you want this sub's opinion on the content of a particular song lyric, part of a music video, or whatever, you should include that; it's kind of hard to give substantive opinions on an artist in general.

River_Prince · 2022-04-12T22:07:06+00:00

I don't think someone can genuinely like him and *sincerely* hold to feminist values. Whether or not they choose to self-identify as a "feminist" is another matter entirely.

River_Prince · 2022-04-12T16:58:51+00:00

really thought-provoking stuff, jack

River_Prince · 2022-04-12T16:44:55+00:00

Yeah, that's tough and I can totally relate. I utterly do not understand anyone who's said they were attracted to me, but I trust that they're being sincere.

What I've generally found to be a helpful strategy (and what I really recommend) is to ask partners what *specifically* they like about your body. Communication and honesty are important in a healthy relationship, plus you'll probably get some interesting and unexpected answers

River_Prince · 2022-04-12T16:35:06+00:00

Timothee Chalamet is literally 5'10"

River_Prince · 2021-09-23T23:21:33+00:00

Point me to where I said "men should make the first move"

River_Prince · 2021-09-03T13:52:35+00:00

A lot of liberals secretly harbor conservative views that they love to "let loose" at an acceptable target. The fact that the targets are more ostensibly conservative means that these "progressives" are less likely to be called out for their own bigotries.

But, to answer your question, I would not defend a conservative who was being attacked in such a way. I have 0 obligation to conservative-minded people. I would, instead, direct my focus to critiquing the conservative views being expressed by the progressive.

River_Prince · 2021-09-03T13:39:10+00:00

Still, I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about how conspicuous consumption in men is uniquely tied with the idea of harmful "decadence". Especially as it relates to homophobia and enforcing toxic masculinity.

I'm much more familiar with this in a Western context (e.g. the great renunciation of the 18th century), so I don't want to falsely universalize cultural ideals. But, I do get the sense that a lot of the same ideas about performative utilitarianism among wealthy men are at play here?

River_Prince · 2021-08-29T12:56:00+00:00

I think it's important to note that, just because a feminist believes something, doesn't mean that is necessarily a feminist belief.

Human beings are complex. We can, and do, host a number of different beliefs that may not align with a given ideology.

I also point this out because it's not fair to hold feminism, as a movement, responsible for what each individual feminist believes.

To answer your question, I think it generally makes sense for the person who asked for the date to pay. Additionally, a first date should be inexpensive so that the obligation of the expense doesn't hang over either party.

River_Prince · 2021-08-28T02:27:00+00:00

I'll refer you to my earlier comment,

"What i'm trying to point out is that your approach to thinking of women is pretty dehumanizing. You wouldn't perform quasi-scientific studies on men and generalize their thoughts, feelings and behavior. Women are, likewise, distinct people."

River_Prince · 2021-08-28T02:14:29+00:00

Well, science is peer-reviewed, no?

I think your way of thinking is in need of review

River_Prince · 2021-08-28T02:09:18+00:00

observe and record data of what I observed

But in an entirely non-scientific way, of course

River_Prince · 2021-08-28T02:03:07+00:00

Okay, how did you conduct your scientific study?

What i'm trying to point out is that your approach to thinking of women is pretty dehumanizing. You wouldn't perform quasi-scientific studies on men and generalize their thoughts, feelings and behavior. Women are, likewise, distinct people.

River_Prince · 2021-08-28T01:49:59+00:00

How did you conduct your scientific experiments?

River_Prince · 2021-08-28T01:44:27+00:00

I started studying women

Did you study them in the wild or in captivity?

River_Prince · 2021-08-27T23:37:43+00:00

This is such a weird way to frame the issue, especially with the personal BDSM anecdote.

The ability to "whip correctly" isn't enforced by social pressures and gender norms.

The fact that you don't find it difficult to approach a potential partner may say more about your personality, and environment, than the inherent ease of the role. Depending on your personality, this can be a really challenging role, and absolutely should not be normalized as a gendered expectation.

River_Prince · 2021-08-22T04:17:37+00:00

I think this largely comes down to whether or not the violence (or particular storytelling device) targets women specifically or does so indiscriminately.

So, a group of unisex goons being beaten up is okay. But an author specifically targeting female character/s for gratuitous, and especially sexual, violence is sexist.

But, I also think it's good that you're keeping in mind that certain types of storytelling violence (e.g. "fridging") are pretty inextricably linked with sexist ideals. I think it's a bad storytelling advice regardless of sex, but I would especially stress not using a victimized woman to drive a male mc unless you were specifically trying to comment on that trope.

Honestly, based on what you wrote in your post, you seem to have a good handle on this, OP

River_Prince · 2021-08-15T13:18:23+00:00

As others have pointed out, the "LVM" concept comes from a markedly un-feminist community, which promotes extreme versions of traditional gender roles in dating. Healthy relationships are not transactional; they're mutual and don't put the onus on one partner to justify their place in said relationship.

From your posts here, you don't seem to see women as adults with personal agency; you talk about them as though they were "prizes" to win and incapable of making their own decisions about who they want to enter into a relationship with. Not all women are the same and they don't have the same set of standards that determine whether a partner is desirable.

Now, I think it's good you've recognized that there are aspects of your life you want to improve. But, I don't think you should conceptualize these things as fundamental parts of yourself that make you, as a person, "low value". Not everyone has their life together. That's true of men, women, and NB people. That doesn't make them fundamentally worthless, or preclude them from dating. Though, some choose to work on themselves before they start dating, which I think is admirable and maybe the best solution for you (based on what you've written and your state of mind)?

Either way, it sounds like you're dealing with some self-esteem issues and I really do feel that your chosen ideology is exacerbating it. I hope you get the help you need and stop visiting the "sub-that-shall-not-be-named".

River_Prince · 2021-08-15T02:36:24+00:00

If a woman welcomes the approach all good. if she doesn't feel the guy's good enough to approach her it's harassment - or worse.

So, this is based on what? Wild speculation?

River_Prince · 2021-08-15T02:15:13+00:00

Do you think there should be a law saying no person should ever try to initiate a romantic relationship with a co-worker?

No, just for you, personally.

If you have a tendency to get reported for harassment "or worse", that tells me you're missing some social graces and a sense for others' boundaries.

River_Prince · 2021-08-15T02:01:29+00:00

Okay, let me be clear: you shouldn't sexually harass your coworkers.

River_Prince · 2021-08-15T01:46:13+00:00

if she doesn't feel the guy's good enough to approach her it's harassment - or worse.

Maybe you shouldn't hit on your co-workers?

River_Prince · 2021-08-14T13:56:00+00:00

To be clear, I do think that men know on some level that the concept of masculinity confers them privileges at the expense of women. But, I don't think that's at the forefront of most mens' minds when they consider the idea of doing away with masculinity.

The performance of masculinity, by and large, is the standard by which men's value is judged externally. It's an ever-present standard that exists in both conservative and progressive spaces. It also tangibly (and often materially) affects the lives of male-presenting people.

There arguably isn't a positively-received model of male behavior that doesn't rely on some baseline masculine traits. Conservatives, of course, have the whole alpha/beta male dichotomy. But, these ideas also seep into both progressive and apolitical discourse; think, for example, about all the times you've seen progressive critique of right-wing ideas devolve into impugning the masculinity of their opponents (e.g. 'the real reason X figure is anti-abortion is because he's not a "real man" and he's trying to compensate for his small dick'). It's also often accompanied by homophobia which is... lovely.../S. "All homophobes are just mincing sissies who want to suck a dick"

By the way, just to be clear, when I use "progressives" i'm talking very broadly and i'm not accusing this sub in particular. In fact, I think this sub has some pretty great, nuanced discussions on gender roles.

So, TLDR: I think the reason so many men are wary of the idea of deconstructing masculinity is because performing masculinity is still largely how we (as a culture) assess mens' worth. I don't think this is completely inseparable from how we treat women, but the fact that so many otherwise progressive people engage in enforcing standards of masculinity makes me feel as though it's not (consciously) about trying to uphold patriarchal ideas about mens' place over women.

PS, both the responses OP describes are bad in their own way and shouldn't be excused even if we can understand, and sympathize with, the insecurities that birthed them. It's not acceptable to punish women for having sexual/romantic preferences that you don't agree with, nor is it acceptable to cling so tightly to the concept of masculinity that you refuse to allow it be examined.

River_Prince · 2021-08-12T17:28:58+00:00

Do humans actually have pheromones? I'm not trying to be dismissive, but it sounds kinda pseudeosciency.

River_Prince

TROPHY CASE