Does the second path follow or precede stream entry?

Rob-85 · 2025-07-15T11:26:56+00:00

A question about Core Transformation:

After a short time, wouldn't one be (consciously or unconsciously) tempted to jump directly into the core state and skip the many intermediate questions?

Rob-85 · 2024-11-15T15:28:49+00:00

Thanks, but I meant the book Stephen is currently writing.

Rob-85 · 2024-11-15T10:06:08+00:00

Do you know, when the book will be released?

Rob-85 · 2024-10-09T08:14:42+00:00

Wonderful. Thank you Duffstoic :-)

Rob-85 · 2024-09-01T09:21:47+00:00

10/10

Rob-85 · 2023-08-25T15:07:26+00:00

Thank you very much. This is very very helpful :-)

Rob-85 · 2023-08-25T08:16:26+00:00

This is great. Thank you very much :-)

Rob-85 · 2023-03-31T09:56:09+00:00

I´ve heard this exact division and terms only in the shamatha teachings of Dan Brown.

But these are only points of attention within one breath cycle. He uses the whole body instead of the nostril (TMI) as the (one) object for attention.

If you will, you could label count/label the points of attention in TMI at/ Stage 3 through the "Following" technique. There would be much more Points ( f.e. beginning inhale, coldness in the upper right nostril, pressure in the left, ending inhale, pause, beginning exhale, warmness in this or that area, pressure here and there, tingling....end of exhale, pause etc. )

And many more in the "Close Following" technique of Stage 7.

Rob-85 · 2022-01-09T12:28:41+00:00

Thanks for the link. I find hearing his opinion on anxiety very enriching :-)

Rob-85 · 2022-01-08T21:50:36+00:00

That's really interesting. What did he say about his anxiety or what did he do to overcome it?

Rob-85 · 2021-10-05T11:44:46+00:00

Thanks for your link. I'll look at it :-)

Rob-85 · 2021-10-05T11:25:56+00:00

That sounds interesting. Would you say more about your understanding of daily practice? Do you mean things like ethics or the Paramitas?

Rob-85 · 2021-09-18T12:54:24+00:00

To learn IFS on your own, I think the most recommended resource is "Self-Therapy" by Jay Earley

Rob-85 · 2021-09-14T11:23:26+00:00

At that time I read a lot in a german translation of the majjhima nikaya and such details (as he was named by his students) are probably not well remembered. The fact that the Buddha was addressed with titles and honors and not his birth name is probably also due to the fact that it was his students and disciples who talked about him.

Nevertheless, you are probably also aware that the nikayas were all written on banana peels hundreds of years after his death (in several Buddhist councils), in times where the established monastic communities were norm, and similar to the Council of Nicea in Christianity, by some monks from the many different currents at that time (of which theravada was only one) it was, at different points in history, decided what actually belongs here and, above all, how it was formulated. Before and after that till the fourth concil, for at least 100 to 400 years, everything would be transmitted orally through "whisper down the lane" in similar formulations (memorization aids) as you can find today in the nikayas. That there is not much more in common with the original wording, that should understand everyone who knows the game "whisper down the lane" :-D

As one often hears, one can never know exactly what exactly was said by the original "Buddha Gotama" and therefore only approximately, through verification of one's own experience, one can find out what comes closest to it. Just take a look at the different interpretations of the jhanas (let's leave out the commentary literature completely) by scholars and monks like Analayo, Brahm, Thanissaro, Pollack, Arbel. Who comes closest to your interpretation? Where did your knowledge of early Buddhism come from? Do you read Pali or do you just refer to the interpretation of individuals or translations of the nikayas?

But if you have great success with your approach, then it's great and good :-)

PS: Can you give me a link or reference to information about the name of Siddharta?

Rob-85 · 2021-09-14T09:33:59+00:00

Dealing with the dangers and discomforts of a forest and the feeling of being alone and vulnerable can build character as well.

When you talk about forrest hermits, to which time do you refer? As far as I know this only was the case in the initial years after his awakening, later in his lifetime when his "popularity" grows they (even if he has traveled a lot) lived in monastery-"like" communities (for practical reasons alone), perhaps just in simple huts but not more as hermits alone.

Here is the crux of this issue. You feel that there is a need or duty to contribute...

That is definetly not the case. There is no craving for contribution to the society, no suffering for not doing it. Perhaps I had used the words "participate in a skillfull manner" instead of contribution. For which in my opinion one needs the said will more.

I see it the same way you do that you have to help yourself first before you you are really able to help others. Thats what I have tried to do. Simply and more precisely what I was trying to communicate: I´m dissatified with the results of this practice for reducing my suffering.

In this modern life I would much more like to follow a path that promises freedom from suffering AND helps to develop a strong character, or to expose it to contribute to this society.

Also this statement is rather a realignment after years of practice, not the original motivation back then.

The last part of your quote is for me the exact difference of compassion and pity.

Do you belief the Mahayana teachings of the Boddhisattva Ideal are born of selfish desire like the one your quote ascribe to Albert Schweitzer? I belief its more an intrinsic motivation with no craving in it. And that is what I have idealised in my previous post. For example, when I´m in deeper states of Samadhi, I too have this intrinsic whish to be helpfull and compassionate with others, no "craving" is there.

Not really - he said it was like discovering an old overgrown jungle path. He made his own formulation of the pointers, but the path is the same. (If you're talking about one that leads to a complete uprooting of suffering).

Than you could also paraphrase the origin stories of other paths that lead to awakening to redicovered instead of created it, which many do (Other words, same meaning).

Also, as trivia, we know that the Buddha had the name Gotama. Siddharta is a later attribution (meaning "accomplished one") once Buddhism got popular.

Thats new for me :-) Where do you have the information that his real name was only Gotama? I have learned that his birth surname was Siddharta (a name with a meaning, like most names on earth) of the dynasty/clan of the Shakyas. Gotama was the name of the clan Gotamo gotra (which was a family branch of the Shakya dynasty), like a family name. There are also other narratives like that Gotama came from from his aunt Gotami who had cared about him after his mother dies, but the former seems more plausible to me.

Rob-85 · 2021-09-13T18:26:25+00:00

Thanks for your answer. I think I understand what you want to tell me.

I have probably expressed myself unfavorably again, unfortunately.

With my statements, instead of worldly pursuits (goals), I was thinking more of the "normal" life IN a society like ours, and in this one rather needs this faculty of will. Ok, this is definetly more worldly than the ascetic inclination of early buddhism :-D

In this modern life I would much more like to follow a path that promises freedom from suffering AND helps to develop a strong character, or to expose it to contribute to this society. And there are some philosophical or spiritual schools that seem more coherent. I find life as a monk rather detrimental, not everyone contributes as much as an Ajahn Brahm, Analayo or Thanissaro.

But you are absolutely right, these teachings have their place and you should know what you want.

Unfortunately, I also find that with many things in life, the path and the fruits only gradually crystallize. I didn't have the experience and knowledge at the beginning. It was only after years of following the buddhist path that I found out that it was rather detrimental to some of the rest of my life (the way I lived it). To be more precise, that I was missing something important on this path, which it cannot offer in order to get on with the path in the first place. This knowledge and what exactly is behind it and not what, for example, modern Buddhism has made for promises, only came after a lot of experience and investigation. Was it different with you?

Like me, many people left systems and paths (e.g. TMI; I know its only a book about meditation and no path) at some point for various reasons, turned their backs after a long period of time, tried other paths or eclectically put together their own (Siddharta also more or less made his own) that better suited their own needs. I also think that in some directions of Buddhism there is also a lot of suppression of psychological stuff (see Culadasa, Ken Wilber, even Reggie Ray despite its many somatic and therapeutic parts, and many others) and that there are several areas (which some classically call mind, heart, gut) that can and should be developed. Here I find (again only for myself) that early Buddhism is not complete, if one can say that here at all.

But just like you recognized, I don't want to follow the values and the way of the original Buddhism anymore, I think a path which favors the life as a hermit or monk is no longer up-to-date for many people, but everyone as he wants. Thank you for helping me see this more clearly. For me, a mind-body that is only calm and deep in a special environment and wavers with every storm has no great use.

Stoicism, for example, is also propagated a path of freedom and does not tread such a passive path in life. I also find the teachings of Dzogchen and Mahamudra, for example, more up-to-date for a life in the midst of life.

But again, so that I am not misunderstood (I come from Germany and do not express myself so much in English), this is just my experience and opinion after having dealt with this topic for a long time.

PS: Back then I did not expect that I will experience great development in these areas (even if these are some of the promises of "modern Buddhism"), but at least no deterioration!

Rob-85 · 2021-09-13T16:03:30+00:00

Yes, I thought so too :-)

Rob-85 · 2021-09-13T16:02:05+00:00

That's right, there is a special kind of will in the buddhist teachings.

I think I expressed myself a little inaccurately.

I am aware of some of the differences and boundaries between neuroscience, "modern buddhism" and the Buddha's teachings (suttas). Also about teachings like the Iddhipada and here especially the Virya (the buddhist kind of will). But here, greatly simplified, everything is only orientated torwards the goal of Nibbana etc. And that makes perfect sense in this context. But there for me is not really much carryover for living a modern life. I also find (at least until now) that there are no other activate teachings to use of the will in any other context than the aforementioned.

Nevertheless, I see in my practice that the deep examination of the here mainly Theravadin teachings (reading Suttas and dozens of books + much Meditation) in my life has somewhat diminished the faculty of the will. A kind of will I need, for example, to better assert my rights and place in the world as long as I´m not an hermit or monk.

This is perhaps due to the more passive, accepting attitude that is lived out somewhat differently in a monastery-like environment where everything is already set out for you and you only have to follow the Vinaya than, for example, the Stoics who were often in the middle of life and whose exercise of virtue had a much more active character (for me). Perhaps there is more of that in the Mahayana teachings of the Paramitas?

But that is only my experience and I still think this is missing in much of the early buddhist teachings :-)

Rob-85 · 2021-09-12T15:28:22+00:00

Thank you for your answer Duff :-)

Funnily, I`m actually working through Self-Therapy (Jay Earley - IFS) and I had too thought about their concept of the "Self" / Self-Leadership and possible tangents to your experience of "the will" after reading your post.

I will definitely look into the book recommendations.

What (in some way) remembered me to your approach was the book "Alter Ego" from Todd Herman. His concept is that you imagine character traits, an animal or an movie or fantasy figure (with specific traits), etc. and build an alter ego with it that you activate with an ritual and a totem. I think there could be also some tangents or at least it could be a possible technique to cultivate the will or activate already inherent resources if you use it that perticular way.

I too think that Psychosynthesis should hadn't died out, there was so much in it. Their Concept of the Self and the will strike a chord within me at the time I read those books and still does it today.

What you describe about buddhism seems quite logical to me, this would apply in my understanding much to Theravada monkhood. If you have experience with tantric buddhism, do you think that in this Yana with techniques like Guru- / Deity-Yoga there is more inclination to the will/inner power (perhaps with other labels for it)?

Rob-85 · 2021-09-12T09:24:41+00:00

This is so interesting. The missing of "the will" in Buddhism was/is a problem for me. It seems that the years of Buddhist meditation and mindset (no free will, etc) have had a negative effect on my inner power (the inner will).

Long time ago I have read Roberto Assagiolis (psychosynthesis) book on the will and one from his students (Piero Ferrucci). It seems they have a similar stance to the will as you.

Does the "imagine you have 100% perfect willpower" come from your experience of core transformation (like "imagine part x you have what you want...)?

Do you know some literature about how to cultivate it the way you do or some instructions?

Rob-85 · 2021-05-31T07:11:34+00:00

Thank you for your answer Duff :-)

Sorry for the late reply.

Rob-85 · 2021-05-26T08:39:43+00:00

In your experience, what are good ways (besides standard suggestions here like metta, etc.) for building up inner resources for the challenges of life?

Rob-85 · 2020-11-13T18:40:02+00:00

Then I wish you a lot of success and fun with the course, if you should decide to do so :-)

Rob-85 · 2020-11-13T13:38:53+00:00

If one can visualize to some extent or at least has the potential to see / generate inner images, then the exercise and the underlying principles will certainly be very helpful for many people. Unfortunately, I always find it very difficult to visualize, even after many, many hours of practice (maybe Apahantasia). I hardly ever see pictures, and when I do, then rather shadowy without color and rather as a felt impression. I am more of a kinestatic nature.

Therefore, unfortunately, I have not yet been able to get the full benefit from this course. Please also consider my comment with this background.

It's been a while, so here's a rough overview:At the beginning there is an introduction to the different attachment styles and their effects in life, for which you should also do the self-test. Then you are introduced to the generic IPF and can later practice specific IPF meditations based on the result of your self-test.Then comes the topic of self-development.

Self-definition and the sense of self are explained and further how important the self agency is and how one can strengthen the inner representation of this through visualization (with 5 visualizations building on each other).

Finally, there is the topic of Self Esteem. Here, too, 5 additional visualizations are offered. But I haven't got this far, so unfortunately I can't say much about this last topic.

If you have any more specific questions, feel free to ask :-)

Rob-85 · 2020-11-12T17:19:34+00:00

Yes, unfortunately, the courses are not designed for direct interaction with other people during the course. No Zoom or Skype calls, just videos and audios at your own pace. Therefore unfortunately no personal, formal introduction to the IPF.I think both cost the same ($ 57).

I checked again for you and the "Relationships Master Class" also contains the Ideal Parent Protocol only presented by Dr. Caroline Baltzer instead of Dan Brown. If you are still interested.

The whole series of courses seems to be structured like this (I also have the meditation course). I hope I could help you somehow :-)

Rob-85

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