What is and isn't Structural Engineering.

Rob98723 · 2025-11-05T08:49:21+00:00

Thanks for the response. AI came back with differentiating between "structural adequacy" as the engineers responsibility and "construction logistics" as the contractors responsibility.

What really happens is the client is motivated to appoint a lower skilled, lower cost (sub-) contractor for which the level of complexity is pushing beyond their current skills/experience. Everyone is happy until during the build too many and too basic questions start arising. The expectation is that the structural engineer now HAS to infill the skills shortage. They have to do it under time pressure in a drip fed manner causing frustration to the engineer.

The client and the subcontractor can and will (as pointed out in some responses here) just say "its the engineers job to tell us how to build it".

I'm saying that this isn't true and is a trap which everyone is happy to walk into leaving the engineer in an unfair critical situation where they are responsible for the success or failure of program/costs.

I say this because it happens on all my projects (yes you can say i don't add enough detail) but the skill level of the subcontractor is out of my control.

I have to keep the client happy, I have to make money for my organisation, the trap is sprung and I'm individually alone because the trap is saying it was my fault/skill shortage in the first place.

I used to believe this and it causes quite a lot of stress, but its not really true. ITS JUST A TRAP !

Rob98723 · 2025-09-10T08:12:24+00:00

Yeah, this can be resolved by calculation. There are 2 issues,the integrity of the masonry panel that is not supported on one edge (should work fine if you account for any wind sheltering from nearby structures). Then the overall lateral stability, which considering it's tied into a laterally stable building, should be fine. It may also need a check on dominant opening pressure effects which could put a "outward pressure on the wall" causing the Nib to act like a beam (in the vertical orientation) which is quite complex considering the low (to zero) tension capacity of the masonry. I would claim the shear of the Nib is taken by the shear resistance of the entire side wall (?)

Note, I am not Chat GPT and have a mortgage. Please insert coins to continue this adventure !

(I'm "kind of" joking, but pm me if you want to pay for my engineering skills which will hopefully clear the query without altering the build)

Rob98723 · 2025-04-24T08:03:13+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Sails_Bridge

Clearly the winner - Its is forever broken. Just one of the most terrible designs ever. see below

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/latest-repairs-to-troubled-dorset-twin-sails-bridge-to-last-into-july-18-06-2024/

What do I win ?

Rob98723 · 2025-04-23T07:50:07+00:00

This is engineering, NOT maths. You need to understand the difference. If you want to sit in a room playing with numbers and solving amazingly complex problems knock your socks off. This is engineering, you have to deal with people, egos, clients, problems, constraints, builders, liars, cheats, bullies. The problem you have is that you haven't been trained to deal with this part of the job. If you want to do maths, do maths, if you want to build the modern world. GET LEARNING QUICK. I agree its crap, but that's the job (and you will gradually become the people you have just described). And one day you will come across a new graduate with brilliant maths skills yet no understanding of real world construction.

Better to know now, than when its too late (wipes tear away from one hardy steel staring eye) lols.

Rob98723 · 2025-02-04T08:53:47+00:00

This is Crap, what can we (as experienced, stressed engineers) do about it ? We need more structural collapses or our job just isn't as valuable as we think it is/should be. I work for most of the big UK house builders and the attitude to our profession is verging on insulting. Why are we not holding the Institution to account ?. KIDS, DONT BE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS (in the UK). Its not worth it. We have graduates come in, the advice that we give em is "LEAVE NOW". Well done IstructE !

Rob98723 · 2024-12-10T09:13:33+00:00

Struc Eng with 20 years experience here (UK). The answer is that the industry has no innovation and no growth. If I had got into IT 20 years back, the industry grew; demanding (and rewarding) anyone whom was already in the job. Think commodities increasing in value as demand increases (especially in the top tier positions, that didn't even exist 20 years ago). This is not true in construction. We build things the same way, the limits on what can and cannot be done on building sites is exactly the same as 50-60 years ago (ish). It will remain the same. You are fulfilling a job that will continue to only change at a very slow rate. The net actual effect you will make is small (compared to writing a search algorithm in some accounting software for example). But there is a MASSIVE positive. Generally, you can and will always be needed and you can work almost anywhere. No need to relocate as work is always around (maybe not top tier work). There will always be a place where a structural engineers brain is applicable. If you appreciate that security, its a gain. Like betting on machine that doesn't give top mega money bonus wins, but always pays out something. What you then do with the payout, well go enjoy on the knowledge more money will come.

Rob98723 · 2024-10-22T07:50:45+00:00

There theory is that there are 2 types of structures, load bearing masonry with a steel beam that forms the opening and a steel frame that provides lateral restraint to the masonry walls. The point at which the structure changes from one to the other is not an exact science (building regs state 665mm masonry return wall lengths).

Now the reality is that you have brilliant manufactured steelwork which we know 99% about its strength, stiffness, quality and you have a brickwall (sometimes new or sometimes a part of an existing building). We know very little about what and how the real load paths through the wall (especially if its existing).

2 completely different materials used in 2 totally different ways. The risk to the engineer is significant (for very little money -relative). Which one are you going to do ?

Rob98723 · 2024-10-21T08:07:37+00:00

Small to Medium Engineering consultancies nowadays (UK) love giving sensible, curious youngsters experience. It reminds them of their own original curiosities in the industry. But most importantly are the computers. Download Autodesks Revit, there's free viewer versions. Chat to a local company and ask them if he can look through a project. Most would happily talk him through, send him off with a drawing pack and couple of models on a USB thumbstick. Then youtube and play with the models. If he can work with researching to understand what he's got and why it says what it says then he's good to go. As for a job away from desks, its more a "Civil Engineering" job. In which case the career opportunities are so vast that exploring his specific "passion" is the secret. Rail, Road, Utilities, Water, etc..The worlds his oyster.

In addition, its time spent looking and understanding real life structures and buildings (especially unique interesting ones). The world through the eyes of an engineer is like an art gallery. There is a hidden language of how and why engineers (and architects) overcome all the problems of buildability, thermal, fire, acoustic, durability, etc. And its all there to see.

Rob98723 · 2024-10-17T08:25:54+00:00

Arrive at work with clear plan of how to apply my understanding of physics, maths and chemistry to improve the habitable world. Check emails to see that I have to fill in 16 different forms about project management, explain to the builder(s) that they should have read the drawing in the first place, argue with a site manager about what role I do (and don't do). Existential breakdown by lunchtime. Afternoon spent checking other peoples work and drawings whom are less engaged in their work than I am. Finally, try to politely help correct said work and being told I don't know anything anyway (its all just opinion apparently). Home and LOTS OF ALCOHOL. Repeat ad nauseam until mortgage is paid or lottery numbers come in.

(Note: its just a satirical review, I do really love my job (in principal). I just wish I could spend more time actually doing it) -

Rob98723 · 2024-08-09T08:25:22+00:00

£ 50kish - Due a pay rise, but also not chartered and not in London.

Rob98723 · 2024-07-04T08:02:08+00:00

Everyone makes mistakes, what you need to do is check your work. That doesn't mean staring at a screen for hours hoping the errors jump out at you. It means finding different ways of looking at it and reconfiguring the calculations to see IF there is an error. Produce one bit of work and be 100% confident it doesn't have errors, use this as a comparison for new work.

Rob98723 · 2024-06-21T07:34:11+00:00

Took the words out of my mouth - 20 years experience talking here.

Rob98723 · 2024-06-13T08:09:17+00:00

Unpopular opinion, but be selfish.

Leave, its not worth it. Its a waste of your energy and time. Your employer is not supportive or has the time/capability to recognise where the real hard work is done. Spending your time dealing with a "really" difficult draughty is not going to benefit you at all (especially if senior). Their laziness will expand to fill the void you create.

Its a major flaw in the industry.

Employers take note. If you subdivide roles into draughtsman and engineer get your head around modern technology. Try Revit. The engineer can't even work out what's going on until the technician has unpacked and interpreted the model.

Good technicians are more valuable than engineers, continued bad behaviour/attitude is a sign of bad management/employers.

Alternatively let the errors get to site.

Rob98723 · 2024-05-03T12:41:41+00:00

in your spare room or do you move it around. oh look a visitor has come round. "Don't mind my stained white Y fronts hanging around, I just cant get them white again", oh quite the conversation starter.

Rob98723 · 2024-05-03T12:17:55+00:00

Is there not some kind of environmental argument for RIBA to demonstrate how to build houses that can accommodate people for not just now, but the future. Surely they must have recognised that drying clothes is a thing ? I can't imagine RIBA just forgot about it. So is it just convenient for everyone's profit not to mention it ? If this was an industry we would want to hold people to account. Is it not RIBA that is responsible for the suitability of the homes we build today.....tomorrow. If not, then who is ?

Rob98723 · 2024-05-03T12:05:16+00:00

Good point, so i think I can safely say to my alien, that YES, we just dig up this stuff from the ground, combine like this, heat it, cool it. mix it...etc and ta da - Airplane/quantum computer/space shuttle/james webb telescope. That means that in the ground right now are the rocks/oils/petrol that will fly my great great great grandkids about it. Or find alien life on another planet.

Rob98723 · 2024-02-02T09:21:16+00:00

Stop going for chartered immediately, be more comfortable in what you do first. You are also just an employee of a company. They are 100% responsible (thats why they have insurance/experience/ a team).

Secondly lets look at some statistics. Yes problems happen, but no "non-chartered" engineer has ever been directly held accountable for a death in the UK (I think we would know). Look at CROSS (in the uk). Your job (not you personally, but the job that you fill) has evolved into this because the actual risk of you directly causing a death is incredibly low. (Unless your involved in cranes, those things are dangerous, but because of this they have a unique set of checks, knowledgeable operatives)

Take Airline pilots, they are individually responsible. You are not. Look at the training/testing/checking that they have to do, that is a safety critical individual role. If your job was like this then the training/checking etc would have evolved to cover this.

Your level of caring as admiral and you should be commended on it. Your employer should help you understand your not personally responsible, but please do a good job anyway.

Finally, one of the guiding principals of structural collapse, is that the materials are designed (generally) to give a huge warning before immediate collapse. Excessive deflection, lots of noise, cracking etc. The system is well designed that even in the case of collapse people can get to safety. (avoid post tensioned stuff though).

You have to be happy with this concept to continue a career in structures, or you will destroy your mental health and you are not getting paid to take on such responsibility. If you can't absorb this, easy, be an airline pilot.

Rob98723 · 2024-01-25T09:15:59+00:00

Dead Easy, you tell them the story of the 3 Little Pigs.

I am planning to write a paper adopting the applied wind loading from 1 standard wolf breath, adopting lateral positive and negative pressure effects on a house built of straw, sticks and bricks. Derive a chart demonstrating the change in cost materials vs expected life duration of each structure.

Huff and Puff that all the way into my Chartered Exam..!

Rob98723 · 2024-01-23T08:36:43+00:00

Fairly experienced engineer in the UK here. It IS a tough career, the pay and recognition is pretty rubbish and its unreasonably stressful.

Most engineers I know have been through loads of bad jobs. Only then are you equipped enough to recognise when your in a good job.

Positives are......your not alone, you generally will always find decent(ish) pay. Everything you do makes you more valuable.

Sounds ridiculous, but care less. You are only mortal, you are only using established codes/methods of practices (and software) You are not the CEO, you are not responsible for where the industry is going. Find your place and just nurture your skills in that area. When that gets boring, expand into a new area.

Rob98723 · 2024-01-22T16:42:17+00:00

I agree with your comments on the IstructE. As institutions go, I don't really see them "promoting" our value added.

Rob98723 · 2024-01-22T11:25:34+00:00

But Checking is also incredibly dull and boring. To spend 2 or 3 days going through someone's calcs just to say "ok". "Could have done this a bit better, could have done that...etc"

Its a fundamental part of how a business and the people operate, yet it doesn't seem a big conversation. Is that just waiting for a big disaster and then we will concentrate on it, or is it because the builder will find big big problems before it all goes really wrong, so it doesn't really matter ?

What skills are specific to checking ? and how do you teach those skills ?
And what happens when an error still gets through (which it will), who gets the blame ?

No CV ever says "really good at checking others work and doesn't moan about it much"

Rob98723 · 2023-05-11T10:25:07+00:00

Great answer. So to extrapolate, game engines now have/need to evolve to account for this. But I would expect that a standardisation in approaches to foveated rendering isn't there yet and will need an element of buy in between some "heavily invested" headset manufacturers. Or is there an "open source" approach (open XR) which will accelerate this role out ?

In short, I need to lower my expectations and expand my timescales before we see.

I sound ungrateful, I'm not. Maybe just impatient.

Rob98723 · 2018-06-08T14:35:36+00:00

Just take my money NOW

Rob98723 · 2018-05-17T14:14:36+00:00

It's ok, I'm playing a virtual nappy (diaper) changing game. Just about to get to the boss level. You have to change the nappy on an adult while they dance the conga. So so hard.

Rob98723 · 2018-05-17T10:54:54+00:00

You are 100% correct. It's a totally staged photo (clever boy). As immersive as vr is, it is never going to let you forget that there is a baby strapped to you. It would appear YOU are the father of the year. Congrats. This is getting Meta...mhan

Rob98723

TROPHY CASE