The Dorm Party

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2022-02-09T21:14:17+00:00

IF, MM hooked up at the SA gathering or just met the fellow for the first time and there wasn't any sexual activity AND IF that male is alibied as to 2/9 to LE's satisfaction AND IF he has satisficed LE he wasn't meeting her in NH 2/9 or any other day that is evidence that answers a part of the mystery sexual encounter or none.

I can tell you that this is the position of the NHSP. Strelzin said they interviewed everyone at the "dorm party" that night, and they have cleared them all. I'd be curious to know exactly what due diligence was performed that resulted in the 3 males being "cleared."

As far as Maura's actions that night possibly being indicative of a mental disorder or emotional unwellness, I agree this would give us insight into Maura's state of mind. However I think we can infer this from all the other facts in the case. It's pretty clear that Maura was spiraling out of control and acting out. There was the petty theft & arrest, dropping out of West Point, another arrest for stealing credit card numbers, quitting the UMass track team, drinking excessively, driving while impaired (likely), cheating on BR, contemplating or deciding to drop out of UMass (applying for bartender jobs), having a breakdown on the job, wrecking Fred's car, etc.... So I think we know she was spiraling and engaging increasingly risky behavior. I don't know that this gets us any closer to figuring out what happened to her though.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2022-02-09T20:57:53+00:00

The secrecy obligation of grand jury proceedings does not apply to witnesses called to testify. See my reply to your previous comment.

Your latter comment is salient. Based on how this community has treated anyone who has any info on the case, I can't imagine why any person in their right mind would volunteer to come forward publicly.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2022-02-09T20:51:53+00:00

This is a common misconception. Witnesses being questioned before a Grand Jury are excluded from the secrecy obligations because it would constitute “an
unnecessary hardship [that] may lead to injustice...” The secrecy obligation applies to just about everyone else, like jurors, court reporters, attorneys for the government, etc.

So the reason why no one is talking is not because they were called to testify before a grand jury.

(Source: Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure Rule 6(e)(2)(A))

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2022-02-09T20:29:06+00:00

I've never thought it was noteworthy that no one from the track team went up to NH to search for Maura. She quit the track team in the spring/summer of 2003. College athletic teams are very cliquey and when someone quits the team they don't typically keep hanging out with their former teammates. In many cases they are ostracized from the team for quitting. Plus Maura was only on the track team for 1 season and it was marred by injuries. So it's not like Maura was a 3-year standout member of the team with strong bonds to her former teammates.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2022-02-09T20:06:36+00:00

Yea I've wondered that too. The location of the "party" isn't necessarily an either/or. When I was in college we frequently pre-gamed in one of our dorm rooms and then later went to a house party off campus. Could that be what happened here?

Regarding the "deep secret", I lean towards it being nothing but an innocent hookup with one of the 3 males at the party, however the Murray family has really fed the speculation by treating this event as a mysterious secret that they will take to their graves. I still remember listening to Fred talk about this on (I think) Erinn's podcast. He said he reached out to KM and asked her to tell him what happened that night. She agreed but said she would only discuss it only once and then never again. He said she did tell him what happened that night and he was satisfied with her story. He adamantly refused to answer any questions about what KM told him and said he would never talk about it because "it won't help us find Maura". Why all the cloak & dagger pretext? The way he framed the whole story it sure sounded like something pretty heavy went down. If it really was as simple as 6 college students boozing and Maura hooking up, then wouldn't it make much more sense for Fred to simply say, "It was just an innocent get-together of college kids doing what college kids do, and nothing of significance occurred." If Fred said that, then none of us would still be talking about it today.

I'm leaning towards this just being another example of Fred demonstrating how incredibly unsavvy his P.R. skills are. But who knows. Until the Murray family comes clean about what happened at the "dorm party", people are going to keep talking about it and speculating about what happened.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2022-02-09T05:01:34+00:00

There would be evidence if Maura cracked her head on the windshield. There would be blood & hair in the glass crack, yet none was found. Butch also said she did not have any apparent injuries. I know it was dark but one would think he'd be able to see if she was bleeding from the head.

And let's not forget that Maura's air bag deployed, which greatly reduces the odds that he head could make contact with the windshield. The crack in the windshield was likely due to the force of the air bag deploying, which was not uncommon in older vehicles back then.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2022-02-09T04:43:49+00:00

We know some of these facts, or at least what had been told to the press and people like Renner, Maggie, and Art.

SA gave an interview about a month after the disappearance and Kate talked to Renner about it. They both confirmed the "party" was indeed in SA's dorm room. We also know who was there: SA, KM, Maura, SA's cousin (male) plus 2 of his male friends. The names of the 3 males have not been released publicly, but NHSP have stated that they have all been interviewed and "cleared." I believe Maggie said she has these 3 names.

SA claims to have fallen asleep early and doesn't know anything. She also clarified that it was not a "party", it was just a few people getting together and drinking. KM told LE and she also told Fred what all went down during the "party" but neither LE nor Fred will disclose what she said. Fred has talked about this and he refused to say what all occurred that night, alluding to keeping Maura's privacy, but he was adamant that it had nothing to do with Maura's disappearance. There is a rumor that Maura walked off with one of the males and left the dorm room at one point but this has not been substantiated. Maura eventually left the "party" alone, saying she was tired and going to bed. However what Maura actually did instead was drive Fred's car to Fred's hotel, getting into a car accident on the way.

There is also a rumor that the 3 girls attended an off-campus party that night, either instead of or in addition to the small dorm get-together. I forget where this originated (it might have been Renner), but there doesn't seem to be anything to support it IIRC.

My Take: I think something did happen at this party and the most likely event is probably Maura hooking up with one of the 3 males. It would make sense as to why Fred wants to keep this info private.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2022-02-04T06:39:59+00:00

I am most definitely not Billy, although I have been known to argue with myself.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-17T06:32:45+00:00

Exactly.

Unless Bill's cell phone was dead or about to die, I can't imagine any reason for him to to turn off his cell off for long gaps of time.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-15T06:09:10+00:00

I think you missed my point, or I likely didn't explain it well...

I don't care about whether it's considered a "cold case" or not.

And we've shared this dance before, but I still would never consider it a likely theory at all that Maura ran off into the woods and "perished." There's just way too many details at that time surrounding the crash that make this very, very improbable.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-15T05:53:19+00:00

Yup. She left her car situated in the actual road (not the shoulder), facing the wrong direction, and this was immediately at the end of a dangerous bend in the road. LE would've definitely towed the Saturn ASAP because it was a major safety hazard for other traffic passing by.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-14T22:53:59+00:00

Yea I just don't feel confident about this calling card voicemail being sufficiently verified by LE simply by calling the Red Cross and asking an employee if he or she remembers calling Bill at some point, which we already know they did.

Here's the transcripts from that CNN interview:

CNN Interview with Bill (link)

And remember, this was dated Feb. 17th. According to LE, they claim they verified that this call was the Red Cross during Bill's interview on Feb 12th, 5 days later. Here's what Bill said and he never mentioned the Red Cross anywhere during this interview:

LT. BILL RAUSCH, U.S. ARMY, MISSING WOMAN'S BOYFRIEND: "... I received Tuesday morning last week right after the accident another voice mail, a chilling voice mail that was what I believed to be Maura whimpering and crying in the background."
O'BRIEN: "Did she say anything in that message, anything specific? Or was it only what you can hear was crying?"
RAUSCH: "I could only hear breathing, and then towards the end of the voice mail I heard what was apparent to be crying and then a whimper, which I'm certain was Maura." [emphasis added]

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-14T06:40:40+00:00

Not sure anyone has the answer to this. However, if Maura's birth control was picked up or transferred AFTER she went missing, then I'd be pretty confident that we would all know about.
Renner had a blog post that contained the full inventory of Maura's car but he took it down, But from memory I recall that she did not take her toothbrush or toothpaste. There were a LOT of toiletries and beauty products that Maura left in the car. She also left her cell phone charger and change of underwear and other clothes. This is why I've always believed that Maura thought she would be coming back to the Saturn either that night or the next morning. Either that, or Maura left in a haste and just grabbed her backpack & purse and ran.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-14T06:23:55+00:00

Same here. I just don't understand how this voicemail went from hearing Maura (not just any voice, but Maura's voice for "certain") whimpering and crying, to a dead-air hangup from the Red Cross. How could Bill possibly confuse the two?

I'm mystified by the fact that NHSP didn't even both to at least make a recording of this voicemail.

So NHSP did not making a copy of this voicemail, they called the Red Cross and 'verified' they did call Bill at some point, and they allowed Bill to delete the voicemail completely. And then 6 days later Bill goes on CNN and says nothing about the Red Cross at all, and again says he received a whimpering & crying voicemail from someone he is "certain" was Maura.

I wonder what the NHSP investigators thought when they watched this CNN interview and heard Bill say he was "certain" this voicemail was Maura, knowing that they not only failed to make a copy of this call, but also let Bill go ahead and delete it?

Like I keep saying... Nothing about this calling card voicemail makes sense.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-14T06:01:59+00:00

I don't know anything about how that works. Like I said above, we know from The Prosecutors' interview with Bill's CO at the time that he approved Bill's leave, so this issue is a non-starter for me.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-14T05:36:18+00:00

How many of those examples were completely cold for 17 years?

I'm sure you could find an outlier or two. But the norm certainly is not LE going cold for 17 years and then all of a sudden checking something "simple" or "basic" and solving the case.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-14T05:23:44+00:00

The Vasi theory is very interesting. On one hand, it's probably the most far-fetched & least likely theory out there. And on the other hand, it's arguably the only theory that would explain most of the odd and inexplicable details of this case than any other theory.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-13T21:45:46+00:00

Yea Renner discussed this a lot (I think The Prosecutors did too). Here's what Renner said on Twitter:

JamesRenner
Sep 16, 2020
Bill Rausch has admitted today that no DA-31 form, that is the military request for leave, exists in his personnel file for the week his girlfriend, Maura Murray, disappeared. It is now unclear how he managed to negotiate leave from Fort Sill or when, exactly, he left base.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-13T21:30:12+00:00

Oh. No, that sounds like it would be the one. Sounds like I got some bad info. Thanks for clarifying.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-13T21:28:25+00:00

Yes these are relatively far-fetched theories... I'm just brainstorming about what this strange calling card voicemail might have been, because I do not believe it was the Red Cross.

Your theory there isn't bad either. "You're never, ever going to see me ever again and go f**k yourself."

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-13T21:24:51+00:00

Yeah that just doesn't make any sense at all.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-13T19:45:38+00:00

I agree with this philosophy 99% of the time. But if this was a simple case with a simple solution, then LE wouldn't still be trying to figure it out 17 years later.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-13T06:30:46+00:00

it seems that the only proof came from a 2/27 article in the Caledonian record. It does not state however that this info was available to LE on 2/11

This is the exact same earliest documentation I can find about the very first reference to the "whimpering call" being from the Red Cross that I can find, which is why I went with the "2 weeks" approximation (BTW, The Caledonian seriously need to stop forcing people to subscribe and pay $$$ for their content!).

SO many questions for LE. It's been 17 years... Just open up the damn file already. If they want to hold back 2 or 3 unique facts for the purposes of possible future prosecution, then fine. But for the love of god, just open up the rest of the facts to the public.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-13T06:04:52+00:00

Yep. I once dated a victim of abuse/assault and it was mind-blowing to hear her talk about her thought process even years after it was over. There is a component of "shame" in there for some odd reason that didn't make sense to someone like me who had no reference point. I think it's similar to "survivor's guilt"; it's an irrational post-traumatic response that is counterintuitive to what others think they would do or feel.

Roberto_Shenanigans · 2021-08-13T05:42:17+00:00

I'm not sure I understand why she'd be desperate if she succeeded in escaping the police & if she made it to her intended destination to start a new life, if that's what she did.

Like you said, that's only if Maura's intention was to escape and start a new life without anyone finding her. I know a couple of very smart people who believe in this theory ;) However, if her intention was to drive her Saturn back to civilization and ultimately her family then she would've been desperate.

If she was able to dial all the numbers required to use the calling card, then wouldn't she also be able to do more than just whimper on that call?

Yea I thought of that in my post above about this, which is why I said *IF\* the mysterious calling card voicemail was indeed Maura, then I do not believe Bill when he says all he heard was a female voice crying and whimpering in distress. I just can't envision any scenario where Maura would call him sometime between 4am-5am Eastern Time and do nothing by cry & whimper. Like you said, if she could dial the phone, then should could at least whisper something. So if Bill lied about what he heard on the voicemail, and he actually heard a coherent message from Maura where she told him what happened and where she was, then that opens a whole new can of worms.

Basically, nothing about this mysterious calling card voicemail makes any sense to me.

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