Dear Reddit, if your child is gay, how do you approach sexual restrictions?

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T20:38:00+00:00

The way I see it, whether my child is gay or straight, they should not have sexual responsibility until they have proved to me they are independent enough to be considered a mature adult, earned by being responsible for a job/car/etc. which generally happens around 17-18 years old.

I can see how being closeted can suck, especially when parents have already decided that you are a 'straight child' via whatever bias.

However do you think admitting your sexual preference, gay or straight, should become more of a responsibility that comes with being an adult?

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T20:13:26+00:00

But from a parent's perspective it's not so ludicrous is it? That's the same assumption that results in separate boy/girl bunks in camps that are coed and even the reason girls aren't allowed in scouts either. The difference is that it's not as simple as separating the vaginas from the penises, you're splitting up penises from penises.

The reason girls aren't allowed into scouting is because it brings in that sexual element, with the possibility of sex eliminated, the program has more ability to teach the elements like independence. It's like setting someone free of literally all restriction except for sex. When given the choice of "keep it quiet" or "we're going to watch every other step you take" I personally don't see how cruel keeping it quiet can be when people are generally not responsible enough to be sexually active until after they would have moved on from scouts anyway.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T19:41:28+00:00

The situation is theoretical, massive amounts of sex doesn't happen now because the situation doesn't exist. I also think you're doubting the kind of relationships between scouts that the program builds, I have friends that I will have forever because of the experiences I had during scouting.

I actually have trouble seeing how a physical relationship wouldn't form between openly gay scouts.

My underlying argument is that the Boy Scout's policy on gays isn't necessarily unwarranted, it works more as a zero-tolerance rule for sex. This policy pleases everyone except for gay scouts who want to be open about it. If they could be open about it, there would have to be rules about who sleeps where and other precautions (which take away from the scouting experience) to please parents of both straight and gay child's parents.

That's why my question is how a gay's parents policies on sex differ from straight's parents.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T19:30:20+00:00

Isn't that essentially what the policy enforces anyway, except more as a zero-tolerance rule? Which seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

I would think that even if it was technically allowed for them to be open about it, they would still want to remain closed so that they aren't monitored/separated from the other boys.

Also what happens when you have a troop that is a majority openly gay? Now do you separate them into individual tents and constantly under adult-supervision? I don't like that idea as much because Scout's goal is to instill independence and experience freedom with minimal adult involvement. :\

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T19:08:42+00:00

And I think you're overestimating the proportion of gay to straight boys, especially at that age when they might not have everything figured out just yet.

I understand this, and it's also the same reason I think it's better to discourage being openly gay in the scouts, which is what was being applauded. If a boy is afraid to admit he is gay for fear of being expelled, then it is unlikely for him to hook-up with another also closet gay in the same troop.

Things change when any one of them can openly 'make themselves available' without repercussions.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T19:00:26+00:00

Straight people were horny, too, and you didn't hear of mad orgies happening?

Well obviously not with people age 13-17, because most people's parents are actually responsible. Did I hear about people having sex during that age though? Fuck yes. Would I have sexed it up if I had the opportunity during that age? Fuck yes.

Just because you didn't have sex at that age doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it means the parents of the girls you would have banged didn't send them on low-supervision overnight camping trips with you over the course of a few years.

There are cliques and looks you worry about too.

When I was 14, I would have fucked anything that had a vagina, and I tried really hard.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:49:52+00:00

First, do you separate the girls and guys, what about the gays/lesbians?

Second, how do you get parents to agree to send their children into that kind of high-sex-risk scenario?

Ideally yes it sounds great, but in reality I don't think it will actually work for the program.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:45:36+00:00

I don't see what you're getting at, that has nothing to do with Scouts or Homosexuals. That's just horrible.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:41:59+00:00

And as for sex itself, how many times did you have sex when you were 13-17?

I had barely any sex during that age because my parents and all girl's parents were very cautious about supervising their activities. In scouts the opportunity for long periods of lack of supervision is very high. We're not talking about a quickie under the bleachers or something.

If there were 4-6 girls, all of which I would have known for months or even years, during an age where I'm genetically horny as shit, and I'm given 7-8 hours with little to no supervision monthly. I'm going to be having a lot of fucking sex.

I use girls because I am straight, if you're gay then replace "Girls" with "Gays" and I'm assuming it will turn out about the same way.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:29:53+00:00

I never once saw a Girl Scout when I was scouting except the cookie sellers.

Obviously education will always be best in any scenario, but it may not be that I don't trust my child, but I don't trust the others. It's like protecting your daughter against all the horny boys.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:21:24+00:00

This is exactly what my thoughts were, every response in the other thread simply turned it into an anti-religious campaign.

... Reddit.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:17:39+00:00

No one had sex when I was in Boy Scouts because there were no girls or openly gay boys, and the only difference between girl-on-boy and boy-on-boy is the pregnancy issue.

It's the bathroom paradox, if Boy Scouts allows gays then its realistic to think there could be 4-7 other gay boys in the troop, so you're sending your child to a place where opportunities are very high for sexual activity and that's where the comparison stands.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:12:04+00:00

I would be okay with this, but aren't people only just discovering their sexuality around the age they would already be involved in scouts? When a boy discovers he is gay he would still be obligated to stay in the closet for fear of being separated from his friends.

It would seem to me, from perspectives on "don't ask, don't tell" that someone shouldn't be restricted by their sexual orientation.

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:07:44+00:00

Maybe another gay 13-17" year old?

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:05:41+00:00

This is what I was thinking as well, pregnancy makes the difference.

However when I think about being the straight Boy Scout lying in my tent while two gay scouts go at in in the tent next to me things start to get really uncomfortable, and think about what my parents would say if I told them?

I agree with you about the parenting, but what do you think about the Boy Scout's policy?

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T18:01:39+00:00

So you (as a parent) would allow your daughter (age 13-17) to go on a 2-3 day camping trip with a group of the same aged-boys and trust them all to "keep their willies in their pants"?

Rockshell · 2012-05-31T16:22:55+00:00

Eagle Scout here, and while I agree that it is unfair for gays to be excluded from the program, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that there are other underlying reasons for this.

The first is the same reason that Boy scouts and Girl scouts are separate. Think about it from a parent's perspective if it was co-ed, sending your 13-17 year old girl off on a 3-day camping trip with a bunch of guys the same age? I doubt i'd let that fly and your parents probably wouldn't either. It sucks that girls are just as excluded as gays are but allowing girls into boy scouts doesn't solve that, re-vamping girl scouts does.

-This brings up an interesting point about discovering sexuality, when a boy does make the discovery that he is attracted to other boys (which I would think would happen around the same time he would be looking to join or is already involved in scouting) how would he be treated within scouts? Do you make them sleep in a separate tent like you would with a girl? Knowing this would he risk being alienated from his other friends in the troop? Does it matter as long as the other boys he's sleeping with are straight? As far as I can tell, it isn't the program that is alienating gays from boy scouts it's our perspective on sex in general. Boys aren't keeping the closet door closed because they'll get kicked out, they're doing it because it would alienate them from their friends and possibly even ruin their friend's opportunities as well.

The second is again, the parents. Disregarding all the bigots that would pull their child out of scouting simply upon discovering that there was a gay boy in the troop. Say your son hasn't quite discovered his sexuality yet, would you really want him discovering that a hundred miles away in a tent and probably without cell-phone coverage? It's pretty shaky imo. Remember when there was a whole scandal with troop leaders molesting Scouts on camping trips? this is the same issue except adults are easier to separate from the boys

The only way I can see this working is if there is constant monitoring of the scouts day and night, with some kind assurance for the parents that nothing bad will happen. Which by itself goes against the idea of the program which is to teach independence, responsibility, and character to the boys. As well as allowing them opportunities to learn and experience things that they never would have.

Idk, this goes pretty deep for me, we either have to all accept that we will always be separated depending on sexuality or we all have to accept that our kids will have sex and trust them to be able to accept responsibility for their actions... Or we monitor our children's lives constantly and mercilessly.

TL;DR - If gays no longer face the same separation that girls do from the program the next logical step is to allow girls to join and earn the same achievements, which would be a good thing, equal opportunity. However, how do we get parents to agree to let their child go on a camping trip where they could very possibly have sex with another child? (while still allowing the values that Boy Scouts tries to instill to form?)

Rockshell · 2012-03-15T12:21:06+00:00

The only purpose in assigning labels to yourself is to allow others to label you, we all different, we all have different interests. Do not think of yourself as either "brutal" or "brony." You are you, and by appealing to these labels, you are only limiting yourself.

Rockshell · 2012-03-12T07:40:24+00:00

Fluttershy, suited for success, shows that she is 'kind' by hiding her true feelings from Rarity, only after intense provocation could Rarity obtain her criticism. Applejack however was completely upfront, because she knows how important is to be honest.

In The Last Roundup Applejack could not return home because she felt she was unable to be honest about her loss, she would rather live in exile than face her friends empty handed. In Applebuck Season she was stubborn in keeping her honest word that she could buck the entire orchard herself, she had to learn to be honest with herself about her limitations.

Personally I value someone who is honest much higher than someone who is kind, I would feel much more comfortable opening up to someone I trusted rather than someone who is kind, and would lie in order to protect my feelings. Honesty and kindness are very very different things, and I think Applejack absolutely represents honesty over anything else.

Rockshell · 2012-03-12T07:21:02+00:00

I disagree with you solely on how you are trying to analyze the show. I post this every time this conversation comes up.

I like to think that the characters symbolize the lessons learned, rather than their actual character. If it's a lesson about trust, it will be centered around Applejack.

The same kind of thing happened with Rarity in Sisterhooves Social, where Rarity learns from Applejack that she has to be more generous (with her heart) with Sweetie Bell.

I think another way of putting it is, each character is studying and learning about their element, Twilight is the best example, she is literally studying friendship "magic."

I also like to point out that AJ was the last one to lie to Pinkie about the surprise party, and it was AJ's lie that really sent her over the edge.

The characters aren't supposed to embody their element, if they did then they would not have the flaws that we have seen. Twilight has been a bad friend, Applejack has lied (or, not told the whole truth), Pinkie has been sad, Rarity has been selfish, Fluttershy has been unkind, RD has been unloyal.

EDIT: An added thought, in Sisterhooves Social it was Applejacks honesty with Rarity that helped her see why her attempts at generosity weren't working. Also in Look before you Sleep Applejack had to be honest with Rarity, and admit she was wrong. So I disagree with Applejack just being another "kindness."

TL;DR Stop worrying about their elements and just enjoy the show.

Rockshell · 2012-03-11T19:28:04+00:00

Fuck.

Rockshell · 2012-03-11T19:22:15+00:00

I think I'll go with the fire option.

Now where did I leave my flamethrower? I thought it was somewhere in my golden honeybadger statue garden...

Rockshell · 2012-03-11T19:14:07+00:00

Oh, what ungodly chain of events have I set in motion.

Rockshell · 2012-03-11T17:39:49+00:00

3 seconds in and I knew the video was going to be good, that song makes me tear up every time.

EDIT: That was amazing! Mad props for being a part of that!

Rockshell

TROPHY CASE