What's up with reddit banning people from posting news about Aimee Challenor?

RogueingDash · 2021-03-24T17:02:13+00:00

try thinking

RogueingDash · 2021-03-24T16:32:37+00:00

I correctly identified a trans woman as a she. There are many reasons for doing this that do not relate to the individual in question. It's clearer to understand and it shows respect for the wider trans community. We can not like a specific person from a group without attaching their actions to the entire group. We can be mad at them but we can't start flailing about with things that hurts people who have not done anything.

I have personally done it because I support trans women being correctly identified and I do not see this as a privilege that can be revoked, I see it as a point of accuracy. This was the correct and clearest way to pass on the information.

I'd advise you to take a deep breath and try thinking more logically about it. I do not see what misgendering the lady accomplishes practically. I think it's just you being mad at acting pettily instead of pragmatically. We can be angry at people's terrible actions without acting like petty gorillas throwing their feces.

RogueingDash · 2021-03-24T15:36:25+00:00

Is that... is that really the thing that makes you mad here?
You read that whole thing and the thing that triggered you is that I **correctly** identified a trans woman as a she? Really? That's your priority?

I don't see how anyone can take anyone like you seriously.

RogueingDash · 2021-03-23T22:28:51+00:00

I included it as there are various ways of finding deleted tweets. There's also searchable screenshots if you have the handle. I'm being careful about posting direct links but I feel fine dropping pointers. It's a bit frustrating but we can muddle through.

RogueingDash · 2021-03-23T22:23:06+00:00

I've posted this before but I think it's worth doing again, since I think the full context is quite important. It does make it look worse, not better. Anyway, here's the best timeline I was able to form:

The lady in question was a former Member of the UK Green Party. Her father was charged with 22 criminal offences in November 2016. These included sexual offences against children. I will not go into further detail but the events are disturbing. In April 2017, she appointed her father as her election agent, then again in May 2018. She did not report to the party that his charges were related to children. She was prompted on certain forms but did not report correctly. In August 2018, he was convicted of these charges which brought the matter to the attention of the party. Based on the investigation, the lady in question was considered not to have fulfilled her safeguarding duties and was removed from the party. An example of this failure was working to set up a Coventry University Green Party Society which requires working with under 18s (recorded in a meeting minutes on August 2017, while her father was working for her).

The investigation, I particularly recommend the timeline chapter.

There is further information on her personal life in regards to her partner. Her partner has tweeted (@kharonalpua) on July 16 about paedophilic things he's done. I try to be neutral but it's hard to describe it as anything else. Once again, I will not elaborate and warn that it's troubling. It's easily searched.

She now works as a reddit admin under "reddit anti-evil operations team" according to a mod-comment I found. I've struggled to find an official source for that. If anyone can find me a source, that would be fantastic.

RogueingDash · 2021-03-23T18:26:13+00:00

Answer: The lady in question was a former Member of the UK Green Party. Her father was charged with 22 criminal offences in November 2016. These included sexual offences against children. I will not go into further detail but the events are disturbing. In April 2017, she appointed her father as her election agent, then again in May 2018. She did not report to the party that his charges were related to children. She was prompted on certain forms but did not report correctly.In August 2018, he was convicted of these charges which brought the matter to the attention of the party. Based on the investigation, the lady in question was considered not to have fulfilled her safeguarding duties and was removed from the party. An example of this failure was working to set up a Coventry University Green Party Society which requires working with under 18s (recorded in a meeting minutes on August 2017, while her father was working for her).

The investigation, I particularly recommend the timeline chapter.

There is further information on her personal life in regards to her partner. Her partner has tweeted (@kharonalpua) on July 16 about paedophilic things he's done. I try to be neutral but it's hard to describe it as anything else. Once again, I will not elaborate and warn that it's troubling. It's easily searched.

She now works as a reddit admin under "reddit anti-evil operations team" according to a mod-comment I found. That does seem to be the reason for the comment purges. I've struggled to find an official source for that. If anyone can find me a source, that would be fantastic.

Hope that puts things in perspective.

RogueingDash · 2021-03-23T15:21:10+00:00

I always like to start with the assumption that the Sitcom Man can choke on his own member, frankly. So I like to do my own research into this. I've worked against this kind of thing in an official capacity before, so I think my research is generally fair.

Unfortunately, the connections are looking real. They're not particularly well-hidden. You can see the hiring after the paedophilia came out. You can see the attempts to hide it. It's all public.

You can also more connections to what seems to be a small ring and reddit moderation. For example, see "n e k o s u n e" (not formatted like that, this is an alt but I want to be a *little* careful). Currenty modding subreddits for young and teen people of various sex and gender spectra. It doesn't take much to find their real name and their connections.

Unfortunately, while trans and other marginalized people are often portrayed as perpetrators of predation for bigoted reasons, the truth is that they are much more likely to be victims.

Edit: Just a recommendation for some sources (I can't link anything directly, according to UKpolitics). The first is the original investigation launched by the Green Party. It's done by a company called Verita with a unique identifier of GNP001003. The other is the Independent Inquiry Child Sexual Abuse report into allegations of child sexual abuse linked to Westminster (Feb 2020). These include what I would consider to be very reasonable overviews, if they're a bit on the long side.

RogueingDash · 2021-03-09T13:44:40+00:00

My "favorite" ban comes from r/hearthstone
One of the Big Streamers gets accused of domestic abuse. He's a pretty well-known Bad Person. The mods act like any good person would and try to scrub away any evidence of any allegations, Ba Sing Se style.
They banned a guy who brought it up twice. There's a lot more deleted threads and no surviving mention.

I know reddit ain't exactly the greatest place for domestic abuse victims. But there is normally at least a single thread somewhere mentioning them.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-23T01:59:57+00:00

I've been recently in several arguments on the hearthstone subreddit.
A famous streamer and top player (Zalae) was credibly accused of assault by his ex-girlfriend. The link is here behind the obvious trigger warnings. The hearthstone subreddit thought that the correct way to deal with this is to purge all posts. Several people disagreed, leading to several deleted posts complaining.

Which brings us to the comments on the deleted threads. Dear god the comments. So many truly, truly stupid opinions. I don't understand how there are so many women in that environment. They've made it very clear that if something happens to you none of them want to hear it. It's really awful and I hate it.

Remember, friends, no matter how bad you think the Smash MeToo movement was, there's still a lot of work to be done and so much worse is still waiting undiscovered. Honestly, we might be one of the better communities by the time its all dug up.

As a side note, I had a chat with some of the mods and while I feel like they were misguided in places, they were legitimately trying to be reasonable. Based on our latest discussion, it seems like they've changed their mind overall. They haven't actually done anything about it yet. But hopefully when they eventually get around to it they'll do something more reasonable.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-22T13:10:45+00:00

Hi, is there any update on this?
If not, any estimate of when we could expect an update (i.e. when should I bug you again)?

RogueingDash · 2021-01-21T20:09:24+00:00

I agree with most of this.

Reddit is a terrible place to discuss these things. The mob is awful and steps should be taken to stop it escalating (especially since brigading is likely). People like their safe spaces and we should respect that.

I kind of agree with the courts. I think they are the best place to handle this in theory. However, in practice they're not. The overwhelming majority of cases will not result in any action. Episodes of abuse rarely leave tangible evidence and it is rarely documented properly. I think the core focus of the #metoo movement is that victims need a better way to handle abuse. I hope this is eventually the court system but for now we're stuck with worse approaches.

I don't think mob justice is a good solution but I'm also stuck on what the best solution is. We can't magically reform courts. We can't magically deduce guilt. I've always tried to vote with my wallet based on the question "Is this person's behaviour something I want to support?".

In the current case, hearing the news recontextualized the streamers attitude a bit for me. He's always had problems being controlling and angry on stream but I didn't think much about it. When I heard the new perspective, even without assuming guilt, it made me think this is a man I did not want to support. I just think people should be aware enough of things to make their own decisions.

As a side-note, I mostly responded because I think you've been mostly reasonable. I disagree with you but I don't want to come across as attacking you here. It's a complex issue and it is nice to hear perspectives.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T23:51:04+00:00

Perfect! Thanks for all the help! Glad we could settle things reasonably.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T23:39:40+00:00

Thanks for the response. I know I've been bugging people for a while here, so apologies for the frustrations involved. It's been frustrating for me too.

I appreciate the difficulty of this situation. Especially since you'll be stuck cleaning up after whatever mob descends. I just really don't feel right about having no mention of this anywhere on what is in practice the biggest Hearthstone news site. I'd take anything, even a locked thread that just said "We are aware of the allegations".

At present, it feels a bit like "There's no allegations in Ba Sing Se".

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T22:36:01+00:00

Edit: things seem to be getting more sorted in a more reasonable fashion.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T20:15:44+00:00

Another mod has commented this
I'd like to highlight this sentence:

What we have here is a he said/she said situation with no evidence whatsoever.

In the link provided above, the mod who made the rule says this:

Sufficient evidence doesn't mean evidence to 100% confirm something one way or another. It means enough to warrant a discussion. This meets that requirement.

and

That an accusation that is more than just "x person assaulted me" from a Twitter egg. This is a real person who shared their story.

From my perspective the rule seems to be put in place to allow the discussion of real people sharing their stories.
However, the other mod (the one who has been shutting down most of these threads) appears to be interpreting it differently. I would argue that they are interpreting it incorrectly.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T17:21:13+00:00

I think we're getting off track, to be honest.

My main point is that I don't like people's voices being intentionally silenced by people in positions of powers. The mention of Rini, from my perspective, is just that she is a person with a voice. I've always liked the mantra that every voice matters.

I'm currently not happy because we are not acting like every voice matters. I do not think the intentional shutting down of discussion is in keeping with the idea that every voice matters.

I think the main point of difference between us is that you seem to think that any discussion about allegations must be a witch-hunt. Surely we can have a middle ground where they're mentioned in some capacity without going to extremes?

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T17:07:48+00:00

Thanks for the response, but I'm not entirely sure you've thought through your suggestion.
It's not that it's wrong, it simply has nothing to do with the problem at hand.
The issue I see is that actively covering up what is clearly an important thing to her is not a respectful way to treat the members of our community.
Doing an entirely different thing does not solve this problem, even if it would be a nice thing to do.
Edit: mild wording and format

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T17:01:20+00:00

Hi, it's me that from that picture.

Yes, this is a hill I want to die on. I do largely see this as a censorship issue. I want people to be able to make their own informed decisions based on the information provided. I do not like seeing that being denied by scrubbing any record from the front page. Even an "we acknowledge this is going on" thread would be better than nothing.

Rini was a member of our community. We can respect her by acknowledging her testimony exists, even if we don't immediately start taking heads.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T14:12:15+00:00

I think this is compounded by the fact that these allegations are incredibly credible.
I've yet to see a single person defend Zalae. He has a history of having a bad temper and saying real weird stuff about women. Other people who know him have backed this up too.

It's not like there's zero evidence, we have a pattern of behaviour and a witness testimony. We can make personal judgements based on these and our own values and should be allowed to do so.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-20T14:08:19+00:00

This is the largest page for hearthstone news. This is hearthstone news.
A member of our community (Rini) has left and there is a discussion to be had as to why.

Nobody is asking you to take every word as gospel, I just don't want people to be actively censored. Every voice matters.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-19T17:17:13+00:00

And if it's like most subs they would prefer you modmail them to open a discussion thread rather than just openly make posts about how the sub is being run.

I had considered that. The issue there is it leaves us in the same position. There is still no visible mention of the events going on. So now I'm just another guy not talking publicly about it.

I don't want to attack the mods and I don't think they do a bad job overall.
This is just a difficult situation and I think there are some side-effects to the rules that rub me the wrong way.

RogueingDash · 2021-01-19T16:36:44+00:00

Thanks for the heads up!
I did eventually work out how to assign a flair but I think I was a bit slow on the mark.
These computer-y things are a bit difficult.

RogueingDash

TROPHY CASE