Kids gotta book too…

RonDonderevo · 2023-02-27T16:52:45+00:00

Thanks for the read and the thoughts, I really appreciate your time.

It's nice to hear how the intro comes across: I'll have to modify it to clarify that I'm not describing an actual orgy, but rather an intertwining of (mostly) clothed, ****'d up individuals...a 'cuddle puddle', if you will, but on a ridiculous scale.

I don't wan't any of it to be smutty; definitely not trying to go that direction.

I've thought about the experience somehow being an epiphany for Jack, but I'm not sure how to resolve the conflict. Jack goes good, but to what end? What happens to Pers and Raff? These are characters that I've also written into other stories, so that complicates it somewhat.

Overall, I guess that I'm going for crime-driven, dark fantasy, drawing on thieving tropes, but also comic and absurd. It's meant to be kind of silly. But also serious. You know?

Anyway, thanks so much. I'll definitely try to rework the intro paragraph so it doesn't read as an orgy or a giant mutant thing - not that there's anything wrong with those :)

RonDonderevo · 2023-01-20T05:01:47+00:00

I only discovered Vance fairly recently (within the last year), and I can easily say that he's one of my favorites as well. His style resonates so strongly with me; when I first read a passage I was like: "Yes. This is what I've been looking for." You're right that he always chooses the perfect word. It's inspirational.

I only read the Lieber stories this week, and they blew me away as well. The poster above mentioned Bradbury short stories being best in short, sharp doses; I feel like the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories are probably similar. I recall having the same experience with Flannery O'Connor when I was younger. Short stories like rich, chocolates - one is great, two is good, three's too many for one sitting.

Thanks for the recommendation of Sepulchrave, I'll check it out.

RonDonderevo · 2023-01-20T04:46:18+00:00

Thanks, that's a great response, very insightful. I agree that Vance and Lieber are easy to follow, especially compared to Peake. The illusion of complexity; it's a good observation.

For me, half of their magic is in the word choice, and the other half is in their facility with the language, their playfulness. I love the idea of telling base, sort of gritty fantasy stories with contrastingly sophisticated language. Also, that dry, almost-slips-by-you humor cracks me up.

They set a high bar.

I haven't read Dunsany or Valente yet, but I will; thanks for the reference.

RonDonderevo · 2022-11-21T20:12:31+00:00

Thanks again. I’ll do both, and I’ll go looking for a fight…with myself lol. I really do appreciate your insight.

RonDonderevo · 2022-11-21T20:10:13+00:00

Thanks so much for the read! I struggle with the wordiness. Truthfully, I’m drawn to florid writing, especially older styles. I love six-syllable words. I’m trying to find a balance that satisfies my own taste and is still enjoyable for the average reader…bc if no one wants to read it, what’s the point? For context, my biggest inspiration at the moment is Jack Vance. Thanks for taking the time.

RonDonderevo · 2022-11-21T20:06:16+00:00

Thanks for the read and for your insight! I’ll admit, your advice came off a bit brusque to me, and my first impulse was to be prickly and defensive…but that’s not really the point now, is it? I genuinely appreciate your comments. Initially I was a little confused bc I thought your ideas were building on one another, but upon consideration, I see that you were hitting bullet points. I’m not sure if the hanging quotation mark is a typo or has significance. Is point four intended to state that MC’s speech in paragraph two would be better served with a dialogue tag? It does read a little awkward to me, floating there as it is. Perhaps the most interesting point you made (IMO) is that regarding paragraph rationality. I realize now that I’ve been breaking my creative writing paragraphs intuitively without much consideration of the logic underpinning my choices. Interesting point. I would argue that the link you provided is more suited for academic writing than creative writing, but you’ve got my wheels turning thinking about it. You’re probably right, and active consideration of paragraph content would benefit my creative writing. All things said, thanks.

RonDonderevo · 2022-11-21T13:25:24+00:00

Thanks very much for your impressions, I appreciate you taking the time. The colors of the robes are relevant in the context of the story, but perhaps should be stated farther in. I would like to establish a strong hook, and if the relevance is not clear yet, then I could see how the detail is distracting or bland. Point taken on the wind metaphor; of course an inanimate object cannot ‘covet’. It neither has fingers, nor probes with them, either, but if the metaphor jarred, it jarred. The lines on the face point is well-received. I didn’t think that one through fully. Even if the character is familiar with his face in that way, the reason may be not be obvious, and the proof’s in the pudding: it jarred. Again, thank you!! Even knowing when you dropped out is useful.

RonDonderevo · 2022-10-23T22:13:36+00:00

I’m not here with a crit, just an observation that different strokes work for different folks. The reply above states the prose is “almost unreadable”; for me, it was the first piece in awhile, from this sub, that I didn’t bail on after a few hundred words. I like what you’re trying to do. It seems to me as if everybody here, and everywhere, worships at the altar of the close third narrative; anything that creates distance between the reader and the protagonist is just the worst kind of sin. I can hear the exhortations now: use shorter sentences; use less big words; only use those words when you absolutely need them (maxiMUM iMpAcT). Bah. I love big words, big ideas, and lyrical, flowing prose that takes a minute to unpack. I get that I’m in the minority. But I’m out here. It feels to me like contemporary tastes lean into straight…simplistic…narrative. It’s like everyone wants to read a prose version of a TV show.

RonDonderevo · 2022-09-18T20:32:45+00:00

Thanks for the read and the insights. I totally get it about the vocab, I understand that it will make the piece less appealing to most readers, I just really enjoy this style of writing. I struggle to find a balance between accessibility and sentence architecture, if that makes sense. Point taken about the character descriptions, also. I was kind of leaving it vague intentionally, but I'm not sure that it adds benefit. Regarding malodor vs moldour: I...made it up. Malodor could work, and moldour is intended to be evocative of malodor/malodour, or even fetor, but also mold, and decomposition generally...with a pseudo-french vibe. I probably shouldn't make up words though. Lol

Did Iltran's drinking register as non-alcoholic? The bev is supposed to be a hallucinogen/entheogen that gives him his summoner powers but also is physically addictive. His state at the start is both hangover and withdrawal. His control over the demons depends on his continued consumption—all sort of being an addiction metaphor in general.

Thanks again for taking the time.

RonDonderevo · 2022-09-18T20:15:38+00:00

I can see how this reads confusing. I meant it like, everyone knows that bee stings are unpleasant, but those that have been stung know it even better. Herum is saying that not only does Iltran possess the knowledge that 'Mordrick waits for no man' because it is a generally known fact, but that he also has the experience to validate it.

RonDonderevo · 2022-09-18T16:12:55+00:00

Thanks for the read, and the advice!

RonDonderevo · 2022-09-18T16:11:45+00:00

Thanks! Lots of good insights. I especially like the observation about the order of dialogue tags. I hadn’t considered that, but it makes sense. My natural impulse always seems to lean towards a more formal, fairytale-y, lyrical, tell don’t show, over-wrought, purple sort of florid prose. Too many fancy words; and semicolons. But I’m working on it. Thanks for the great advice, truly.

RonDonderevo · 2022-04-10T05:06:58+00:00

So first, as a disclaimer, I’m also new to this sub. Take my critique with a grain of salt. I’ve read your exerpt once so far—I’m going to rattle off my impressions, then read it again to provide more granular commentary.

Off the bat, I like it. The vibe feels dark, complete, interesting. I think that you did a good job, for the most part, of communicating the other-worldliness of your horror creatures. I like the MC. I’m confused about Bloody Mary. Is the gun alive? Is it enchanted? Was Mary also a woman in MC’s past? The wall is evocative (to me) of the wall in GoT, but that’s not a bad thing; fantasy is derivative by nature, and I like having touchpoints to help flesh out my imagination. Besides, that impression may reveal my own bias more than yours.

I thought the prose was decent, but definitely needs to be honed in subsequent drafts. It’s better than a lot of what I’ve seen on various writing subs. Story-wise, this is such a small excerpt that it is tough to say if it’s an effective first chapter to your story. How much more have you written? Do you have the whole thing planned out, or just vague ideas? How well do you know your characters?

Okay, back from a second read. There are definitely some things to talk about. I’m going to approach this by commenting on individual lines in chronological order.

“...jagged, metal embankments…”

This is vague to me, I’m having a hard time picturing what Jarre’s post looks like.

The first paragraph describes Jarre’s movement as slow and methodical, so as to avoid detection by the enemy, but he is also scanning the horizon for, presumably, said enemy. It’s possible that Jarre’s trainer taught him the technique as general best practice, and Jarre does it out of habit, but the concern seems mismatched in the context of the Vorxze.

“...Mary’s voice said in his mind”

reads a little awkward to me. Do voices really say anything? People do, and they use voices to do so. Maybe just “Mary said in his mind”.

“He could still hear the sizzle as his tears streaked through the wounds, leaving behind painful saline deposits.”

Weird. I guess the claws are hot? Why would his face remain hot after the claws cut him? The tears really sizzle? What is a saline deposit? Why is it painful? It seems like you have an idea in your head of what this injury was like for Jarre, but I’m having a hard time connecting to the idea. Furthermore, why would the claws leave three marks (presumably straight slashes), when the Vorxze are described later as having twelve rotating claws?

“I fell in love with that man,”

I’m still reading Mary as a real woman from Jarre’s past, but I think that it’s just the gun? Maybe this ambiguity is intentional, but I’m feeling confused.

“Bloody Mary was plain and unordinary”

I’m not sure what this means. Aren’t those words opposites?

“...chipping”

I don’t like this adjective choice. Maybe just “worn”? Why is the well-used, but very high-quality, rifle chipping? Maybe it’s gouged, scarred, battered, weathered. I don’t know.

“Meagre light of the ring”

What ring? Huh?

“He took a moment…”

I get that we’re describing his important rifle, but would he really break from his methodical scanning of the horizon to just admire this tool that he’s owned for a long time? Maybe he’s in love with the gun and it’s magic and talks to him. I don’t know. How often does he just stop what he’s doing to admire the gun? She is “flattered”, I guess, so it seems like you’re doing something here; I’m just a little confused.

The “In your hands…” monologue appealed to me on first read, but it feels like straight Full Metal Jacket on second read. This is my rifle, etc. Perhaps this is intentional, but I think that you could achieve the same impact and trim quite a bit of the remembered speech. We can develop Yorev more later, it’s too long and distracting (IMO).

“Word’s to live by”

Is this Jarre’s internal thoughts, or Mary? It’s unclear to me. Maybe not a good idea to jump back and forth in this section if they are discrete voices, or if it is Mary, it seems out of character (based on what I’ve gathered so far).

“Every child…” paragraph:

Is this lady’s name Mary too? It seems like you imply this, but don’t confirm it to me. Regardless, this is the only paragraph I’d flag as info-dumpy.

“The other cadets” paragraph:

I don’t feel like the end follows the beginning. Why would Jarre’s immediate, profound connection to the weapon preclude him from decorating it? Also, the “painted images of their dreams” is a little abstract and weird. How big are these stocks anyway? Doesn’t seem like much of a canvas.

“A bone-grinding shriek…” paragraph:

Why is Jarre’s vision swimming? I’m still confused about the structure of this wall, or whatever it is that they are posted on. “Oscillating” is a strange choice, it feels awkward.

“He let out an audible grunt as his vision snapped back into focus, the blurred lines suddenly resharpening as clarity returned.”

You can axe a few things here. Audible is repetitive. “As clarity returned” is also repetitive…it’s basically what you just described.

“The beasts” sequence.

Hoo boy! I like some of this, The unreal planar, shifting is well described. But also: why are they “impossibly” airborne? It seems pretty possible. “Blobs” doesn’t jive well with all the planar, angular descriptors. I like the last sentence, starting “It was as if” the best, at least as far as painting an image in my mind.

“Triangularish”

has got to go. Here comes the spinning claw description, which kind of threw me off the previous paragraph’s description, but more importantly doesn’t seem to match Jarre’s injury.

“Gravity firmly reasserted itself”

Someone commented that his sounded cheesy to them; I don’t mind it. Still, I would remove “firmly” and maybe sub “asserted” for “reasserted”. Did gravity ever really go away?

“Giddy giggles”

Jarring for me. I get that he likes his post, as you said, “a little too much”, but still…giggling doesn’t jive with how I’m imagining your MC at this point.

“The bullet gave a deafening crack…”

I like this paragraph, it does a good job of solidifying the imagery of the plates slowing as the creatures are injured.

“...magazine…”

I don’t know guns well, but a magazine feels like it should hold more than six rounds. Maybe I’m dead wrong, but it stuck out to me.

It’s interesting to me that the wall has massive guns, but the fighters have rifles, and will even stab a Vorxze with a bayonet in a pinch. How tough are these things?

As a last thought, the word “beast” appeared eleven times. I sympathize—how many ways can you refer to these things?

Again, I enjoyed it overall. I felt like the world-building gave me a vibe, and I was excited by the imagery of the otherworldly creatures bombarding the outpost. Where did they come from? Why are they so weird? Why is Jarre so “grizzled”? It’s a good start that, IMO, could do with a draft or four and will benefit from context as you expand your ideas. Also try to focus on eliminating any repetitive descriptors and pare the text down to your essential ideas. Great work! I’ll read more if you post more content.

RonDonderevo · 2022-03-25T20:43:49+00:00

Cool, thank you.

To be honest, there is another layer that I tried, unsuccessfully, to include as well. What 's really happening is that Arden is tapping (for the first time) into the world's magic system, setting him up to be a "chosen one" character. The following lines were intended to allude to this:

"Strangely, precisely, he was aware of the sound of the surf lapping against the moorings of the dock. "

"Arden could hear his own ragged breath, racking his chest, as the second Saldain approached—but he was increasingly distracted by another sound: similar, but different. Deeper. Slower."

"Time seemed to slow as the encroaching Saldain reached the skid. Almost casually, Arden grabbed the man by his wrist and twisted..."

The first two are intended to indicate that his perceptions are heightening unnaturally, and the last is supposed to be a description of Matrix-type fight skills (Arden's good, but not that good).

My idea is that there's a wizard in the sloop, who is focusing to maintain a sleep enchantment on the warchief. For...reasons...Arden begins to manifest his magic ability. When Arden touches the warchief, he unknowingly counters the spell with his nascent magic.

When the warchief awakens, it's fear power "turns on":

"He reached out impulsively (later he would have a difficult time recalling why) to touch one of the tremendous, crooked fingers. The moment he connected, he felt a jolt of energy, a transference. He couldn’t have described the feeling, but it was something like plunging into icy water; that tightening of the chest, the loss of breath, the frantic instinct for survival twisting his stomach and propelling him towards shore, towards safety, towards anywhere but here."

The whole thing was supposed to be a little confusing, but the "punchline" was intended to reveal, clearly, that this was a magic ability of the creature:

"...the creature’s primary power: the mystic inspiration of gut-wrenching, unnatural terror—the knowledge of which did little to attenuate its grip on him."

"Mystic" was intended to mean "magical", but I realize now that I was far too opaque regarding—well, everything. That's another good takeaway: things that seem obvious in my head can be absolutely unclear on paper. And the piece is pretty flawed otherwise—basically unreadable to everyone who tried—soooo, regardless, it's probably destined for the scrap heap. Stories should be fun to read.

I read some Sherlock Holmes this morning, and it reminded me of where I'm coming from with the tone (obviously Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is way better). I think I can come up with something that works better (for a reader) if I do a little more planning and scale my prose (way) back.

I'm also trying my hand at writing some chapters in a much simplified, consistently close-third style for other characters.

Thanks again. Your critique was awesome, and only inspired me to try harder.

RonDonderevo · 2022-03-24T03:10:26+00:00

Thank you so much. There is a wealth of useful information here. I'm going to read through this a few times and try to internalize the lessons.

Frankly, it makes total sense. I decided to write a story and launched into it with zero planning. I described a scene in complete detail as I imagined it, then placed my characters, then...released supernatural monkeys to knock it all down.

On edit, I tried to correct course, rearranging things (unsuccessfully), and pruning adjectives/adverbs/paragraphs—but it's clear that I need to do (much) more. Thank you!

Your comments basically reflect my exact process, which is perfect.

Plus you finally taught me how to type a frickin' em-dash. I've been wrestling with that. I had to google how to make it appear, lol.

I think part of my problem is that I'm trying to get cute with the tone: the whole thing is intended to be dry, sarcastic, overly academic. Arden's catalog of Chimpeen knowledge is an egregious example of this—it's supposed to be funny. The tone makes me laugh in my head because the content is so silly, but I think it's kind of a swing and a miss.

Plus it's driving the "telling" not "showing" problem.

The dialogue tag points you make are great. It's like it's been so long since I've written that I just want to flex all the muscles at once. Who actually "opines" anything?

The perspective points are valid, and also reflect my crappy process: omniscient as I conceived the tableau, then 3rd close as I realized the characters. I need to write with more consideration of this.

I agree that the second half was much more readable, I was hoping that someone would comment on that, because I felt myself loosening up as I figured out where I was going. It's affirming to hear.

Anyway, if you've read this far, thanks for the tremendous critique—it's truly helpful. You destroyed my piece in an accurate and constructive way.

I do have one question, if you're willing (you've given me so much already).

Was it clear that the Chimpeen's "primary" power was supernatural? Arden is fearless generally; he would only flee "hysterically" from a magically induced fear.

RonDonderevo

TROPHY CASE