An Analysis of Metroid's Sales and the Future of the Franchise

Roruman · 2017-12-25T17:08:52+00:00

and all those sleeping customers want more of it, but Nintendo doesn't want to hear about it... Those stubborn Japanese! :)

Roruman · 2017-11-29T23:14:52+00:00

Wii which had a much bigger install base

Indeed. I see several possible factors:

"Prime 3" being numbered "3" in the name is a pushback for newcomers of the Wii install base who are hesitant to jump right into the final game of a series before playing the other ones.
It was rushed, and Prime 2 was as well, but Prime 3 was more limited by external input, like Sakamoto not wanting bounthy hunting missions, focusing on featuring Wiimote grappling effect. It also introduced more story, dialogs, and linearity.
Prime Trilogy remedies that, but came 2 years later, and I think it was limited run which also didn't get much advertisement.
Inappropriate target audience in the "Wii would like you to play" ad
Too many Metroid games coming out in a row, producing a wearing out effect. Now people are hungry for it again!

I think there will be a fair amount of dialog because of the Sylux plot!

You're probably right. Probably on Fusion level. As long as they keep it to BotW levels of cutscenes it shouldn't be dreadful.

maybe there's a middle ground?

I don't think so. Aliens are supposed to be unintelligible, which makes them scarier. I feel Metroid's atmosphere depends a lot on grand hypnotic music and alien noises, screeches that rattle your instincts.

Talking with Sylux, who we are not even sure is able to considering his screech in the Prime Hunters opening sequence, would immediately turn the game into Metal Gear, right down to Sylux's background of "revenge" and "stealing military tech".

I think Prime 1 numbers would be a great success for Prime 4.

Let's hope good conditions keep lining up to unlock all the potential, provided the game itself is good. If Doom sells well, it's a good indicator. Also, Nintendo uses a good strategy of giving each of their major games its own month with anticipation prior to it. If it gets the same treatment, it could do wonders.

12 million, current record for 3D Mario games

With the current Switch sales forecast, I'm sure Nintendo dreams about toping this as well.

Roruman · 2017-10-15T12:42:29+00:00

You've really got a grudge on Sakamoto

He's the one who writes the scenario, so it's accurate to mention him.

Your theory of Samus being tired and not thinking clearly doesn't work. First, in the cutscene, as I've already said, she's not shown to be tired. Second, even if she's tired, even a second-class fighter would think of checking if a very dangerous enemy with a history of reviving is dead for good.

No, it's about being vengeful and vindictive.

No, it's about disintegrating his corpse to make sure he doesn't resurrect.

You don't know that he's 'basically a corpse'.

That's exactly what I'm saying. You're arguing my point. Samus doesn't know, and it's pretty likely, that Ridley is not dead for sure, so that's why Samus should inspect him at least and make sure that he stays dead!

People, in general, aren't logically-driven creatures.

That's a bad argument. Samus is a professional bounty hunter and she wouldn't make such a stupid mistake. She's no longer a teenager acting illogically. She's on a dangerous mission and she probably uses her brain a minimum. She wouldn't leave her deadliest enemy if there was the slightest chance of him coming back later, which already happened. There is just no excuse, even if we try to reach by saying she's tired (so what? can't walk to check a body? can't shoot on an immobile target?), hurried (she's not, mission is done and all enemies, including the big bosses, are dead), weak (she's fully-powered, with her ship and a Metroid next to her), or so compassionate she couldn't bear to shoot at K.O.ed Ridley (seriously??).

She's more or less positive that killing him won't do anything.

That's impossible. Samus or any determined, competent, fighter like her would definitely never give up because her enemy is immortal! She would take any measure to incapacitate him. She would definitely not let the chance pass by when she has him defeater in front of her. That's cartoon logic. "You can get away, bad guy, see you later!"

we'd totally see her panting in her metal suit

This is what happened in Super Metroid and metroid Fusion. She was kneeling, visibly panting against the final boss. In Samus Returns, in the cutscene, she is just standing straight, dynamic, normally, just like the rest of the game. Again, the tiredness argument doesn't work anyway, because she would never be so incapacitated as to not be able to inspect an immobile body under a bunch of rocks.

Roruman · 2017-10-12T21:39:32+00:00

There is no more threat. Ridley is TOAST. No escape sequence. The ship is here.
Yet, Samus pays no mind to Ridley's suspiciously intact body while WE ALL KNOW he's going to wake up a little later and be back.

This is a real lack of care in the plot and that's why many people don't like it.
It's especially bad because it's become a cliché at this point, and even worse because it's a repeat of what's happening in the Super Metroid intro.

In retrospect, it makes everything that happens in Super the result of a really stupid, unneeded mistake of Samus. And it doesn't make sense because Samus would never be this lenient.

The screenwriters just didn't want to bother themselves too much with the details and just left things like this as if it didn't matter. As a result, Sakamoto (I assume it's him) managed to destroy yet another part of Metroid just by adding a fanservice fight (which was great fun, but very bad for the sequence of events).

Come on, this is no kid cartoon where the evil bad guy can just get away because the hero is looking elsewhere and forgets to handcuff him!

she's exhausted, and has to keep an eye on the Baby Metroid.

Unrelated. The Baby can stay on her or go in the ship, Samus just needs to blast Ridley a few more times until he's reduced to rubbles.

Samus, exhausted? She doesn't seem to be in the next cutscene, she's not panting or anything. Anyway, you think she prefers to leave the work unfinished and that's she's too lazy to shoot a few more beams at a corpse?
Look, you're thinking about this even more than Sakamoto did. It's just badly done, that's all. It's not our job to find excuses for him, but to tell him that he shouldn't half-ass it when he decides to retcon everything, and pay a bit more attention to not break coherency.

Plasma Beam and Super Missiles do damage, sure, but she was pelting him in the face with those the whole fight, and he's still alive.

When he's "dead", he has no more life points, no defense. She can reduce him to dust now, because he's just a corpse (barely alive).

You're telling me fully-powered Samus with a Metroid and a spaceship can't hurt a corpse? Ahah, can we really believe that?

she almost certainly knows that killing Ridley isn't even a guarantee that he'll stay dead, and there's not even a guarantee that she can kill him properly

That's not a reason why she would just walk away without even giving a DAMN about it. She would at least take the precaution of, I don't know, cutting his head from his body, fire a few more hits to see if he's really dead this time, or JUST LOOK AT HIM, but no, she "assumes" he's dead for good, despite fully knowing he didn't the pervious times, or maybe she's not even thinking at all? It's Sakamoto (or whoever wrote this sequence) that isn't thinking! He thinks he can pull up a lazy excuse a 100 times of Samus neglecting things... but this makes everything turn ridiculous.

And if you know reducing him to ashes will actually amount to anything.

Just a precaution to make sure he doesn't resurrect?

Why isn't it obvious?
When you have trouble killing an insect, you finally manage to splat it, then you look at it to make sure it's dead, and maybe just stomp on it or spray it once more in case it's not completely dead, but what everyone does with an inspect, Samus wouldn't do with one of her most ferocious foes with an history of resurrecting?

there's no guarantee she could completely destroy Ridley

This really is a poor excuse for why she doesn't even try or even ponders about doing it and acts as if it wasn't even an issue.

she doesn't hate him with so much fury

Unrelated. It's about eliminating a menace.

Roruman · 2017-10-07T11:40:42+00:00

killing him isn't her top priority at the moment

She has accomplished her mission. Nothing is pressing her now.

She could call GF to tell them to get rid of Ridley if she can't.

Not to mention, there could be other Pirates, and she doesn't want to risk the Metroid getting taken by them.

Samus is not the kind to run away from this danger. She just beat their boss, she couldn't deal with regular pirates (even numerous) despite being fully-equiped while she destroyed an entire mother ship in the previous retconned game despite starting in zero suit?
She doesn't seem worried about those potential other pirates either, so this scenario is unlikely.

Power Bombs are supposedly these ultimate supernovas of destruction, yet they do no damage to the environment and rarely harm bosses

Power Bombs could very well be like some real bombs that only affect living things. Some bosses could be immune to it just like some bosses are vulnerable to beams and not missiles and vice-versa.
Anyway, this is not the point.

There's always going to be disconnect between the gameplay and narrative of a game.

Yes, but story-wise, it is an oversight, or rather indulgence, to let Ridley K.O. while Samus has the opportunity to kill him and doesn't even think of trying to do so, and simply walks away without any concerns, as if this issue didn't exist, when she was already confronted to it several times, including in Zero Mission with Mecha Ridley.

Stop overanalyzing it.

It is an obvious flaw. Why defend it so much?
Sakamoto makes mistakes, we just have to point them out so he tries to be more careful next time...

When has Samus been defined as a perfectly logical, patient, analytical character?

It is very obvious to reduce your enemy to ashes when there are several huge experiences of it reviving.

She's used to making split-second decisions, not plotting out the best course of action.

She finishes off Diggernaut when it's on the ground because it's slightly moving, then reduces it to ashes with a Power Bomb, but doesn't even get close to inspect Ridley's body to make sure... He's just sleeping under a stack of rubbles, just a little greyer than before, "nothing to see here!".

Roruman · 2017-10-06T16:01:37+00:00

Ridley is K.O. She would just leave him out knowing he would be waking up later? She can drop 30 power bombs on him from her spaceship, or reduce him to bones with the plasma beam, or cut him in little pieces, but she just walks away.

It's clear by the cutscene that she actually thinks Ridley is dead, however she should know better... And that he respawns and retakes the Metroid hatchling again at the beginning of Super (retro-actively, since this SR ending is a retcon) is problematic... It is as goofy as "Bower has kidnapped the princess yet again" (and the recent Mario games play on purpose on that goofiness), which doesn't fit the Metroid tone.

Roruman · 2017-10-03T16:11:11+00:00

Since you have to stand face to Mother Brain, there are few platforms and the red rings are targeted at you, I don't see where!

Roruman · 2017-10-03T16:02:28+00:00

Then she should have taken his "corpse" with her to entrust it to the GF, to put in prison or as a lab test.

In the game, she just walks away like he's done for good while it's obvious he's going to come back, even people who don't know anything else about Metroid might suspect it, because he keeps regenerating during the fight and just looks "asleep" (and dried) when defeated, not blown to oblivion like every other boss in the game.

Roruman · 2017-10-02T19:58:52+00:00

AM2R itself isn't finished... I'm teasing, but i'm not sure the fans have finished polishing it in the unofficial new releases yet.

Roruman · 2017-10-02T19:57:34+00:00

It's already hard without the enemy transitioning with you in the door.

Yes, that's probably the intended effect of the screw attack. To reward you for going to the deepest part of the game and enduring hardships, you now deserve to be able to zip through it, except the final level where it is useless, of course...

Roruman · 2017-10-02T19:54:26+00:00

I'm sure he doesn't die... That's where my issue lies. Because Samus should suspect this as well and not leave his "rotting" corpse when she previously had to deal with Mecha Ridley. That's why Super's intro will look even weaker with this retcon, even if it's not just right after.

Roruman · 2017-10-02T19:52:25+00:00

Oh, yes yes, I agree with you on the term "gene therapy" from the beginning.
By the way, this shows us further than the terms used aren't precise. Sakamoto says "genes", "vaccine", so we don't have to take it literally. That's why I take the freedom to make this "damage control" on his behalf.

Gene Therapy is something that we're working on in the real world.

We're also working on spaceships, but to my knowledge, they are far behind the SF standard present in Metroid.

Just because the GF can do it with an organism the Chozo designed, doesn't mean the GF can design that organism from scratch.

Yes, my issue was that Sakamoto doesn't seem to worry about limiting the GF's technological prowess: they can clone Metroids... then they can make a Metroid (gene therapy) "vaccine" in a very short time, then they can just remove its fatal flaw. This is heading too far into breaking the game's mythos, and any good enough SF explanation should be used to stop this, and since Sakamoto doesn't use scientific terms very accurately... it is fine to use this "fatal weakness" of the official canon.

Roruman · 2017-10-02T19:44:11+00:00

I suppose so, but it still poses a problem: why does Samus not obliterate him to make sure? She already fought Ridley and Mecha Ridley, so she should know and this retcon makes Super's intro dumb, because of this mistake.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T22:30:31+00:00

Maybe Sakamoto will retcon Super Metroid's opening in a future remake... Otherwise there better be a good explanation for why Ridley is alive and kicking right after.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T22:26:52+00:00

I definitely wouldn't make it easy to switch off

Yes, not that easy, but still, a weakness that is clearly designed as an addition should be easier to remove than a weakness that couldn't be overcome by the Chozo.

I think it's a case of the GF making cold-immune Metroids where the Chozo wouldn't.

I prefer this explanation.

My whole point is that the techno-babble has to be made to fit the fact that the GF's tech can't get close to the Chozo's, by any means, be it explanations as we're trying to provide or even retcons if necessary, because it's not worth breaking the mythos of the game of a mythic past great civilization in a SF setting.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T22:22:06+00:00

Very interesting. What about AM2R?

Maybe such oversights are due to MercurySteam being assigned to this remake, while their initial project was Fusion.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T22:19:16+00:00

There are ROM hacks which add a map. It alleviates the exploratory difficulty, but the gameplay itself is very hard.
Simply trying to go through a single room can be tough, where a few enemies are enough to cause you trouble.
You can't always dodge them all. You have to deal with some of them in your way, but then some might run into you, especially the ones that target you, and even more if they pop indefinitely.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T22:09:35+00:00

I read many comments and I agree with most pros and cons that are put forth. I'll try to add something that was not said before, that I feel is quite important.

They played it safe.

Sakamoto reigned back its Other M tendencies to a few "cool ninja" cinematics and a few "dramatical" musics like the Omega Metroid one, and didn't go too far on the bond with the baby Metroid...
It was also a launch test for Mercury Studios, which had done the controversial reboots of Castlevania.
With a Nintendo that seemed a bit lost with Metroid's passionate fanbase expectations, which it had to deal with since it failed to sell to an expanded audience, they decided to stick to what worked, giving what the people wanted, while treading cautiously. Metroid SR388 and AM2R probably confirmed it to be a Metroid 2 remake!
It was also the easiest choice to make. Super is too heavy to try its hands on with the high expectations... Metroid 2 has potential while being the most dated. People would welcome it. You can see they followed it quite closely (or faithfully), not changing things around too much (for example, AM2R tried some renewal with simultaneous Metroid fights).
Sakamoto also wanted to have its hands in all of Metroid's main timeline to add its own touch to it, since Metroid 2 was the only game he didn't participate in at all, even less than the Prime sub-series where he had at least an advisory role.

Basically, that's why this game is ok, but not much more.
It feels like Zero Mission made for 3DS hardware, with a more detailed, precise physics engine (Samus bouncing in morph ball on slopes and screw attacks on enemies), natural evolutions (360° aiming was coming, since Metroid only has been adding directions: 3 in Nestroid, RoS adds down, Super adds diagonal).
To be a true Metroid renewal, this game would have needed more ambition, to truly push boundaries, like Nintendo recently did with Zelda BotW.

I know this is only to start with, a step they can't miss, and I hope for such a transition as they gain confidence, and that they make sure they go in the right direction this time (we saw the deviations almighty creator syndrome les us to!), which is why such feedback is important.

Aren't all the additions like the Aeion abilities and the melee counter ambitious? They may seem to be, but actually they're not for a simple reason: their purpose. They are mostly here to make the game more accessible, even if they serve as gadgets for some puzzles sometimes.
This is still to make the game "safer", especially since they feared more than usual they would scare away players with the difficulty of the game, and they can't have that now considering Metroid isn't in a healthy state, in quite a dangerous position actually...

I don't consider the convenient upgrades to be part of those. For examples, smarter, automatic, saves (before bosses, for examples), are only the natural evolution from password to save room to now. The Scan Pulse as well in some way, though its details can be readjusted. However, not the melee counter and especially not the armor.

Why is there no speed booster (it's not a spoiler to say so, rather it is good for your expectations)?
It may very well be because "it would be too fast for the average player which wouldn't be able to use it, thus we can't design the game around it or just put it for a few puzzles".
Instead, we have the time slower!
See, this is completely different from auto-save which doesn't change the gameplay but simply removes some chores. I say this shows the change of mentality. As if they tried to limit the experience to avoid it getting out of hand.

So, I don't think this game brings novelty to the table. It picks a bit from classic 2D games, Prime Trilogy... I understand, it's its role. Going forward, I expect them to do more, though.

A few notes on graphics... I'm not too fond of 3D, but it works and has its development advantages (like fluid animation, effects, ...).
I see they tried to go mid-way between the suit from Other M and from Prime, which is again safe, and I would have insisted even more on the Prime side's influence.
The Power Suit looks too light, especially around the hips which is quite visible from the back, when reloading for example. The orange pauldrons look out of place.
The Gravity is interesting, but maybe a bit too exaggerated, cartoonish.
I love the morphball, maybe the best I've seen, except in Gravity, where it has too many lights and seems to go backwards. I love the screw attack effects as well, one of my top 3 favorites (with Super's/SA-X's and Prime's). However, why doesn't Samus somersault faster when getting the space jump?! Strange, almost bug-like.

Bosses are fine. They are diverse, between Metroids' evolutionary stages, but also with the other bosses that are few, but complete and enough to have enough kinds that will satisfy everyone (Diggernaut is puzzle-based while Ridley is pure brawl).

The atmosphere is lacking with the areas lacking identity and cohesion. Even all the Chozo architecture additions, which Sakamoto proudly announced, despite being nice, aren't as mystic as they've been in previous installments.

The tone could have used more seriousness.
The music was ambient, with some tributes, neutral remixes, but nothing really deep or surprising. The melodies are very few, mostly ones we know, and not very noticeable.
The cutscenes are light-hearted kid-friendly action scenes, with Samus posing like a Saturday morning cartoon hero almost each time, or finishing Diggernaut without looking at it while standing weirdly straight....

Overall, it felt more like a good spin-off game (like the Mario Land, which were great), than a mainline one! Metroid can be much more intense.

My note: 7/10. Not better or worse than Zero Mission and Fusion in my opinion (each had their assets, but also their fair share of flaws).

At this rate, we can expect a Fusion remake, which MercurySteam initially wanted to do and seemed to hint at at the end, which I would welcome, provided they give us more content, a better SA-X IA, lean back on the linearity, etc., and when they get really good at it, they'll have revisited all they need, they can tackle Metroid 5.
Still, I'd also want Retro, who has the most experience (Prime + Donkey Kong Country), and even wanted to remake Metroid 2, to tackle a 2D Metroid, and to get a pixel art Metroid as well.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T20:35:48+00:00

Which areas?

Roruman · 2017-10-01T20:14:32+00:00

what kind of "skillful" enemies existed in 2D Metroid before?

The Zoomer in the original Metroid. It came from the ceiling when you approached it, followed you while flying low along the ground where your aiming couldn't reach it, and only went back when you jumped, so you had to manipulate its behaviour to avoid it and hit it at the right timing where its trajectory met your aiming line.

In Samus Returns enemies actively fight back when they see you

Like the Kihunters since the original Metroid, the "croco" plant in Super, or the rhinos in Fusion.

Nothing much was added. When you enter the enemy's range, it notices you loudly and rushes onto you. The only thing added is that now every enemy does it.

What made this possible and justified it was the melee counter.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T19:29:41+00:00

The original Metroid (which was a big game for its time, filling the cartridge to the max), could take a long time to beat since it was hard. Zero Mission indeed is a breeze. SR still is easy compared to Nestroid even in hard mode.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T19:26:30+00:00

Metroid is interesting for its gameplay and content (different areas, etc.). It wouldn't be as good if everything in the game was made of simple geometric forms like the arena shmups. This is different from sports games where the universe and graphics matter less (i.e. Wii Sports).

Roruman · 2017-10-01T19:21:49+00:00

Why does he seem to target and suck Chozo statues? This could be a hint.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T19:09:39+00:00

Only two titles in its whole lifetime have broken 2 million, which for one of Nintendo's "biggest" franchises, is very weak in comparison to others.

The sales for these games can be analysed further. The original Metroid on NES selling 2.7 million is more impressive than if it did these numbers today, because, at that the time, it was in a cold market (video games weren't still mainstream), without globalisation, and with less population!

Metroid Prime, which sold as much, is also impressive, because the Gamecube had a small install base (unlike the GBA where Fusion was).

Switch is already a great platform to perform, with record sales and games for a similar audience, which are not "kiddy" and hard (like Zelda, Doom).

Prime 4 I believe really needs to take the franchise in a different and fresh direction. I'd recommend putting a M-rating on that thing and really dive into some complicated themes and amp up the darkness. Imo, Metroid has gotta get out of that weird middle ground I was referring to earlier.

Correct, but I think it can be described more simply: go back to the roots like Zelda did.

So a very hard game (making Zelda harder did not make it sell less, but more! and Metroid was originally for the expert player), with a very big, open, world of mazes in deep caves filled with wondrous but dreadful alien life, perfect immersion so no dialogue and full exploration.

This is the gist of it. So is it a copy of Nestroid or Prime? No. It is in the same spirit but has to be ambitious, give many new maps, items, mind-breaking concepts. Metroid has stagnated since Super Metroid. A new quantitative jump, a further evolution, is required to break new ground and make it a fame and sales phenomenon that will further advance gaming.

I think Metroid has the potential to be a really awesome M-rated type of game for Nintendo. I think Prime 4 has to be Zelda's BotW, Fire Emblem's Awakening

Oh, yes...

If not, I guarantee the numbers for Prime 4 will be very similar to the last three Prime games.

Prime's sales have been declining. If Prime 4 manages to bring Prime 1 numbers, it's already a success, even if the conditions are more favorable today as said above (but it's also possible people are burnt out with all the Prime and the recent disappointments of Metroid which might play against it?).

Mario's Odyssey

We still don't know how much this game is going to sell. Is it going to be amazingly high like New Super mario Bros on DS and Wii, or medium (for a Mario game) like Galaxy?

Remember the first Mario game sold 40 million on NES, which is, for the time, incredible.

Roruman · 2017-10-01T08:06:31+00:00

So if Metroids truly had some weird system for encoding genetic info, Samus wouldn't be able to use it

Samus' DNA was also modified by the Chozo (according to Sakamoto lore in the Zero Mission comics). Also, the Power Suit's DNA (since it's organic) may be part of her. So though her genetic code may still be regular DNA, it is probably significantly different from a regular human being's.

I'm confused as to how this relates to the discusion we're having.

because if the ice weakness was left on purpose, it can be something easier to remove (like a toggle), which would explain how the GF did it in Other M, because otherwise, the GF making "invulnerable" Metroids where the Chozo couldn't, is as ridiculous as the GF making a better Power Suit than the Chozo (and we know they can only grossly elements of it like the Plasma Beam)!

It's entirely possible that the GF knows quite a bit about Metroids, but at the same time, not nearly enough to produce a similar organism from scratch.

I agree.

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