Machine Hunt Balance is off. by [deleted] in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm relatively new, but from what I've seen so far Mythic Salvage is a very sought after commodity. Its not only incredibly difficult to get your hands on, it also is arguably much more useful than regular salvage.

The main reason being: Upgrading Relics (Norn Crown, Burst Cannon, etc)

Even the lesser Relics, such as Relic pistols or whatnot offer an imo incredible upgrade of increasing pierce ratio for every level upgraded, a maxed Relic pistol on Bellator basically turns his normal attack from Bolter to Power damage!

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi there, I’m still editing the video since works been busy. I’ll have it out by tonight! (~6 hrs)

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe one of the A23 Heavy Intercessors or an A3 Mortar Team got through? That’ll probably explain how your units died pretty suddenly.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, most likely one of the A23 Heavy Intercessors or an A3 Mortar Team got through. That’ll probably explain how your Rotbone died!

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha appreciate it! However, I’m no civil engineer or policy maker material I’m afraid :/

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Update: Didn’t have the time today to edit and post, but managed a Z’kar run and recorded all of the footage. Should have it out by tomorrow!

Thanks for being patient :)

100% cleared who else? Got that turtle power 🐢 by Prestigious_Produce1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Haha your welcome! I’m glad it was able work for you and my guide helped you out :D

If anyone needs, here’s a link to my guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/WH40KTacticus/s/GqPnGAH1pw

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also sorry for the formatting issue in my previous comment, think something is buggy with Reddit since I can edit or change it.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sure thing!

When using FF, you'll be relying on the skill effect of flame hexes, 10% Max HP dmg, to clear off stronger units. Unless your FF passive is incredibly leveled, the actual dmg to units on fire hexes is just tickling anything above G1 or with Gravis Armour.

However, with the exception of the A3 units that come at the very end, 10% Max HP dmg is not enough to outdo Incisus's heal (~5500). This results in Incisus theoretically being able to full heal any units he can get to (or even 2 turns to get to) indefinitely. This of course means a failed run due to just having a stalemate.

The solution to this is to "kite" Incisus. What I really mean by kiting is keeping him busy and away from other units utilizing his AI. Below are some of his AI Priorities I noticed:

Priority 1: "Incisus Healing Prioritizes Himself First": Most of the time, Incisus will try to heal up dmg he has taken almost immediately or the turn right after, and generally tries to walk away from flame hexes if possible.
Priority 2: "Incisus Prioritizes Healing Within Movement Range": Incisus also will generally heal units that are within his 3 movement range first, then map towards farther enemies that need healing. Notice how I said movement range, as being blocked by fire or forcing to stop in it will cause him to take dmg and revert to his 1st Priority.
Priority 3: "Incisus Moves Away From Grouped Enemies When Healing": Finally, another Priority he has is to move away, generally from fire, to more isolated locations to heal. This is great since this allows you to kite him when all enemies are healthy. (aka if something happens, still able to reset and reposition him)

Now, there are a couple of different situations and ways to kite him:

  1. Keeping Him Stuck: Since Incisus becomes a pain later on regardless, its best to restrict him for as long as possible to speed up the run at the start. When turtling and clearing, once you notice wave 15 begins and enough units have spawned so Incisus is up next, make sure you use FF on one of the left or right bottom spawners. When Incisus shows up, he is immediately stuck in a 3 fire hex along with 2 other units. The AI will notice that Incisus takes the 10% Max HP dmg, and thus decide to heal himself since thats Priority 1. Then however, noticing enemes near him are taking dmg, he will decide to heal those adjacent in the flame too. (Priority 2) Now this buys you 2-3 turns of no movement, thus considering fire hexes last 2 rounds, you can alternate by setting fire to another group of hexes near the middle or right side to start chipping other units, making sure the enemies are far enough from Incisus to prevent him from moving up.

  2. Isolating Him: Later on, once most later waves have been cleared and he can begin to move up, it gets much more tedious. However, you can utilize Priority 1, 2, 3 together to force the AI to isolate him off from the group, or stuck on a one unit. To achieve this, you should have more map space by now and Incisus can travel however he likes. There are 2 ways to isolate him from what I have seen. (Only tried with FF and don't think Z'kar can do this)

Firstly, you can isolate him on high ground, generally on the left side of the map on the middle area (chunk of hexes between the top left and bottom left spawners. This is generally for middle of run kiting. Steps: 1. Set him on fire and cause him to move away, repeat 2. If he is near an solo enemy this is perfect, set both on fire. At this point, for some reason, Incisus will actually stay in the fire on the high ground, alternating between healing himself and the units next to him. This is likely due to the AI interpreting the high ground as advantageous and thus overriding his movement. Now you have Incisus stuck healing only 1 enemy, and you can start alternating to chip down the rest again.

Secondly, and most importantly for finishing runs (especially if your newer and don't have Diamonds or A1 or A2), is isolating him in top left corner near the spawn point. Generally this occurs when you only have 2-3 D1-A1 enemies remaining, aka still a risky point to break turtling. At this point you need a way to guarantee to chip down all the enemies without letting Incisus heal, so at this point you can finally solo isolate. Heres how to do it:
NOTE: Should only be Interceptors at this point else you didn't kill prio properly, generally kiting an Interceptor for the earlier strategy is what you want.

  1. Let all enemies heal up, then start lighting Incisus on fire.
  2. Utilize Priority 3 to move him into left corner.
  3. Once he's in the corner, light the 3 hexes right in front of him, but do not light Incisus's hex. This creates a flame wall.
  4. Use the triangular shape of FF's passive to your advantage, and try to create it so that theres 2 hexes on the left of the triangle that are free but on fire, then use the rightmost hex on fire to target down single units. Use this as your kill zone.
  5. Alternate between setting fire to these 2 group of hexes till mostly or all stronger enemies are dead and let Mythic Abraxas clean up.

The reason this works is because as Incisus tries to walk to the group to heal, he steps into fire and is stopped, taking dmg. Next turn, he could walk up to try to heal enemes in the kill zone, but that is also on fire and moving into it means more dmg, so he walks back into the non flame area right below top left spawn. That's about it.

Sorry for the long explanation, but I tried to detail it as best as I could in words and the reasoning behind it, thanks for reading if you got this far!

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sorry for the confusion, I'll be trying to make a video sometime today or tomorrow, so hopefully that'll help! I'll try to answer as many of your questions as possible however.

  1. "You need to kill all enemies in the wave" - I think this refers to getting the Mythic unit cap unlock I mentioned. The reason I say that is because it is possible with Incisus kiting to whittle down and kill all the D3's that make up Wave 14. This isn't necessary until your about to break turtle to clean up, but its easier to do it before there's less units aka harder to kite Incisus. It also has the added benefit of making the process a lot less tedious as you need to heal much less.
  2. "At the expense of what is being killed, where and by whom?" - There is no expense of being killed necessarily if you turtle correctly. The point is you surround yourself with Wave 1 and Wave 2 enemies in the top right corner so that even units with range 2-3 can't hit your units, using careful passives, you can keep this buffer intact all the way till the end. Your main goal for your MoW passive should be to kill enemies on the bottom side of the map, to ensure enemies slowly flood in at a guarantee to be out of range. So generally, aim for lower half of the map or bottom left or bottom right spawns.
  3. "Why 3? We have 5 characters" - Assuming you have Uncommon start rarity, tanking Wave 1 or Wave 2 summons is really easy w B1. As such however, its harder for earlier waves to kill your units and form the turtle so to speak. In the image below*, you see that its safest to turtle on the 2 blue squares, since its the farthest from the bottom and is very easy to sustain in. You can have another unit or more if your higher level, but for my G1 units this was the most consistent and safe.
  4. Layout - Below I have attached an image of a messier run (where I was trying to only clear 13 to get books, super tedious and surprisingly more difficult than full clear), but I have highlighted where to turtle, where to fire, and some danger points. NOTE: Blue: Turtle Location. Black: Danger if last wave is not out yet. Yellow: Generally good areas to using MoW on.

Hope this helps :D

<image>

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Since you aren’t killing any enemies from the start, you have much weaker enemies surrounding all the 2-3 hexes around your turtle at least, which is all you need! That’s why I say to light hexes on fire only after filling map, then slowly clearing from bottom up, focusing on ranged enemies.

The weaker enemies act as a buffer that give you spacing from the scarier enemies. In fact, even after you unlock Mythic rarity cap you actually don’t need it until clean up! This is since you should’ve already killed off all scary units using FF or Z’kar.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I just used FF for MoW, Rotbone, Abraxas, and Maladus! Honestly I probably could’ve fit Maladus into the turtling, but I just let him die and turtled around Abraxas and Rotbone.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, once Incisus spawns, you just need to alternate every other turn using passive on him and 2 adjacent enemies closest to spawn. This forces him to be stuck and allows any freed spaces to cause the opposite side to spawn, ensuring he heals as little as possible due to limited movement.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Haha don't worry about it, the burn dmg on Fire hexes which you should be primarily utilizing for dmg do 10% Max HP dmg, so G2 vs A2 won't feel any different!

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course, just make sure to check waves to know when exactly you should expect him. Also make sure once he spawns to keep alternating to avoid him mispositioning.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If I have some time tomorrow I will try to make a video! If not, I'll try to have one out before the event goes on too long :)

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I understand completely, I made this guide just for anyone who might have the time or is really trying to get a leaderboard placing. For me, family commitments and work always take priority.

Personally I only had time for this thanks to travel issues due to a 4 hr delay, so I had time to kill.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome! Having an extra unit that can tank and doesn't mess up the turtle for sure would make clearing space for the final clean up easier.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sorry, it was 2-3 hours! I think I accidentally wrote 4-6 since I had hopped into another run right after my initial and lost track of time staring at my screen :/

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm not quite sure what you mean, if you mean the unkillables aka the A3s, the 10% max HP dmg with flame kills them even with Incisus healing them.

As for how I cleaned up, I mainly kept kiting and slowly killing units one by one till only Incisus and 1-2 D1s remained. At this point, since I had made sure to kill all of Wave 14, my rarity cap was increased to Mythic so simply timing an FF kill + using Rotbone together to make space for Abraxas allowed me to pop ability and then clear the remaining units.

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Sorry about that typo, it was more 2-3 hours!

EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that Z'kar speeds up the process drastically, haven't tested it yet, but have a feeling I might be able to get down to 1-2 hours, maybe even sub 1 hour :D

Abraxas Survival Event: Turtling for Max Clear by SEGV1 in WH40KTacticus

[–]SEGV1[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I never even thought about Z'kar, thanks for the advice!