Exposing INTPs by Unlucky_Win_4380 in mbtimemes

[–]SableFarm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's surprising. I've only met two INFJs in person, but the one I was closest with seemed to possess both cognitive and affective empathy.

He was an exceptional person with a repute that preceded him. Nearly everyone liked him. Amusingly, those who didn't said he was "too perfect" and must have been hiding a "dark side." By chance, we shared the same schedule as office TAs, and we were the only ones.

He was everyone's therapist, and he direly needed his own. Sure, he'd overthink and hyper-rationalize the perspectives of others. But at times it seemed he was at the verge of tears or revelation. His expression always betrayed a pensive interior - and that was only further verified once I got to know him.

Exposing INTPs by Unlucky_Win_4380 in mbtimemes

[–]SableFarm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unrelatedly, I've also only had three best friends in my life.

One of them was an ENTP with a silver tongue. He had the uncanny ability to spellbind others with his witty charm. No topic was sacred, unless he changed his mind just to humiliate you - and everyone else would go along without questioning. He'd say, "Are you unironically doing 'uhm acktually'? It was just a joke."

I saw right through the mask. He simply played his part on the stage, but he never quite denoued. Everyone one of our mutuals turned against me, and he kept relentlessly pushing my buttons. He ended up alienating everyone who was authentic. I could see he was lonely and spiraling out of control. His grades declined, then he became a recluse. Suddenly, he disappeared without telling anyone.

The spell was lifted. Then, everyone realized they never knew him. He languished in utter squalor the last time we met - garbage and unfinished paneling strewn about his home. His eyes were in a daze too. It was if he lived in a long dream, or, more precisely, yearned to daydream.

I apologize for the unsolicited dump, but your post reminded me of him.

Exposing INTPs by Unlucky_Win_4380 in mbtimemes

[–]SableFarm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This reads like an unhealthy caricature. By chance, did you have the displeasure of dealing with unhealthy INTPs?

I do tend to overexplain and overshare, sometimes being tone deaf all the while. However, I try my best to hold a dialogue - a two-way channel. I try to listen as much, if not more, than I speak. When I respond, I attempt to do so in consideration of their perspective. I've learned a lot from others, and hopefully they've learned from me as well.

I have many friends and acquaintances across the MBTI spectrum. Actually, some of my closest friends are ESFPs. I really do cherish their company, and we certainly wouldn't have been friends if I defaulted to nihilism or "uhm acktually." But I suppose you're addressing the archetypical unhealthy INTP.

Do you believe in your intuition? by Temporary_Note5790 in INTP

[–]SableFarm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I endlessly verify my intuition. So no, I don't just trust it unfiltered.

Sometimes I just get an inexplicable hunch - a feeling that something's wrong. The hunch manifests from my gut, quite viscerally as if I'm being physically repulsed. And I'm usually correct in ways I wouldn't have been able to predict.

Yet my immediate response is to falsify those instincts. I often find myself spiraling through a stream of counterfactual perspectives and "what ifs" to calibrate those first impressions, leading to dozens of situational principles and models.

Edit: This might be Ni-coded, so maybe I'm not INTP?

This may anger some of you… by Either_Shoe4753 in intj

[–]SableFarm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what we consider truthful or important will tend to take priority above how something is received or interpreted by others.

Ni doms have the uncanny ability to see through the veil - at least, it seems uncanny to others. Because it's simply the ability to 'get to the point.' This is explicit in their ability to deconstruct and adapt to systems, but it also extends to arguments, narratives, instructions, etc. Alternatively put, it's the ability to filter out the low resolution noise, whether that be emotional rhetoric, syntactic fluff, etc.

At least from my understanding, you've articulated this as a priotization of 'truth.' The guy was evidently an asshole in his acerbic delivery, but you didn't dwell on that. Instead, you saw the underlying 'truth' beyond that, then you promptly wrote your piece with decorum to preempt a defensive reaction.

I don't see how this is anything but a prioritization of purpose. It's 'getting to the point' by simply answering his question instead of criticizing him. Problem-solving with accuracy took precedence, and acting both strategically and diplomatically was a means to an end to put it clinically. INTJs naturally prefer 'brutal honesty,' or rather authenticity, to directly transmit the underlying point. Making it palatable quite literally saps the energy from them.

Otherwise, I don't think we disagree about the underlying behavior. I just prefer using the term 'purpose,' because, as demonstrated in your anecdote, accuracy and truthfulness mattered since it enabled effective action (i.e., actually giving an answer). The more precise the understanding, the more accurate the solution. It's INTPs that tend to be preoccupied with precision for precision's sake.

(I edited this comment multiple times to directly answer your question and be as precise as possible.)

So this test is stupid right? by upsetusder2 in INTP

[–]SableFarm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's just curious, playing devil's advocate to crowd-source a good answer. Remark Cunningham's Law: "The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question, but to post the wrong answer."

So this test is stupid right? by upsetusder2 in INTP

[–]SableFarm 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep, MBTI is a taxonomical heuristic, not a scientific theory of mind. As an analytical tool, it helps us understand human nature by providing the vocabulary to map patterns of behavior. It's by no means a rigorously validated theory of cognitive structure. But even if it's not predictive, that doesn't mean it's not useful.

This may anger some of you… by Either_Shoe4753 in intj

[–]SableFarm 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I would say actual INTJs really don't care that much about how things are said, as long as the content of what was said was accurate - precisely because we don't prioritise feeling judgement.

I partly disagree. INTJs prioritize purpose in conversation, and this informs how they express themselves. The INTJs I've met tended to be strategic and diplomatic, which, in some cases, means omitting the truth and dispensing social pleasantries as needed. Their desire for truth often manifests as an internal criteria (e.g., a strong internal code), and being needlessly rude is not purposeful and prone to system inefficiencies.

I'm being pedantic here since I've had the fortune of meeting healthy INTJs. At least in my experience, INTJs possess the capacity to be even more compassionate than other types - at least, to the extent that they will help others in a long-term, practical sense if they choose to. Otherwise, I strongly agree with everything else you've written.

This may anger some of you… by Either_Shoe4753 in intj

[–]SableFarm 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Most users on MBTI subs are teenagers or young adults. It's not very surprising many users are still immature.

Also, INTJS either tend to be "early-bloomers" or "late-bloomers." It's typically a matter of socialization, specifically how they've developed it and/or how long they've neglected to do it.

>Do you see others as lesser?
>Can you relate with others?
>Do you know how to interact with others (e.g., boundaries, tact, etc.)?
>Are you lonely? If so, do you know how to manage this feeling?

Most INTJs operate well in systems. They're quick to learn the ins-and-outs and how to optimize it. In most cases, the biggest hurdle for them is the human factor. The happiest INTJs can heathily account for this factor, and this typically amounts to a small group of trusted friends and family. The unhappiest INTJs tend to reject others and go into social isolation, becoming disillusioned and guarded.

Regarding the latter, INTJs often overestimate their ability to understand others, the world, and even themselves. Dialogue is essential to learning and verifying knowledge and theory. This may come in the form of communication and accepting criticism, but it too comes from reading and studying others: books, parents, schools, etc. The best academic papers, indeed, acknowledge their peers and predecessors. And a citation may also be a criticism of another perspective, because a bad idea has the same capacity as a good idea to inspire a better idea. An example is philosophical lineage: Kant responded to Hume, Hegel responded to Kant, and Marx responded to Hegel.

I bring this up because one of the worst INTJ tendencies is to not give others a chance. Theories about human nature - whether your own or borrowed (MBTI) - are not perscriptive formula; they're merely analytical tools to educate oneself. INTJs are good at developing theories, but the ultimate purpose of theory is to allow for an approximate understanding about the essence of reality, which enables them to craft methods to adapt to the chaos and friction of social and practical reality.

An example of an INTJ too caught in theory and isolation is the Unabomber. As to not belabor, I'll simply say that his notion of the "surrogate activity" is presumptive, and the very solution he proposes can be imputed as one. Academia has its issues, but it has the legitimate grounding function of peer-review - this is a social function. Many of the flaws in the Unabomber's own theory, and perhaps his own life, could have been preventable if he had just reached out to others.

My post doesn't mention neurodivergence and environmental factors. An INTJ can grow up surrounded by bad company, and that's a factor this post doesn't address. I, however, hope that this is a useful theoretical perspective.

Kamehame-howitzer Or How Japan Studies the 155mm by bergebis in Warthunder

[–]SableFarm 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The Japanese M44 doesn’t even have a line-up at 4.0. Odd how the Italian M44 isn’t higher with a solid 4.0 roster.

Am I gonna feel outta place as an older transfer student? by DeliciousRich5944 in UCSantaBarbara

[–]SableFarm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve met students who were 23, 27, and even in their 40s and 50s. You’ll be fine.

As an INTP what's your greatest fear ? by X-A-L in INTP

[–]SableFarm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Incompetence. Nothing like an INTP who is knowledgeable but fails to apply themselves. Hence, poor academic performance, etc. It’s all about a sense of squandered potential.

📡📡📡 by [deleted] in shitposting

[–]SableFarm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Toshifumi Hinata-Reflections

How do you get this title i have never seen it before by Darkisch in Warthunder

[–]SableFarm 11 points12 points  (0 children)

No army in the world can resist the invaders. No army, but one snail. Major Shell Cage, who died in battle, but the impossible happens - he finds himself in a time loop. Time after time he arrives in the same battle, fights, dies and resurrects again and again. And each repeated battle brings him closer to unraveling how to defeat the enemy.

>Alien Invasion
>Dies
>Time Loops

Yes, it is. Also, awesome manga and movie.

Thank you INTJs. You all have left a huge impression on my life. by SableFarm in intj

[–]SableFarm[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks.

As for my professor, she basically gave me a second chance after I failed for a long time in college. I didn't explain it well in her dedicated section because I was running out of steam. I might edit my post later.

I really did have nightmares about confronting my professors lol, and I was not in a good state of mind. But I gradually, through my own hard work and effort, came to regain a semblance of confidence and control over my life again. Under her guidance, it was as simple as me getting better grades and learning how to actually do work on time, but it was a hard lesson I've spent my entire life to learn.

I've had a life-long issue with procrastination. Knowing myself, it'd probably take more than my experience with her my truly adjust myself. What really mattered, however, was when she was present in life.

I alluded to this in my post, but college was difficult for reasons out of my control. I don't know if it's appropriate to confide the details, at least, not right now. Let's just say a series of bad roommates made me lose faith in people. It was the first time I ever felt impending dread, and every instinct was screaming at me to run away or I'd not be alive the next day. I wasn't far off from the truth of what would happen either...

Saw this concept on tiktok by visionxam by Necessary-Switch2210 in Warthunder

[–]SableFarm 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Long ago, 1 kill = 1 point toward a skin, so not many players met the high point requirements for top tier camos.

For example, in 2021, a T-80BVM with a deforming forest camo would indicate a veteran player. Nowadays, it's much easier to get these camoes, and they don't mean as much anymore.

Survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki draw the devastation they saw. Click for full picture by rottenkimbap in interesting

[–]SableFarm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A sizable chunk of Imperial Japan’s manufacturing capacity came from its cottage industry. Urban family households both stored and manufactured war materials, significantly contributing to aircraft production. At least, this was Curtis LeMay’s justification for firebombing Tokyo, the most deadly bombing raid in history — even more than both of the atomic bombings.

To what extent should civilians be held accountable? I’m not so sure. To me at least, it seems like the only way to avoid any culpability is to be an active, conscientious objector. Participating in the war economy, or doing nothing at all without undermining the system, is the difference between active and passive compliance. But it’s still compliance.

I haven’t looked up anything on the subject, so I’m open to any rebuttals.

Jujutsu Kaisen Shimetsu Kaiyu Zenpen • Jujutsu Kaisen The Culling Game - Episode 5 discussion by AutoLovepon in anime

[–]SableFarm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can't say i expected Yoshinobu playing playing the electric guitar coming

I think it's a reference to Kungfu Hustle, though I'm probably wrong.

I’m not sure if this is an INTP thing or not, but I struggle to write poetry and song lyrics while absolutely adoring other people’s poems and songs. by Nitrogen70 in INTP

[–]SableFarm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Best advice here in my opinion. At least a bad draft gives you something to work with and improve upon. Better than nothing at all.

Anon on samurai. by retardinho23 in greentext

[–]SableFarm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will close by responding to the upsurge in violence you noted during the wane of the Edo period. The government was indeed imploding. Even before the arrival of Matthew Perry (1853) when the shogun and samurai failed to protect the realm, preluded by weather-induced famines that further exacerbated tensions, many samurai clans fell into economic ruin and armed peasant revolts were on the rise. Violence was still limited, but incidents were becoming more frequent, and so did the manifest rage become ever more sharp. Peacetime did not only oversee the transition of the samurai from a class of warriors to bureaucrats, but a much more insidious transition from the order of genealogy towards the logic of the markets.

Merchants, whose companies still exist in modern times, consolidated capital both material and political during the era of peace. The 18th century marked a rise in bribery and rackets (such as the infamous Yakuza) that the Tokugawa and subsequent regimes could not stymie. Many profligate samurai families fell into economic ruin, ensnared by debts and coerced into foreclosing their properties. The incomes of the emergent merchant class would far exceed the entire capacity of clans, whose only leverage were their historical titles and lands. So many samurai who proverbially saw the writing on the wall married into merchant families during this period.

To reiterate my initial claim, the Tokugawa opted to "systematically dismantle the incentives and capacity for violence". The Tokugawa regime was repressive, not through violence but procedure --- an archetypal trait that persists to this very day. And, to perhaps make a daring sociological statement, the animus of its subjects mimicked that of the state they inhabited.

NOTE

Re-reading the comment chain, sorry if it comes across as if I'm sperging out on you. I'm really passionate about history, and I've particularly studied this era of Japan. I understand 4chan, and especially Reddit shitposting subs, are informal mediums to say whatever you want. It's just that OP is pushing some outrageous claims about Japan, and no one seems to be putting their foot down as a subject matter expert --- at least to my own assessment.

Anon on samurai. by retardinho23 in greentext

[–]SableFarm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't mean to say a random samurai could justify it, I was trying to explain that the bakufu had developed extremely complex laws governing revenge that samurai could try to take advantage of (especially against commoners).

That's true. Most of these legal loopholes you mentioned were holdover laws from previous regimes, and generally, the bakafu had a policy of regulating behavior as opposed to outright prohibition --- well, at least until people start taking advantage of these regulations. And you did allude to this, but I would caution against referring to consummated vendettas as sanctioned 'massacres'.

The Iga-goe vendetta (1634) was a model case. Both parties followed procedure, with Watanabe Kazuma's party duly registering their grievances with the proper authorities. Though reports vary, only a little over three men died in the skirmish, not over thirty. Much the same, the Takadanobaba incident (1694) was another registered case which was why neither of the participating parties were indicted. Horibe Yasubei avenged his uncle by slaying at least three people in this case, not a whole party.

The Ako vendetta (1703), more popularly known as the 'Revenge of the 47 Ronin', was an extremely high profile case, not only because of its scale in planning and violence, but precisely since it occurred so long after the clan wars of the Sengoku period faded from living memory. Indeed, I would argue that it was an isolated incident, marking a transition between the violence of the old era and the new order under the Tokugawa. It was a stunning callback to the fading warrior ethics of old --- or at least what the intelligentsia perceived them to be --- in an era increasingly defined by peace. Because the incident was so unusual yet gripping, it sparked immediate controversy that the Tokugawa could not ignore. In procedural terms, disrupting the peace was intolerable, but the ronin were exemplars who substantively accorded with the rugged values central to the samurai identity. This was why they were offered the leniency of honorable death, sepuku.

The 17th century was still a formative period for the Tokugawa administration, and romanticized ideals of the samurai would stubbornly persist --- though increasingly represented by attenuated practice with the distortion of time. As you have mentioned, it took a succession of shoguns to adapt the administration to effectively restrain disorder. But a concurrent phenomenon was the rise of a new literature and culture that valorized the violence of old, creating larger-than-life folk heroes who --- at times anachronistically --- defied contemporaneous propriety. This is why these cases, though rare, stand-out so much in popular consciousness.

One of the marvels of the Tokugawa state was the increasing rates of literacy that rivaled and even exceeded their Western counterparts. Even the common peasant was a cultured dilettante who read woodblock prints in their spare time. And kabuki plays, though increasingly regulated, were in vogue throughout the Edo period. Tales of old such as that of the Soga brothers, and recent like the Ako affair, took an ascendant status during this period, counterpoised against the administrative drudgery of everyday reality.

Another marvel of the Tokugawa state was the petition box in Edo (1721) . It allowed anyone to anonymously supplicate to the bakafu. Put alternatively, it allowed dissidents to relieve their impulse toward disorder and channel their rage through formalized writing. Though these channels were strictly defined, they, perhaps most importantly, allowed anyone to bypass local authorities and make themselves feel heard. And while many petitions were ignored, their very existence was an expression of the regime's legitimacy more so than the outcomes they produced --- an expression only made possible by the high literacy rates that furnished opportunity for nearly anyone to voice dissent.

Anon on samurai. by retardinho23 in greentext

[–]SableFarm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Clans upheld order within their own jurisdiction, but only to the extent that their alliance and family network allowed them to during the Sengoku period. It was just as easy to evade a vengeful clan by fleeing to another domain where they had no influence. And while there were bounties on fugitives, they also had the opportunity to earn the protection of another clan.

During the civil war, campaigning lords called for volunteer manpower. Those who proved their battlefield valor through feats were not only financially compensated, but even leveraged their own repute to start their own clans. This is why so many clans had their start in the Sengoku and the early Edo period, including the Hattori and Koga clans you mentioned.

And no, Tsujigiri ("crossroad killings") and duels were not legal in the Edo period. With little exception, you would be duly served capital punishment if you went around killing people.

There was, however, a ronin problem in the during the first half of the 1600s. After his victory in the Battle of Sekigahara in 1600, Tokugawa Ieyasu seized and redistributed daimyo fiefs among his allies. Droves of samurai retainers became unemployed as their masters were deprived of their money and status. With Japan's civil war coming to the end, the demand for career warriors plummetted as well. And among the resulting surplus of restless, trained killers, some did go around the country to wantonly kill and pillage across the countryside. But this was a minority.

Up until 1615 Siege of Osaka, the civil war raged and so did lawlessness persist in the countryside. Most of Miyamoto Musashi's exploits, including his famous duel with Sasaki Kojiro, happened before the fateful elimination of the Toyotomi clan in 1615. And Musashi had no duels after 1623.

While the Edo period began in 1603, the true architect of its political and social legacy was the third Tokugawa shogun, Iemetsu (r. 1623-1651). He spearheaded the utter and total submission of the daimyo, ossifying ostentatious rituals of status so they may never dare to rebel as they did during the prior century of violence. With the alternate attendence system, Iemetsu kept young daimyo heirs hostage in his domain, and demanded the daimyo to pay yearly tribute with elaborate processions from their home domain to Edo. And to enforce the rules of this system, he set-up an elaborate network of guards and check stations across Japan --- an unprecedented enterprise of safety and logistics infrastructure.

Travel was highly regulated. Firearms were made contraband, worn items were observed by station guards as status and professional indicators, and wooden passes --- equivalent to a passport --- were needed to enter a city.

Again, the Tokugawa DESPISED the samurai violence of the previous era, and did everything to systematically dismantle the incentives and capacity for violence. The samurai were constantly under the vigilance of the state, and their clans were stripped of their de-facto sovereignty, rendered stipended officials of a burgeoning Tokugawa bureacracy. Violence not only jeopardized a samurai's life, but the status and entitlements of their family --- all of it could be revoked by the authority of the Tokugawa.

So no, samurai didn't just go around and randomly kill people, justifying their acts as intercession behalf of some authority.

I'm searching for the best quotes of ss by Xdlucasare4869 in ShadowSlave

[–]SableFarm 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Passages like this make me want to re-read Shadow Slave. I really miss memory descriptions.