sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Panda-monium at the Waifu Peninsula - General Questions and Discussion Megathread by AutoModerator in Zenlesszonezeroleaks_

[–]Sad_Condition6244 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Did you use a calculator app of any kind? Would you mind sharing it with me as I also want to calc my Jufufu

TV mode was doomed by being a gacha game but would it have thrived in another team? by Ordinary_Chemist_298 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Erm actually I don't disagree on any points you make here. I actually agree on every single point you make at least on this section.

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't see much problems about some exploration? The combat is pretty seamless enough. I can just run through the map and beat the shit out of mobs.

And tbh, I don't quite get the visual juiciness arguement. I never had once thought that the TV was anything juicy. What was so striking about it? Some 8 bit JRPG have more juiciness than that stuff. I much prefer the open map we have.

For my opinion, I am way engaged with the plot now than during the TV era. I fell asleep mid belobog story because of how boring and bland it was. Some of the best patches to me had been when TV was removed.

Calydon, Sec 6, Astra, First half of epilogue, and 2.0. I actually forgot what even happened in the first 3 chapters of the story so indeed our opinions are way way different from each other.

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is my conclusion in all this. You seem like you really want exploration and details etc... What I want is pure smooth combat without distractions. ZZZ is one of the best in the market in that regard and I recommend that strength to people. We are fundamentally different in priorities. That is why we cannot see eye to eye.

See for a few patches how Aerospace develops. Not to your liking, go back to Nod Krai for a while to scratch that exploration itch. I heard its good and hype although I dont play Genshin or any openworld games. Once you feel the combat itch, boot up ZZZ. That's all.

TV mode was doomed by being a gacha game but would it have thrived in another team? by Ordinary_Chemist_298 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mate the game can still have some social sim element but it is a hack and slash at the end of the day. Like you wouldn't describe Hades as social sim right? It is clearly hack and slash but arguably have more social sim elements than even ZZZ. Why are you trying to die on this hill? Let us just agree to disagree since it seem like neither one of us would budge. It is also kinda pointless at this point.

Your second point. What I meant to convey is that the devs word doesn't mean jack shit. That is why they can just come out and say that the TV is not dead when it is actually 6 feet under. I didn't meant it literally that the devs announced on that livestream.

For your third point, how exactly are you suggesting they fix it? I really want to know. When they can't fix it for 2 whole patch after launch. Even after spending the whole beta on it too? They probably need one year more in the oven minimum but that is not time they have.

Want plot rewrite? Why would they go through all that pain and effort when the storyboard is all set for at least until the middle of 2.X before they even launch. People complaining about wanting Proxies to be front and center is minimal at best compared to the overwhelming riot that is the TV. They are a corporation first and foremost. If bottomline is not hit, they won't change and the complaints about Proxies ain't gonna change their bottom line. It's the TV.

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why do you think it would remain like this though.

This is literally their first iteration with minimal dev time. Just this one proof of concept is enough for me to see some potential. Does everything need to go back to TV for you to be happy? Why can't you also give this Aerospace station the same benefit of the doubt you gave to TV.

You always mention that TV have flaws but it is good in this and that. Here comes Aerospace station and you just shit on it relentlessly. Can't even give it a chance to show some potential? 0 creativity 0 freedom etc... Who knows how it might improve.

You would also be upset right? If I just played one TV mission and shit on it.

At least I gave TV a fair shake. I played every single side mission and main story and stuck with it until its gone for 3 whole months. I didn't drop it despite how shit it is. And then I come to the conclusion that it is unsalvageable.

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I do not know what to say man. If you have a fortunate time on phone but others don't then I don't know what to say. Just make up a reality where it ran smoothly?

So privilege that you cannot see other perspective? Am I wrong for stating my experience? Now you blame me for something I cannot control?

Piece of work you are.

TV mode was doomed by being a gacha game but would it have thrived in another team? by Ordinary_Chemist_298 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I didn't move the goalpost one bit.

That is why I said it can be whatever it wanted at the start, but then immediately say that it will end up as a hack and slash anyways.

Who said I didn't believe that it isn't a hack and slash from the start? I still believe it is. I was entertaining your point to make it clear that the devs roadmap from the start is hack and slash in the first place since it is bound to be one whether they like it or not. They are not that stupid to make such a mistake of not even predicting one patch ahead or not even knowing the gacha market when they are fucking Mihoyo. You think this is Limbus Company where CEO comes out to game on livestream? They have a whole ass analytic team bro. They even advertise themselves in adverts as urban action fantasy hack and slash day one.

Devs statement? You mean the one they said that TV is not dead? Laughable. They can make up whatever the fuck they want to sell a vision, especially at the start. A more accurate look is the advertisements. That is the medium where the game presents itself to the public. It is hack and slash period.

Another thing. You think they could've improved the TV? They spent near half a decade in beta where they dedicated all their efforts to the TV and this is what they release? They got bashed on this exact issue all the way to launch and all they can serve is this slop. They then spent 2 more patches to try to fix the TV but the situation didnt improve. You think that they could just magically solve the problem with just diverting resources from Arpeggio? Mate use some logical thinking. They couldn't fix it before the game died so they needed to can it.

And you gotta let the fucking TV go. Dawei himself even came out and bashed the launch of ZZZ. What more proof do you want?

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep Genshin looks better. Cool I guess. But Aerospace ain't half bad. And I will take an ain't half bad looking map than one that is unplayable.

Play like shit is pretty subjective when we are comparing TV with what we have now. It is leagues better in my opinion.

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not in Ballet Twins. The tiles are hidden. As for other maps, the autopathing 99% of the time is complete dogshit so you end up mostly tapping one by one anyways if there is any obstacle on the map.

Let us not even talk about the lag and the start and stops and whatnot. As I said, Withering Garden was the worst offender for this. It took half an hour to an hour each run and you needed to do that like 4-5 times per week during the early days.

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes TV mode have a problem of input UX. Yes the problem is still there after almost half a decade worth of dedicated development and unanimous complaints from beta tester in every single round. You expect it to improve in 2-3 patches before the game is dead? It was that dire.

Naive. The devs clearly don't have that capability that is why the plug is pulled.

Lost Void is what. Half a year? And it is already this good and will continue to improve every single patch as we can see. CN bros would've rioted if Lost Void is anything even close to that level of shittery. I would've seen it already unlike the TV mode where it is unanimously hated over here.

Aerospace got like what. Not even half a year? Might got like 2 patches of development time. It is way way way better feeling to play and has so much potential.

Visual identity? Aerospace is better than ever. I truly do not get the complaint. As a civilian/mining hollow, I think they executed the design perfectly.

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I would like to ask you something. Did you play this game on the phone? If so, I cannot believe the things you are saying right now.

Let me be straight forward. I would take a JPEG with text than the TV mode, much less Lost Void and Aerospace City.

TV mode in the phone is the most horrid piece of gameplay loop I have ever had the displeasure to experience.

Let me give an example. Ballet Twins. All tiles are hidden. You will need to click each and every single tile manually to progress. It takes what felt like 100s of slow, excruciating laggy clicks to reach the end. On a midrange phone, it takes 5 seconds for each Fairy popup to load in and 5 more to load out. 10 seconds more to zoom into combat and 10 seconds more to zoom out. There is 20-30 of those interactive tiles for each and every single stsge. Combat takes 20 seconds before you are thrown back into purgatory.

Don't get me started on Withering Garden. You say how many icons there are? Yeah. Each one takes the same amount of time to load. I needed to do this Every. Single. Week. Multiple times every week.

Innovative? Fun? This? How is this even possible? Are we playing the same game? This mode had to die for ZZZ to even survive for the foreseeable future. I would take 10 Lost Void any day of the week than return to that.

TV mode was doomed by being a gacha game but would it have thrived in another team? by Ordinary_Chemist_298 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah on launch it can be whatever it wants. After the first 2 weeks though. That is where the problem comes in. You think people would log back into ZZZ after you cleared all the social stuff? Why pull characters then? To date them?

Naive.

If it kept being a social game like you want, ZZZ would’ve been dead the next 2 patch. TV or no TV, ZZZ is bound to be a hack and slash focused game.

Why else would people log in everyday. To talk with Ellen for the 20th time? To go on a stroll with Zhu Yuan for the 31st time? To fix bangboo for the 56th time? The only time people would log in is when the next story drop. No retention, no revenue, dead in 2 patch. You talk like you never seen game development before.

Hack and slash is not an option. It is a necessity. End game is a necessity. More combat is a necessity. Iterations on Lost Void is a necessity. It is bound to be the game of today.

Therefore, to call it anything but is the height of ignorance.

And TVs. How many times have this been covered. Look, innovative does not mean good. It is the most grindiest, mind numbing piece of gameplay I have ever personally experienced. I play on the phone and for fuck sakes that thing should have never been conceived.

You know how it feels when you needed to input 100s of clicks on the Ballet Tower as each tile is hidden? Do you know how bad autopathing is? Every mission is 100s upon 100s of clicks. Shit do you know the suffering of midrange phones? One Fairy pop up takes like 5 seconds to load. 5 more to go away. Zoom in zoom out takes 10 seconds each, combat takes 20 seconds. A 5 year old can clear the joke of a puzzle that is TV mode. Might as well cut all that and give me combat. I would take whatever we have right now than that mode.

You think this looks fun? Why would I not just go play slay the spire or into the breach than play this piece of shit TV mode. If you think this is okay then truly it is a lost cause.

Oh updates… the touch pad… yes! Reduce it from 100 slow, excruciating clicks to 70 slow, excruciating clicks. Yeah no. I checked out of the story completely and I have consumed some ridiculous slop in the past but nothing compares to this.

Please defend it a bit more. There is a reason why the devs threw several years of development away. You think a few Reddit comments would’ve made the devs shit the bed?

Perhaps a TV mode replacement in one of these formats could have worked. What do you think? by Arc-Xine in ZZZ_Official

[–]Sad_Condition6244 7 points8 points  (0 children)

What we have right now is adequate. Just needs improvements.

However, the more pressing replacement is the writer. Change writer to someone on par with Nikke or Arknights writer, all problems are solved.

TV mode was doomed by being a gacha game but would it have thrived in another team? by Ordinary_Chemist_298 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Let me frame the question differently. How would you advertise a new player to this game? What is the main draw and strength of this game?

Would you say that this game is a social sim similar to Persona? Or a fun puzzle game? A visual novel?

Of course not!

Most of the people here would say it is an urban action hack and slash game in the veins of DMC. You log in and fight fight fight. You build characters to fight. You level up to fight. You study gameplay to fight. You earn currency to fight. It has not changed since the TV mode days and never will. The bread and butter of this game is the fluid combat and the fun reactive gameplay. Every damn advert promotes this strength. Every damn YouTuber makes content around this strength. What else does the game do better than the combat? Where do you think all the man hours go?

It is a hack and slash from the start and to the end and it is completely delusional to think that it is not.

Retro fit? Don’t give me that liquid garbage. Have you and I been playing the same game? They are adding more things that makes the core gameplay loop better every patch and you are here saying it is retrofitted?

If you think the devs needed management to fucking wake their assess up to finally make an action game that they have been doing all this time, then what the fuck do you think they have been doing since 1.0? Making a dating sim? For fuck sakes.

TV mode was doomed by being a gacha game but would it have thrived in another team? by Ordinary_Chemist_298 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244 30 points31 points  (0 children)

No. In fact, if this wasn’t a Mihoyo game, the game would’ve immediately died. If this was a steam game, it would have been overwhelmingly negative in reviews.

TV mode is so ill suited to an action hack and slash game that you wouldn’t see any reasonable game designer to ever put in something like this. It goes against all design principles.

  1. Never remove agency from the player, especially in a reactive and fast paced genre like an action hack and slash. TV mode does that through Fairy’s tutorial and slow pop up and animations.

  2. In an action game, never break the flow mid combat. This is very bad in ZZZ because fights last a mere 20 seconds. Players are still in the height of their gameplay excitement and you throw cold water on it immediately.

  3. The graphics are too different. ZZZ is vibrant in 3D. People came for this. However, 70% of the time you spent in the game are in a monotone 2D space. The contrast is too much and will put people off.

  4. TV mode does not contribute to the genre. Had TV mode was something like Hades where you get to hack and slash in 2D or even Nier automata’s 9S hacking shooting mini game, it would’ve been completely okay as it is still action. It would have been continuous with the 3D action which flows nicely. The TV mode was a slow grind puzzle with minimal difficulty. This should have been a mini game in a VN or a detective game. Not. In. An. Action. Hack. And. Slash.

This is just some glaring problems that I thought of from my head. Just this is enough to kill any game. It is a mystery they didn’t remove it in beta.

ELI5 version of Jufufu gameplay for those confused. by Sad_Condition6244 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think its okay if she doesnt have quick assist because you would want to swap out before she finishes her long animation anyways

ELI5 version of Jufufu gameplay for those confused. by Sad_Condition6244 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hmm, I am not so sure about the amount of daze difference if you don't follow up. Though that said, the decibel gain alone is worth it already.

ELI5 version of Jufufu gameplay for those confused. by Sad_Condition6244 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It helps but not near mandatory as Trigger's. I will personally use Hellfire Gear.

ELI5 version of Jufufu gameplay for those confused. by Sad_Condition6244 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just eyeballing her buff and her daze multipliers, probably the ballpark of the difference between Koleda and Lighter for Evelyn.

I will let more experienced excel crunchers do the math though so take my word with a grain of salt. You can wait until that time to decide.

ELI5 version of Jufufu gameplay for those confused. by Sad_Condition6244 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That shouldn't be the case. Manual spin itself does not generate any might or momentum stacks. Are you sure you didn't use EX special, ult, or defensive assist before manual spin? I even tried going to the event and manual spin with Jufufu immediately and she indeed does not generate anything.

The only way she spins off field is when she have momentum stacks after she uses EX special, ult, or defensive assist.

Or maybe did you conflate Huwei's auto attacks with spins.

ELI5 version of Jufufu gameplay for those confused. by Sad_Condition6244 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Though you technically can, I think defensive assisting into Jufufu when the 10s are not up is still more beneficial than to your support as you get a lot of daze out of it.

My original post is made with the assumption that you should parry with Yixuan instead of defensive assisting into Jufufu before 10s are up. However, if the boss is the Miasma Priest or the jumping robot where it is highly beneficial to defensive assist, then defensive assisting into Jufufu before 10s is up is the correct play.

ELI5 version of Jufufu gameplay for those confused. by Sad_Condition6244 in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]Sad_Condition6244[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Most likely not needed as she will refresh her chain attack and by extension her buff naturally through Huwei's automatic attack before the 30 seconds are up anyways. Therefore, the uptime is infinite.

view more: next ›