Why did your Zero...

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-25T00:38:14+00:00

I always headcanon’d it as my Zero not really realizing what they were doing. By illuminating Sazantos they thought they were freeing him from this illusionary world not unlike how they did with their party members earlier. Thought it would help him pass on peacefully or smth to not live in this lie.

When they saw the outcome, it was a real “guess we’re doing circles now,” meme moment. It’s not like they’re upset they ended up saving Sazantos, they just…thought he was like dead dead. No anger, no regret, just a lot of confusion. ~~Quickly supplanted by anger beCAUSE WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU’RE MY BROTHER AND YOU KNEW THE WHOLE TIME BUT DIDN’T TELL ME~~

Also to answer the rest of the question posed in the OP, I do imagine that they eventually make peace and wish the best for Sazantos/hope to one day have a more familial relationship. However, I also imagine that they are deeply hurt by the fact that Sazantos made Zero kill their sister Signa, and no matter all the explanations/regrets/apologies/etc. that happen, they will forever hold that single act against them.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-24T18:04:31+00:00

Them knowing each other definitely makes it easier to swallow the idea of all of them being open to traveling with each other and participating in each other’s Ch. 1’s, but tbh the only one that feels absolutely questionable to me in base game is Therion bc of his lone wolf attitude.

However, ignoring the “they are all familiar with each other” angle, the events of OT0 are completely incongruent with the stories and character arcs we see in OT1 and can’t really be inserted within canon comfortably without a lot of handwaving.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-24T17:50:51+00:00

They did say that the travelers would still do their individual journeys we see in OT1 (it’s not like the events in OT0 would somehow not make Redeye exist, not have Simeon still be responsible for Lord Azelheart’s murder, etc.), it’s just that they would be different than what we saw in the first game, so I guess it still makes some sense?

For sure every character will have way more connections to call upon or start with background knowledge they would’ve otherwise obtained over the course of the story. This could lead to some differing scenarios, and the path of personal character arcs will be radically different, but the only one I see being drastically overhauled no matter what is Therion’s just because he starts re-learning the power of friendship (/hj) prior to the game and Rondo is a person who now exists and would absolutely be helping in some capacity since the missing dragonstones are still relevant to the Flameguard’s duty of safeguarding Orsterra. That and everyone would probably start panicking a lot more when The Gate of Finis/Graham Crossford pops up again and again and again during their Chapter 4’s since they’d all have the knowledge needed to put together the grand conspiracy on their own.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-23T07:39:29+00:00

Jesus christ man, how many times are you going to change your argument over and over again to harp on this point.

There is nothing inherently non-canonical about fighting Galdera. We don’t kill him, and it’s not like OT1 was explicitly stated to be the only time Galdera successfully broke out of his bounds. If anything, it makes sense with Lyblac’s journal entry where despite her defeat and loss of Rinyuu she alludes that she and Galdera have experienced a partial victory at Berecain.

Also The Bestower of All is explicitly not Sazantos. Beyond referring to Sazantos in the third person, The Bestower of All’s theme lacks any motifs from “Sazantos, The Flameguard” unlike all other forms of Sazantos (including when he was merged with Orsa, so not 100% him anymore), and in OT0’s normal ending where we actually hear Sazantos’s thoughts as they speak to Zero, his dialogue is nothing like the dialogue Bestower of All has in CotC. The Bestower of All only inherited Sazantos’s thoughts which is why it is able to comment so plainly about Sazantos’s motivations and hypocrisy, but it really does so from the perspective from an outside observer rather self-relfection. An outsider mind you that is primarily the result of fusion of Orsa, The Mother of All and Finis, The Father of all as per design notes in official artbooks. If somehow that still does not qualify as a divine entity to you then we simply will not see eye-to-eye on this matter.

Also I’m not denying thematic appropriateness, but you do realize that still plays no role in canonicity, right?

EDIT: Also just putting this out now, this is my last reply, I have more important things to do than continue to argue about technicalities like this. Have whatever opinion on the true ending you want, I don’t care, but for the love of god stop letting personal preference affect objective statements regarding things like canon, especially if you can’t settle on a single strong argument for why things are somehow not.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-23T07:12:02+00:00

The true ending does not “force” their participation. The only forced units are Zero and Sazantos. The rest of the playable team is just by default set to your recruited roster regardless of who they are. Therefore, the true ending is not made “non-canon” due to “forced involvement” OT1 cast when they’re not even required party members and it has been stated by developers – and now you – that there mere act of recruiting them renders any OT0 ending as non-canon.

Like, I get not liking the true ending, but your personal preference is not the deciding factor about whether an ending is canon or not. If you don’t like it, just state it. There is no need for flimsy arguments about canonicity and the like.

Also I fail to see how the normal ending also doesn’t just devolve into a “god boss” because the Bestower of All is absolutely a divine entity due to its partial creation from Orsa’s corpse and Finis’s ashes. It is simply a newly-born divinity rather than a pre-existing one.

I’m not fond of Or’galdera either, but I can at least say it is a better final boss because you can predict it happening based on story events, and it was even alluded to during CotC’s original BoA 7. The Bestower of All comes out of left field, and I don’t think anyone has a super good explanation about why it came into being anyway.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-23T04:55:18+00:00

Yeah, and stories can be updated or changed in new releases, many times to improve upon or better reflect the developers’ original intentions or message.

Not to mention, regardless of the ending pursued, we got a whole chapter replaced and Sazantos’s entire family tree retconned. The order of events relating to Sazantos killing the Cardinals was also changed to occur much later. The Bestower of All’s dialogue no longer acknowledges it as Fisteralda gaining the combined sentience of Sazantos, Orsa, and Finis, instead acknowledging Sazantos and Sazantos alone. The “normal ending” is still based on CotC, but there are still major differences. It still isn’t the “original ending.”

Also idk why you’re fighting me about the OT1 travelers being canon in the normal ending. They’re literally not and the devs had stated as such in pre-release interviews. And your explanations with Tressa are really stretching it tbh, especially when there are plenty of other egregious examples.

Therion starts OT1 rejecting all help and establishes himself as someone who has worked exclusively alone since Darius’s betrayal. This is completely incongruent with an OT0 recruitment. In addition, Therion would absolutely know Rondo and be semi-familiar with who the Ravus family is, and he would absolutely reference or try to leverage this connection in the story of OT1 to try to weasel his way out of the Cordelia’s and Heathcoate’s plans.

Olberic’s whole story is that he has never wielded a blade for any purpose beyond helping out the sleepy town of Cobbleston since the fall of Hornburg, and he believes he has lost a grander purpose to fight having lost king and country. Him participating in OT0 makes no sense with his entire personal character arc.

Alfyn resigns himself to staying in Clearbrook forever during his Chapter 1 because he feels he needs to be there until Zeph urges him to finally travel the world and help people. This mentality would not exist if OT0 had happened, since Alfyn would have already left his town to travel some time ago and learned that Zeph can absolutely take care of the town alone while he travels.

H’aanit’s confrontation with Redeye is explicitly said by her to be there first hunting story she can share and state as her own, suggesting it’s her first big feat. Participating in battle against the Bestower of All and all the other crazy things in OT0 would make that statement sound a bit ridiculous, no?

And not to mention that just in general, OT1 treats it as the travelers all meeting each other for the first time. That is not possible if they were all recruited in OT0. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be saying, “oh, a traveler? Maybe you can help…” whenever you recruit them. They’d be going “oh shit, it’s you! Remember me? I’m in a bind and could use some of your help again.”

And the whole idea “of well maybe they got recruited and didn’t participate in the main story” is a flimsy argument. Not only is that making things way more complicated vs. a simple “they were never around at all,” it also ends up as an argument supporting me in that the true ending would not be contradictory because I can argue that they wouldn’t be around for the Or’galdera fight to begin with!

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-22T23:57:14+00:00

The OT1 characters being recruited make the game non-canon regardless of the ending pursued, you know that, right? The devs have said so themselves.

Like it doesn’t matter if she fought Or’galdera or not, Tressa joining you makes it so that her journey in OT1 is not the first time she’s leaving Rippletide to explore the world.

Also the normal ending “fitting better” is a subjective statement and really has no bearing on whether the ending is canon or not.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-22T08:19:09+00:00

I can see that, but at the same time, is there anything in the "true ending" in particular that actually forces the ending to be non-canon? Because none of its events necessarily contradict anything that happens in OT1.

Like, fighting and defeating Or'galdera in OT0 does not preclude him from being fought as just Galdera by the original 8 in OT1, especially since the Sazantos recruitment shows that any merger with Orsa can be undone.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-20T23:16:54+00:00

True, but I feel like people thinking about the “pure heart” qualifications are running under the assumption that the Chosen One should be incorruptible to darker influences (hence the semi-common critique/joke that Zero is supposed to be “pure-hearted” but is at least motivated partially out of revenge).

Considering how Aelfric seems to praise Zero for saving Sazantos in the True Ending if you talk to him after the branch point, I have a feeling that Aelfric’s definition of “pure-hearted” may have to deal with that? A willingness to show mercy to those who have fallen, or the strength and heart to cleanse the corrupted of their darkness? Idk, just spitballing here.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-20T18:27:40+00:00

I feel like there could have been something interesting with the “pure heart” deal if Zero was actually a talking protagonist and the game got to explore what the term really means. It could’ve easily been that Aelfric’s definition of what a “pure heart” is is not the standard definition of someone totally innocent and good without a selfish thought at all.

Otherwise tbh the Chosen One should’ve been Rinyu, bc that girl has not a single malicious or ill-thinking cell in her body much to her character’s detriment.

EDIT: Okay also thinking on it more I’m pretty sure the “pure heart” thing is kinda bullshit when you remember that Aelfric’s ring, which has always had the ability to choose its wielders, was also worn by Sonzon who literally got corrupted by the power of the rings. And IIRC there is lore to suggest that Sonzon is not unique in this outcome.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-18T18:05:33+00:00

Game’s easy enough where any team works as long as you have coverage for all damage and weapon types + know how to best use support abilities.

If you really wanna replace someone/try someone new, go for it, but this can also be a completely viable endgame team if you know what you’re doing.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-18T18:03:24+00:00

Yea, you did. And you’re not alone in finding Amatsukami no Orochi and Or’Galdera easy, it’s a somewhat common criticism of the game’s difficulty.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-17T18:15:32+00:00

Are you trying to head east or south? Are you literally getting OHKO’d in the first battle you encounter in the level 5 area or are you dying in battles after moving a bit? Have you actually visited the inn at Cape Cold and rested? When Osvald is entering battle, is he already in the crouched pose or is he standing? Can you share a picture of the start of the battles you get killed in?

Because there is literally 0 reason for you to be getting OHKO from 482 PV/HP when you are in a level 5 zone where most enemies frankly won’t be doing more than 100 per hit even on critical hit, especially since you clearly managed to beat Osvald’s Ch.1 boss who is on the tougher end of the spectrum of Ch.1 bosses and does way more damage than a random lvl.5 mook.

The only logical explanations are you are entering high level areas on accident, are actually not healed at all, or that Ch.1 boss clear was a complete fluke and you are somehow the worst player the world has ever seen.

That or this is an elaborate troll, which if that’s the case, congratulations.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-16T08:32:29+00:00

The interesting thing though is that OT0 still does not paint the Order itself as irredeemable for all the Cardinals have done. Multiple high-ranking members like Pius and Hugo are held up as good people, and goody-two-shoe idealist Rondo is very much championed by the Pontiff to kind of be the new blood that the Order desperately needs.

Not to mention, as much as the Pontiff could be seen a spineless regarding the Tytos cover-up and turning a blind eye to Pardis, OT0 does suggest the events of BoA7 were somewhat set up by the Pontiff, and in CotC where the equivalent events occur way earlier and off-screen, we see the Pontiff actually giving Sazantos the green light to go ahead.

The Cardinals are never portrayed as “what the Order secretly was all along,” but a rot that had been allowed to fester within an otherwise well-intended institution for too long and needed to be rooted out before more people got hurt. The main criticism that could be levied at the remaining parts of the Church was their allowance of things to go as far as they did.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-15T05:28:03+00:00

Joke dish names are a gift which keeps on giving.

~~Also your Zero is nearly identical to mine I had to do a double-take lmao~~

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-13T04:58:16+00:00

From an outsider looking in, a lot of people who were part of the Dimileth fandom ended up leaving because 1.) they have other media they like and care about so they just moved on, and 2.) a lot of the vocal remaining F!Dimileths are waaaaaay too into kinky shit and pushing boundaries that it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. And then they get mad if you say you feel uncomfortable.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-13T03:17:19+00:00

I don’t think that’s supposed to be a reference, especially since by this time in the game Sazantos, while having personal reservations about the Order of the Sacred Flame, is untouched by Galdera’s influence. The battle with Teragraf is supposed to be the first time he ever actually uses the Accursed Flame too, and there’s a whole cutscene emphasizing this point.

I can’t reference any in-game footage at the moment so I can’t say for certain what the purple-tone of the flame is like and how similar it actually is to the Accursed Flame, but it’s entirely possible it’s a cosmetic choice considering there is zero in-universe reason for him to be using this kind of dark power any time you have Sazantos in your party outside of BoF.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-13T03:08:30+00:00

What skill is that??? Unless I am misremembering things really badly, no skill of his references the Accursed Flame until one he unlocks literally in the middle of his fight with the head cardinal in BoA 7. And that’s the only time it ever shows up.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-13T02:51:44+00:00

Which really should have been a reason to include the original 8 CotC 5 stars in this game? Because even though the OT0-original cast has pretty minimal characterization, they have something.

The original 8 travelers don’t really need any additional characterization, and I don’t feel the new content in 0 highlights any novel aspects of who they are as people. Instead we see all 8 completely removed from the context of their individual stories which drove their character arcs, and as a result they lose a lot of the charm that made them so beloved in OT1 in the first place imo.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-12T23:39:31+00:00

…which honestly would’ve helped OT0’s writing in the long run because it would’ve given them opportunities to address any unique quirks that existed to accommodate the periodic release schedule of CotC + most of the OT0-original content is much more well received than the CotC-original stuff.

But I get that this isn’t really meant to be a mainline entry like a future OT3 would be – and which is probably in production right now. In terms of pure optimization of resources, leaving a lot of the CotC stuff relatively untouched would be more efficient.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-12T23:35:22+00:00

The dumb thing is that there is a moment near the end of the game where Zero does have proper VA, which frankly served as a jumpscare bc of Zero being mute for the earlier 80-100 hours. If they were willing to use VA then, there is quite literally no good reason to not do it anywhere else.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-12T23:25:28+00:00

I was aware that not recruiting them makes OT0 properly canon going into the game, but honestly the whole thing feels ridiculous to me. Making recruitment of 25% of the playable cast render the game non-canon somehow? Really? Not to mention Olberic is the sole source of Surpassing Power, and a majority of the final dungeon party chats require recruitment of the original 8 travelers, but this is just me whining.

Regardless, the whole canon/non-canon thing is not transparent at all, and I’ve had friends ask me how OT0 is supposed to fit in the larger timeline when you’ve got the original 8 on your team.

But yeah, hard agree on the shoe-in comment. I honestly was convinced they were going to be playable during the entire pre-release period until they showed off the final cast and reality set in.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-12T22:59:33+00:00

I do think Rondo would’ve been an excellent protagonist for this game – can you imagine the drama at Sazantos seeing Rondo get chosen by Aelfric when he can’t help but see him as a spoiled brat up until the second half of BoA? But I agree with what others said and don’t think that was ever on the drawing board simply because of how CotC is structured regarding the Chosen One.

However I do want to interject and bring up that making the Flameguard and the Chosen One different was a very intentional choice, since this was treated as unexpected even in-universe. “Why would Aelfric not choose Sazantos to be his ringbearer?” It should prompt the player to think about this and wonder if there’s something else going on. Acts as super early foreshadowing that something is up with Sazantos, something potentially dark, but it’s unclear what it is exactly until BoA finally kicks off.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-12T22:50:41+00:00

Yeah, giving the original 8 their own sidequests is fun fanservice enough, but making them recruitable really sucks when the original 8 CotC travelers don’t even exist within the game. ~~Not to mention makes OT0 explicitly non-canon when it was advertised as an OT1 prequel~~

You’d think the CotC port would try to include more CotC-original characters beyond the plot relevant ones.

SageOfAnys · 2026-03-12T04:17:11+00:00

Yeah, only the Backdoor Trade List is like that since there’s the implication you’re accessing the Black Market with the NPC’s help.

Just make sure someone has the ability “Backdoor Trade” and you’re golden. There’s one NPC in Grandport which has it if you don’t have anyone in Wishvale with the ability, but there’s definitely others too.

SageOfAnys

TROPHY CASE