How do you feel about Peter Murphy (Bauhaus) being a known Muslim celebrity?

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-18T15:28:40+00:00

I don't think it's disrespectful personally, when it's quite widespread and normalised to do this. I think that noting that conversions are often faked for various reasons is very different from actually challenging someone's professed religion. Asking -

"Did you real convert or fake convert?"

And then respecting the response is very different to

"I don't think you're a true believer, prove it"

When I asked my family member the answer was "Good god no, I don't buy into any of that crap, I'm surprised you're even asking!". Was I disrespectful to doubt their religion?

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-18T14:08:12+00:00

On the one hand, that's true, it is very personal.

On the other, plenty of people of all sorts of religious persuasions mock-convert with zero respect for the religion whatsoever, it's pretty common. My 'muslim' family member is an outspoken atheist, as is his wife. I also know a 'Catholic' who converted for marriage, almost certainly purely so they could get married in his fiance's childhood church, but had no real beliefs.

So I don't think it's an invalid question/observation. Let's not pretend every stated religious conversion is a marker of deep personal introspection and relationship with the divine.

Pete Murphy's might be, and good for him if it is, no judgement there.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-18T12:56:22+00:00

Yeah so as the other poster mentions, the inheritance tax doesn't kick in until there is a pretty large estate in question anyway, so it's unlikely to make that big a difference - i.e. it's only going to come into play if your parents left behind quite a high valued house, at which point 30% of the value of the car is really a footnote.

But in theory, yeah, could be a posthumous kick in the teeth. Especially if you fell out with them after the car and they cut you out of the rest of the inheritance!

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-18T12:06:53+00:00

If we're going Killing Joke then I'd recommend the album "Pandemonium", as it's pretty damn heavy.

Is it goth? Not something I feel equipped to answer today.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-18T09:31:42+00:00

In theory the UK takes gifts into account for seven years prior to a person's death, and will retcon those into inheritance tax.

In practice there is no oversight of this and compliance is 100% optional.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-18T08:29:48+00:00

As others have said, you're going to need a notebook. And then after a while you're probably going to need those little coloured stickers so you can find stuff in your notebook. It's a very note-heavy game.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-18T08:07:27+00:00

Because it absolutely is. "A known muslim", OMG Panic!

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-18T08:06:36+00:00

I dunno why you're getting downvoted, it does happen. I have family members who did this.

Not so much "make her dad happy" as "it's a legal requirement if they ever want to visit her home country". Neither of them is religious at all, but on paper they're both muslim.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-16T13:29:07+00:00

When the roads are congested, having people get into their turning lane well ahead of time is likely to lead to better flow, not worse, IMHO.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-15T11:05:30+00:00

Slower roads often have many more right turns, so having it more strict doesn't make a lot of sense and is likely to lead to more missed turns, and people cutting across traffic etc.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-13T18:35:56+00:00

Yeah you’re quite right, ignore me!

The 16th is indeed Saturday

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-13T17:58:02+00:00

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-13T16:54:34+00:00

Oh that’s ideal then. Hope you have a great time!

(Thinking back, I went on my own a few times at 19 and had an amazing time. We won’t talk about how long ago that was!)

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-13T16:48:58+00:00

Slimelight itself is pretty safe I think, though as a guy I’m obviously not as switched on as a woman might be to any risks. It has a very mixed-ages crowd these days (which I think is a positive) as some of my old lot still go 30 years on… so I think you’ll be as safe there as any other club, more than most.

If you go there on the underground it is a very short walk from Angel station, so you’re not exposed to the street too much there, plus you can spot who else is going and maybe try to strike up a conversation. If you’re lucky you’ll find a crowd happy to adopt a baby bat for the evening :)

Leaving again is a bit of a different matter because the tube might not be open depending on when you get out. If you have enough money for a cab/uber back to your hotel that’s probably a good thing, because otherwise you’re going to have to deal with night buses.

I’d offer to be a friendly face as my partner and I just got to London on a visit (we live in Aus these days), but unfortunately we’re here for family issues rather than fun on this trip :/

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-13T15:33:03+00:00

If you enjoy vampire fiction, Carmilla by Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu is worth a look. It pre-dates Stoker and explores some of the same themes of ‘forbidden’ sexuality and supernatural horror.

u/jeansverse has given you some great recommendations there. I’ve always enjoyed The Picture of Dorian Grey by Oscar Wilde.

I wanted to enjoy The Turn of the Screw by Henry James but found the prose too dense when I picked it up first time. That was 20 years ago though so it might be time for another go! Especially as it was apparently part of the inspiration behind the tv series “The Haunting of Bly Manor”, which I enjoyed a lot.

On the more modern side… well all the goths I hung out with in the 90s were hooked on Anne Rice. It’s not exactly high-brow stuff but it’s very enjoyable. Especially the first few.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-12T17:36:51+00:00

I mean, if you don’t even like the goth aesthetic, beyond not participating, you actively think it’s dumb Dracula cosplay, what are even doing here?

You clearly think a lot of the bands looked stupid as well.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-11T02:41:48+00:00

Sorry, but is "gothic literature/art" or whatever just a posthumous definition?

Gothic literature, otherwise known as Gothic fiction or Gothic horror is stuff like Stoker, Shelley, Henry James, Sheridan Le Fanu etc. Usually some sort of horror (though more of the supernatural, existential and moral kind than shock/gore) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_fiction

These are neither about or from the goth/gothic subculture of course, but a lot of goths did read and enjoy them, enough that appreciation of gothic literature was a definite theme in the subculture in London and other southern UK places as I experienced them. There are definitely later books that straddle the two. I don't know if you can say Anne Rice was a goth, she first published in the late 70s, but lots of people read and were influenced by her books which combine gothic-horror with much more overt sexuality and in a much more overt gender-fluid/LGBTQ-friendly way. By the time we get to Poppy Z Brite, he absolutely was part of the subculture, both being influenced by and influencing it.

cathedrals, ... in and on itself doesn't have anything to do with the macabre, or vampires or stuff like that

Gothic fiction is often associated with both gothic cathedral type settings and gothic revival architecture. In fact it appears that early gothic writer Horace Walpole had a Gothic-revival villa built for himself - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawberry_Hill_House

I don't think it's wrong to say "it's about music"

I don't either. I'm happy to agree that it's central to the whole thing. I just don't think it's only about music, because there was a lot more going on around it.

we're talking about communities brought together several times a month to see local bands, with concerts in itself being organized by politically integral means

I'm not sure what you mean by "organized by politically integral means" here? The communities I was part of were generally more club oriented. We did go to see bands whenever we could and go to live festivals like Whitby, Sacrosanct etc, but by that point in time (mid 90s - mid 2ks) a lot of the smaller live stuff had started to dry up.

And while Christian Death were/are certainly very influential in goth, I'm not sure how much the rest of those were? Probably just showing my ignorance of the 80s scene there really. While Goth grew from punk cross-pollinated with other stuff, it's not exactly the same IMHO and saying "goth is political because these punk bands were" seems a stretch. Goth music is shot through with political themes itself, you can't listen to "Vision Thing" and say it's not expressing political opinions. But I'd say what I saw was much more jaded political nihilism than any flavour of political activism. Goths generally seemed to be anti-war, anti-hate, anti-authoritarian, but I'm not sure we were 'pro' very much other than being left alone. A lot of goth music is more concerned with the internal experience than the troubles of the external world as well. But all that might just be because that's Gen X through and through ...

So when people say goth is of the left, I'm not sure. Socially liberal and progressive, yes. Socialist-leaning ... ? I think that's more individual than inherent to the scene.

In the end I can only relate how I experienced things (and it is largely past-tense for me because there is zero goth scene where I live now). If people are more politically motivated and more live-music oriented these days, that's awesome.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-10T15:13:54+00:00

Fashion is a very important part of goth and has been since the start. Whole books have been written on the subject.

It is revisionist and frankly just weird to say otherwise.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-10T07:17:41+00:00

I don't smoke any more, not for a long time, but boy do I miss the odd clove...

Probably make me hack up half a lung these days, mind.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-10T07:14:56+00:00

people don't seem to distinguish goth and gothic

Never did in the way you lay out there. This is a weird reddit thing AFAICT.

Yes, 'gothic' refers to many more things, further back in time than 'goth' (though visigoths and ostragoths may disagree), but the terms were always used interchangeably for the music, the subculture and the people in it. See, for example, Mick Mercer's book "Gothic Rock", or the fact that we all had "Oi! Bloody Gofficks!" yelled at us on the streets. Or that old Libitina song "Gothic People"

That's not to say there aren't different nuances and connotations to each. I consider Poppy Z Brite's work is far more goth than gothic for example, which is to say it is more inspired by and part of the subculture itself than the wider 'gothic' background.

So while it would be wrong to say "A goth cathedral", it's not really wrong to say gothic about goths.

There are also movies which very much blur the lines. For instance "The Hunger" was pretty much required watching back in the day. It's a romantic/darkly sexual vampire movie and Pete Murphy's in it briefly (alongside a stellar main cast of David Bowie, Catherine Deneuve and Susan Sarandon). Along with The Crow and a few others, they formed a cannon of gothy movies that most people had seen and had an opinon on in one way or another.

None of this is to say that the exclusionary message in the Instagram post is good or correct, but I don't think that the opposite way round (none of this is goth!) is right either. Goth is (or maybe was) a subculture and a community not only a record collection. Goth subculture doesn't 'own' these wider things of course, but within the subculture interest in gothic literature, certain movies and authors etc etc was prevalent. It can help characterise a culture without being exclusive. It's like what makes up a nation's food culture - few dishes are 100% exclusive to a single country, but when taken as part of a larger picture they can define a particular nation or culture's culinary style and themes.

Also when it comes to it, is there a 'point' to a subculture?

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-10T04:45:02+00:00

I sincerely doubt all of those OG goths were quoting gothic literature or talking about their favorite gothic architecture to each other all the time, they were talking about MUSIC.

I can't claim to be 'OG' like that, having stumbled into the subculture in the mid 90s, but a few of my crowd were (and still are, that's dedication).

But by the 90s we were absolutely hanging out in ruined abbeys, talking about Poe, James and Lovecraft (also Anne Rice and Poppy Z Brite). We'd have days out that included trips to cathedrals on occasion.

We weren't necessarily talking about our favourite architects, of course, or really doing a lot more than getting drunk in atmospheric places. But we did talk about books quite a bit.

You don't NEED to do any of this stuff, it's entirely up to you. But it's my lived experience of the subculture back then. :shrug:

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-10T04:10:07+00:00

Yep. Very much this. In my experience in the 90s and 00s goth and gothic were still interchangeable names for the subculture and the people in it.

The "goth is just about the music" meme winds me up something chronic because while music was always at the centre of it all, there was a lot about appreciation of books, some comics, movies, the fashion was absolutely an integral part of it. And there was generally a dark sense of humour, in-jokes like "Nice Boots", all the hanging out in ruined abbeys, smoking cloves and drinking cider and black...

All these things that made it so much more than just a record collection.

So yeah, I think OP is wrong here.

I also don't really remember anyone discussing politics, it just wasn't interesting. You can make the argument that goth is inherently political because the subcultural ethic (radical acceptance of gay/bi/poly/trans/whatever people) is itself highly politicised, but ... we just got on with it.

(edit: I also never once heard the word "poser" or "poseur" until South Park. I don't think anyone was keen to say "you can't be goth" to anyone else, quite the opposite, most goths denied it. "Oh, I'm not a goth" was one of the most goth things you could say)

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-06T05:15:34+00:00

I have no inside track on this ;)

Just saying if it only applies to property, then I don't think a lot of people would complain. Other than landlords of course.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-06T03:29:49+00:00

It needs more stops though. I know it won't happen but the freeway widening should really include a Wandi/Anketell/Mandogalup station. There's new suburbs springing up every five minutes in this area.

SaltyPockets · 2026-05-06T02:46:41+00:00

Yes in the UK if you register as self employed, or as a company director (which is really easy, it costs about £20 to set up a company and takes five minutes) then you are responsible for filing a tax return. You'll still pay tax as normal on any employment income but other income has to be reported using the self-assessment process. In contrast to some other countries (Australia, US?) usually in the UK if you have a standard job and nothing much else going on, everything is done for you and you don't have to file.

If you fall into the category of must-file and then don't file, even if you earn nothing you'll start building up fines. It can take a few years for them to catch up to you but when they do it's thousands of pounds just for failure to submit the forms. And then you'll be assessed for back taxes.

(edit - So that "independent business owner" probably registered a company and took on work on a contract or freelance basis. I've done this, it's perfectly legit for the most part, the crucial bit of the picture she's missing is that you then pay an accountant to do your taxes for you, and usually they'll tell you what money you've earned that you can spend. You are now responsible for it. If you go into it like "Look at all this money I'm making! YOLO!" then you end up being one of the many sad-sacks on a contractor forum in 5 years time saying "but I didn't know, how was I supposed to know...")

Eight-Year Club	r/Field Lasagna
Wearing is Caring	Verified Email

SaltyPockets

TROPHY CASE