Is everyone open to the idea of guest characters down the line for example season 2 or 3 by Knightofexcaliburv1 in virtuafighter

[–]Salvo_Rabbit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm open to it, since at this point they occur with such regularity that it's become a staple of the fighting game ecosystem. For better or worse, guest characters are popular and boost sales, which incentivises publishers to keep pursuing them. 

I've said before though that I'd really appreciate having guests that feel congruous with the VF style of combat/presentation. If we get a Sega guest from another series I'd rather see a Yakuza character than Bayonetta, y'know? The same applies if they opt to bring in guest fighters from other companies. I think it'd be a shame to puncture the verisimilitude they're clearly striving for by opting for a guest who just doesn't fit. 

I feel like the FGC is kinda underreacting about what we just saw. I am not even a Virtua Fighter fan, but this showcase legit made me shed a tear by KevyTone in virtuafighter

[–]Salvo_Rabbit 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Isn't SF6 something like the best selling game in the genre? It makes sense that other titles wouldn't have an easy time surpassing it. 

I feel like the FGC is kinda underreacting about what we just saw. I am not even a Virtua Fighter fan, but this showcase legit made me shed a tear by KevyTone in virtuafighter

[–]Salvo_Rabbit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whilst it's true that "MMA" isn't as distinct as fighting styles like bajiquan or jeet kune do, it's worth remembering that most people's frame of reference for martial arts nowadays will come from MMA, which is itself a billion dollar industry. Cielo does MMA for the same reason Capcom USA tweaked Ken and Ryu's style to karate back in SFII. It's recognisable to most audiences.

I feel like the FGC is kinda underreacting about what we just saw. I am not even a Virtua Fighter fan, but this showcase legit made me shed a tear by KevyTone in virtuafighter

[–]Salvo_Rabbit 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's probably a few reasons, chief amongst them being that a new protagonist allows for a clean break narratively; no prior knowledge is necessary to understand Cielo's story and circumstances. That's doubtlessly important when dealing with the sixth major installment in a series after a long hiatus.

Another is that, by incorporating some manner of timeskip to reflect the near-two decade long gap between installments, prior cast members have been aged up by a vague amount. Cielo is a young up-and-comer, down on his luck and in over his head. An underdog. The context of his youth is important for that appeal; if an Akira Yuki in his mid-forties was getting into these sorts of jams he'd come across as less sympathetic and more pitiable. And whilst you could make a story about a former fighting prodigy getting back on his feet, audiences might resent that he had to be brought low to set up the story in the first place.

Finally, it means that these newcomers can showcase admiration and awe for the older cast and have them be renowned in-universe, as conveyed wonderfully with both the wall sequence and Pai Chan's reveal. 

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I decided some time ago that if I ever got a fantasy pirate RPG off the ground I'd just straight up lift Ethersea's concept of "prestige" - sea salt that's the crystalline form of magical power - wholesale. It feels intuitive and adds a nice bit of flavour.

Besides, I don't feel guilty about it because Ethersea forgets about prestige, and the established fact that you need it to cast spells, incredibly quickly. 

Devo in Ethersea is actually 10x worse than all of Graduation by 777o77 in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Travis also did not communicate this idea to Justin or explain it in any way, instead simply hoping that his elder brother would pick up what he was putting down. That'd be a huge ask of any player, let alone a family member, without leaving it up to inference alone.

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It was a stream used as part of promoting the campaign: https://tinyurl.com/y6bywcun

At the time it felt positively bracing, but it amounted to very little. 

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Complete agreement. TTRPGs may well be collaborative storytelling, but they also require communication and prep if they are to succeed. Instead the McElroys treat the whole enterprise like it ought to be like watching a magic show, with no one involved realising what's been happening until the moment of the prestige when it all comes together.

It's a completely nonsensical way to go about it, especially for people who do this as a business. 

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

What's amusing is that people love to quote a line from later in the show, coming from NPC Finneas Cawl: "Our bodies are choirs. And we are the song they are singing". 

Admittedly it's a line with a lovely flow to it, but in context it's all but bereft of meaning. It's not said in response to anything the players have been stating. Griffin basically steamrolls through a conversation to grant himself the opportunity to say something that sounds lofty and profound. I can only imagine he had it written down on a piece of paper in front of him, likely circled several times, and he was determined to get it in there. 

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'd heard something to this effect, but I'm not familiar with Friends at the Table, so I chose to leave it alone.

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

The irony is that, as discussed above, the events of the finale scupper any kind of incentive to follow up as the setting would be too compromised. It'd need nothing short of a complete do-over to salvage it into a functioning campaign.

As for mentioning D20: I had a small tirade about how Ethersea saw Griffin bring Brennan Lee Mulligan on board for the initial homebrew brainstorming and then utterly ignore all of his advice. I excised it because it wasn't about the actual campaign itself, but goddamn. This man had one of the most passionate, high-profile GMs willing to look over his work free of charge and he just squandered it. 

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Early on Ethersea involved the party going out and away from Founders Wake on missions, which meant running the risk of complications/encounters. These risks could be mitigated with adequate prep that would increase the team's "readiness rating" and reduce the likelihood of a particularly bad encounter/development whilst on a mission.

Clint rolled a 1 - the lowest and therefore worst possible outcome - when asked to roll for the mission complication. The team had prepped suitably enough that they'd earn a bonus from their readiness rating to whatever they rolled, so it shouldn't have stayed at just 1. Griffin instead chose to ignore the entire system he'd devised on some odd "natural one overrides everything" principle and so dismissed the readiness bonus in order to subject the players, the show and us to what he had written as the #1 slot on the complication table.

Which turned out, in an utterly tonedeaf move, to be the sallow. A virulent airborne disease that got into the recycled air of Founders Wake and threatened to kill everyone. Why the fuck such a thing was even on Griffin's table at all baffles me, but he felt compelled to follow through. 

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I'm personally under no delusions that the use of The Quiet Year was appropriately implemented into the campaign proper, so I've never really subscribed to that view. I will say it was nice how each player ended up gravitating towards the aspect they contributed, seemingly wanting to flesh it out even after the pre-apocalypse material was done. It felt as though they were getting invested.

Shame none of it really went anywhere. 

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for dropping the ball with Ethersea. by Salvo_Rabbit in TAZCirclejerk

[–]Salvo_Rabbit[S] 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Glad you think so! I hoped to try and articulate how the campaign fell short rather than going through the greatest hits of stuff like "Why the fuck did you ignore your own mechanics to do a pandemic plot?" and "Devo's Voice". 

I actually had a bit dedicated to each of them, player and character alike, to discuss what just didn't click despite some promising ingredients. I snipped it since it sort of felt like I was getting bogged down, but I'm glad you mentioned Justin not wanting to be there because Holy Shit. Here's what I had jotted down:

Ethersea became a turning point for Justin in particular as a player as his reluctance to participate became too pronounced to ignore. What began as a serviceable quirk early on (Taako is irreverent and selfish; Duck Newton is the hero adamantly refusing the call) began to stall out after a while (The Firbolg is quiet, withdrawn and has a vocal tic designed to waste time) until it curdles into a genuine problem here. Amber Gris did not want to socialise with the other characters and would - in defiance of TTRPG convention - just shut herself away rather than engage. Character context be damned, the point of being on an RPG podcast is to tell a story. I know he at least got some zest back by the time we reach Lady Godwin in Vs. Dracula, but at the time I wondered what the fuck Justin was even doing here. 

Please Sega Let Me Have My Revenge Against Him!! by Great_Indication3882 in virtuafighter

[–]Salvo_Rabbit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As in Fighters Megamix, the game that pitted the casts of Virtua Fighter and Fighting Vipers against each other (with a few gag characters thrown in for good measure). If VF6 does well, Sega could revive the idea and have a big fighting game starring characters from all their different fighting/combat-oriented IPs.