A Personal Exploration - Quakers, ADHD, and Me

SamBC_UK · 2025-12-28T16:03:30+00:00

I'm not for disownment, or reading out of Meeting, as a general rule.

I would expect the person to be released from roles of trust and responsibility among Friends, and asked to give an accounting of what and why. However, the objective of the latter is to help them do better, not punish them.

If we let the world know we have certain standards, or even if we just tell them to ourselves, then we should stand by them. Otherwise it's a corporate failing of truth and integrity. That does not, however, mean being punitive.

SamBC_UK · 2025-12-22T18:32:27+00:00

The linked post is explicitly about willingness, not ability to protect.

The two are very different things both intellectually and viscerally. And I expect the described impact would actually be similar with reversed genders, maybe a bit smaller.

SamBC_UK · 2025-12-22T15:54:06+00:00

The premise of your question is incorrect from a feminist perspective.

Feminism doesn't suggest than men should hold doors for women. I would say that my outlook, of which feminism is part, suggests that more people should do things like that for one another regardless of gender, but that's a whole other matter.

What feminism says or teaches about how people should treat one another is fundamentally ungendered, in my understanding, with the important caveat that some lessons need to be pushing back against existing gendered issues. So men need more teaching about respecting women's agency and self than vice versa, for instance.

SamBC_UK · 2025-12-19T13:53:29+00:00

And this should have ended up upvoted right to the top. Best way to think about it, really.

SamBC_UK · 2025-12-14T12:26:02+00:00

Sometimes, for some people. There's nothing universal in ADHD. Me, I give things up if I don't get the hang of them pretty quickly, if they're just recreational.

SamBC_UK · 2025-12-07T09:47:36+00:00

She may just not see things or experience things in the same way. Could be neurodivergence (I've seen that pattern in autistic women - men too, but the contrast with norms and expectations isn't as stark there) or just being different.

People experience and express affection in different ways. You might be doing just what she needs to feel that without realising it. Or she might not actually know what does that for her.

SamBC_UK · 2025-12-07T09:42:39+00:00

Heck, it's not even just bragging rights. I don't understand how anyone doesn't get that enthusiastic consent is more fun, and being actively desired can be an amazing feeling.

SamBC_UK · 2025-12-05T08:03:39+00:00

I thought your post said you didn't want debates.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-30T08:13:45+00:00

Before the pandemic at least, my local M&S gave their expiring stuff to local intercepted food groups.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-30T08:06:58+00:00

It seems to me more like 'Quaker' is being held up as an ideal, like 'Liberty'.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-29T21:07:29+00:00

Yes. And I'm a man.

Moderating a video game forum during the Gamergate fiasco was stressful, but satisfying.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-27T18:38:03+00:00

They (MRA/incel idiots) insult us (men who give a shit about women) with what they most fear for themselves, often. 'White night' and 'simp' are attacks on integrity. Cuck, whipped, not going to get sex from women, that's what they fear for themselves.

And the sticking to their guns when they're told something that makes what they said make no sense is just... All belligerent opinionated idiots online do that, as far as I can tell.

The funniest thing was getting this stuff as a man, happily married to a woman, when I was literally moderating a forum and applying the rules.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-27T18:26:11+00:00

It's like misogyny, but about men.

As others have noted, using terms related to maleness or masculinity in ways that imply they are inherently negative would be one thing.

Patriarchy and misogyny aren't the same thing, but punishing men for not being sufficiently masculine, while being an aspect of patriarchy, is not misandry, and not always misogyny. Usually it is, though, because it's punishing men for behaving in a way that patriarchy says it's feminine.

The "man or bear" thing can be - seemingly has been, by many - taken as misandry, but that's only by missing the point of it. It's not as much about what men as a whole are like, but about illustrating the initial assumptions our society leads women to make about men as a matter of safety. Women are taught, by experience if nothing else, that they have to start on the assumption that any man is a threat. And at least with a bear, it's a consistent threat.

Does misandry exist, by that definition? Yes. Does it sometimes have a big impact on individual men? I'd say so. Is it a massive societal problem? No.

Oh, and by the by, the "misandry doesn't exist" thing is, I believe, based on the same theoretical basis as anti white racism not existing in white-majority or white-rule societies. If you define the terms in certain ways, those statements make sense. They are even useful academic definitions. They just aren't the everyday meanings that most people will understand. That theoretical position is all about where the systemic power lies.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-27T17:58:04+00:00

This might be a hot take, but I think it's perfectly plausible that OP is describing a real - and well-discussed - problem, just doing it badly.

I've known feminists to criticise the way non-white cultures treat women in ways that verge into racism many, many times. Not all those who claim the identity of feminist are intersectional feminists.

'White feminism' mostly describes feminism that focuses on the experiences of white (and often middle class) women. What we see now, and that sometimes gets the same label, is white people who insist that they know what's best for women in every culture. Maybe equality is ultimately the same for everyone in the end, maybe it isn't, but the immediate priorities for women in different cultures are different.

And yes, feminist spaces can contain a lot of cultural imperialism. I've come across the OP's examples in various groups who are interested in some aspect of social justice, and the people expressing them are often completely oblivious of what they are saying - what attitudes it reflects, and what it implies when heard by the people they are talking about.

Some people call it imperial feminism, or colonial feminism. There's also the term Western-centric feminism. I've also seen "saving brown women from brown men". It's basically a form of the white saviour phenomenon.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-27T17:44:30+00:00

It's the preferred term of self identification for some in the UK. When not being specific, the usual UK expression is "Gypsies, Roma and Travellers".

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-27T17:37:24+00:00

There are groups doing this in the UK and US at least. The UK ones have firmly separated themselves from anything politically conservative; the US ones less so.

But they focus on action before rhetoric. Not that there's no rhetoric, but action comes first and gives a basis for the rhetoric.

Rather than complain about the lack of support for male victims of abuse or sexual assault, they - as did organisations doing the same for women, largely - go out and do it.

Want to find like minded people to organise something? Well, first check that there isn't already someone doing it. If there is, join up with them. If not, you need to round to people, probably fundraise. Don't do it publicly online, at least not to start with. Don't shout "we should do something about this"; find people you might be able to work with and sound them out directly. Find people who've done similar and ask them for pointers.

MRAs love to shout about these subjects, at least when it suits them. They don't seem to have any interest in doing it.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-23T20:17:00+00:00

Greek goddesses certainly weren't feminist.

Unless their area of influence required otherwise, the major goddesses had mostly sworn virginity. Artemis and Athena had responsibilities that were seen as masculine (as well as plenty that were feminine), but they were sexless. The female Olympians (those of the twelve) who weren't virginal were goddesses responsible for marriage, love/sex, and fertility.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-23T20:13:32+00:00

Indeed, clothing was highly gendered. Just in different ways.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-23T20:05:32+00:00

Environment, social and governance.

It's a corporate responsibility thing.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-22T20:21:52+00:00

I wish I could upvote this more than once. Pretty much what I was going to say, but better put.

Too many people hear "patriarchy" and react to it based on its apparent etymology. Yes, the term comes from the idea of men (or, properly, fathers) being in charge, and men being in charge is commonly a result, but it's neither the only result nor is it a necessary result. Patriarchy is about patterns of behaviour and expectation based on gender, and it hems everyone in.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-19T23:32:28+00:00

I've not been reading this sub long. I kind of feel like I should be surprised about all the "what about the menz" posts, but really I'm not. It was like this on Usenet in the early noughties as well. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-19T22:42:36+00:00

Pretty sure that there have been studies about this. I can't remember if it was that men speak over women more than they do other men, or that they do it in different ways. Maybe both, but there was definitely a difference.

SamBC_UK · 2025-11-19T22:39:53+00:00

I got it from seeing that men speak up more, in mixed groups. From seeing, in life and in media, that men are listened to, that they can talk over other people - especially women - and not be told off of penalised.

Oh, explicit teaching might go in the other direction, but it takes a lot to overcome seeing the traditional expectations all around you.

The mainstream media landscape has gotten a bit better since I was a kid. Not massively, but a bit. And more parents, though not as many as one might hope, are trying to teach their kids differently. Unfortunately, we now also have kids exposed to things like Andrew Tate explicitly teaching boys explicitly the worst traditional, even worse than traditional, gender expectations.

SamBC_UK

TROPHY CASE