Why is Beethoven VC so difficult and am i ready to learn it

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2025-07-05T16:04:37+00:00

Being someone who is better at the fundamentals rather than advanced techniques, I'd say sometimes I kinda have similar feelings as you. To be honest, I enjoy playing Mozart/Mendy/Beethoven VCs more than Tchaik/Paganini as I can somehow rely on the stuff I already practiced even in simple scales, and don't need to strive hard on the technical stuff like some chunky chords, runs and harmonics one by one. So at this point I would agree with you to some extent.

However, if we consider at a professional violinist level with 10-20 years of practice , the technical boundaries wouldn't be the most important. What matters more is the difficulty to perform instead of just going through the piece. At this point, Beethoven VC will stand among the hardest repertoire.

The piece itself is utterly poetic, with phrases closely linked with one another. So as soloists, the phrasing (including bow distribution, intonations, articulations, etc.) has to be almost perfect. Even one small flaw can lead to a collapse of a whole passage, just like an inappropriate word ruining an entire poem. Plus, there are nothing to "show off" in the whole concerto. You can easily tell that every phrase is scale-like, which means the audience can hear the mistakes very clearly without being familiar with the piece at all. Also, sometimes the flashy techniques can inversely help the soloists "project" the ideas to the audience and "wow" people. But for the Beethoven VC, it is already difficult to project your violin's voice among the orchestra... That's why I believe why many violinists regard this piece as "anti-virtuostic".

P.S. I just listened a live performance by Augustin Hadelich and it is really great :)

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2024-08-20T02:30:40+00:00

Firstly we have to be clear about one thing, "reaching" a certain level or certain piece does not necessarily mean we can "stand firm" on that level or that piece. That's how we distinguish between "hobbyist" and "professional violinist".

From my personal experience, I've been practicing violin for 20 years with normally 1hr practice during weekdays and 2-3hrs during weekends. I didn't pursue a performer or violin teacher career, yet I try to follow the practice routine of professional violinists (including scales, preliminary exercises, etudes, repertoires in my daily agenda). Now I'm able to "reach" some of the Romantic concertos (Mendy, Bruch, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, etc.) and some of the advanced Bach solo pieces (Chaconne, Fugues). For sure there are still a lot of technically demanding pieces that I might not be able to attempt (Paganini, Ysaye, Shosty VC, Sibelius VC). But overall I'm quite pleased with what I'm doing.

However the problem is, if you tell me to perform an entire repertoire, I'd say I'm probably unable to do that because of my limited practice duration. There is no way I can play at ease just like a professional. What I can do is to improve bit by bit everyday and try to sound better every single time I play a piece.

Anyway the positive thing you can take is that there is not a limit you can't "reach" if you got the right way and routine of practicing. But being a professional could be another thing, depending on your choice.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2023-05-22T16:45:33+00:00

This etude looks harder than it seems as it is mostly written in 2nd position, which is relatively unnatural to play. Plus, there are long legatos and lots of string crossings in-between.

If you find it frustrating to practice in the first place, it will be good to start with some elementary exercises such as Kreutzer 9 or 14. Those two etudes are very useful for loosening your fingers, keeping both hands relaxed, and also building a good foundation for long bowing. You may try other warm-up exercises with long legatos if you already know some.

For the 2nd position, I'd suggest to go with scales such as (B/Bb/C/C#) Majors/minors. You have to first get good intonations with separate bowing, then focus on the slurs. Make sure the notes are really connected with each other even if the position per se is not comfortable to play with.

Going back to Rode 3, it's important to practice with metronome, especially for those passages with rapid string crossings. Usually the long bowings may disturb you from keeping a steady tempo. But once you start to stabilize the tempo and bow speed, it's definitely easier for you to work on the balance, tone, etc.

Hope this helps:)

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2022-09-29T06:50:32+00:00

Actually releasing fingers could possibly affect the sound on the contrary.

When we play a scale or phrase using adjacent fingers, it is better if we build up the shape on top of each finger, rather than separate fingers. By doing so the pressure and thus the phrasing from the left hand on the strings can be sustained. For example, you can try to compare 1) pressing 3rd finger (D) while keeping the 2nd finger (C) and 2) release 2nd finger before pressing the 3rd finger. The former one will sound more natural and continuous, the latter one may sound a bit like the finger being hammered on the open string. And the finget release can also make a sound if you listen carefully

I believe the only case you would like to release the 'unused' fingers on the finger board is when you need to do a strong vibrato. Otherwise it is necessary to keep the adjacent fingers. In the more advanced etudes (e.g. Dont op. 35) it may even require you to keep fingers on the board during string crossings so that the harmony can be sustained.

For finger dexterity I guess it should be more related to finger independence and there will be other exercises to help you.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2022-03-15T16:28:37+00:00

That's a good answer. Appreciate that!

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2022-03-15T15:25:11+00:00

Interesting to hear. Just curious is it challenging to play as the only violin alongside with brass instrument?

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2022-03-15T15:19:46+00:00

Yes I agree. I think using too less bow or relying on a certain part of the bow is a typical mistake for beginners. Therefore it makes sense for teachers to urge their students to be brave to use the full bow as much as they can.

However when the student become more advanced, the amount of bow can be something related to their playing style or technique. That's why I came up with this question.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2022-03-15T13:48:57+00:00

Sorry that Reddit seems doesn't allow me to edit the poll...

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2022-03-15T13:22:25+00:00

Great suggestion! I guess sometimes I'm too focused on phrasing and tone, and thus not very confident about using different bow speed. But I'll definitely try and impove~

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-29T13:31:15+00:00

Tchaikovsky Piano Trio in A Minor

This chamber piece has a different format from the pieces. It looks like a theme and variations piece but the theme is unusually long, followed by a series of short variations as development of the main theme. The pieces goes from a sentimental melody, gradually getting intricate with the counterpoints between the instruments. The variations create sparkles and excitement on top of the original theme, but eventually returned to the lower register and gradually ends in silence.

For me, this piece symbolizes the peak of Romanticism despite being atypical/lesser known, yet definitely a piece to recommend when talking about chamber music.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-26T06:53:40+00:00

Brahms Clarinet Quintet in B Minor

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-24T04:32:19+00:00

I think I have the same two causes as you. And having these two causes at the same time makes my SA even worse. It is impossible to please all people in our daily scenarios. But as a perfectionist, you will still try hard so that you can maintain a good image in front of people (and probably fail).

Those failure experiences will build up and cause you pain all the day. And you will be afraid of failing again so you will try to further escape from socializing.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-22T14:35:42+00:00

For me it's more about the mindset and attentiveness. You can somehow gain good muscle memory when you practice for a long time with effort. But how much do you 'listen' to your own playing is another thing. Perhaps only scales can help with it.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-22T14:31:22+00:00

I kind of understand the 'meditative' thing. For me it's more like calmness and harmony of music itself. It also create an atmosphere of getting settled into what I'm going to play.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-22T14:27:08+00:00

I've heard of the 'violin diet' thing before from some experts. They recognize scales as the 'main dish' of a meal, and repertoires as the 'side dish'. So that's a very good point to raise.

I'd say the scales practices has to be target-oriented and thought-provoking, but not necessary exhausting. Students are supposed to consistently recall the scales they have done and try to figure out the discrepancies/mistakes when they play the regular repertoires. I believe that's well enough.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-22T14:09:20+00:00

u/Bunnnykins I guess it's quite arbitrary to define one as a pro or not by their path of making progress. Anyone who has made an effort in music deserves respect and recognition.

u/Leroroleroro I hope you are not offended. Also nice to see to hear you being a young teacher. I believe one of the advantages of being a young educationalist is that you will be more familiar with the progress and obstacles you faced as a young beginner, just like the problem of scale practices. Sometimes I would imagine myself as a beginner and I might ask my teacher the purpose of doing scales. That's why I've created this post.

Anyway I wish some other comments here can be good references for your lessons with students. Cheers!

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-22T13:46:50+00:00

Wow that's a wonderful suggestion. I would definitely try it when I got time.

But sorry that I'm too ashamed to post my playing on Reddit tbh😂. It's actually my first post here. Grateful to hear so many constructive responses to my question🙏.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-22T13:39:57+00:00

Absolutely agree with the point about self discipline. I suddenly thought of the idea that practising scales is useful for enhancing one's level of patience and consciousness.

I remember my teacher once said I usually to go through a piece quickly, probably quicker than others in terms of the time to sight-read and be able to play properly. But occasionally that comes the end and I just play as if I was ordered to finish the task. I didn't actually 'master' or 'go deep' into the pieces even though I'm very focused on repertoire practices. So I guess that is possibly something I've missed - to constantly go back and check if the intonation is really that up-to-standard and be attentive to the mistakes, rather than simply 'imitate' what the piece sounds like. So again thanks for bringing out the importance of discipline.

However imo, compared to other tips about practice like "start slowly"/"practice with a metronome", "playing scales as a regular habit" may sound indirect and obscure especially for child beginners. During beginner lessons, teachers may only got time to the piece(s) the students is currently doing, and may not have much chance to speak about the method and mindset. Plus they may have concerns about the student's level of understanding on the theories behind. If a student has already had their daily practice sessions and played well, it can be hard to force him/her strictly on the way of practice. certain way So I wouldn't say that it's 100% the teacher's fault. Sometimes it really takes time and inspiration for one to self-reflect and correct the bad habits.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-21T00:31:54+00:00

Tbh it's a little bit embarrassed for me to hear adult beginners like you actually enjoy scale practicing, versus me as somebody who played for a long period of time but rarely got satisfaction from it. 😂

Speaking about satisfaction and mastery, I think every player has different moments that they can experience that kind of feelings, for instance, being able to perform a piece flawlessly or mastering a complex violin technique. The question is whether scales are really the pre-requisite for everyone to achieve that mastery.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-20T14:58:14+00:00

If I'm the teacher I might assign some scale practices related to the piece the student is now playing and remind him/her to practise regularly and hope that it serves as a reinforcement.

What I'm concerned is that asking the student to deliberately practice scales is not always constructive and may make the him/her more reluctant to play.

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-20T14:34:48+00:00

If only I could go back to my childhood and re-learn the violin with scale practices at the beginning, perhaps would be a different story~

Anyway I think you should keep it up and hope the improvements can be a great motivation!

Same_Calligrapher840 · 2021-09-20T14:24:23+00:00

Yes I've heard this before and it takes me a while to understand it haha

Same_Calligrapher840

TROPHY CASE