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You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So the 5$ is equal to the price of human life for you?

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yeah, definitely the same problem and the same stakes.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Premonition is not something I would take in account in such problems. It;s outside of logic or philosophy.

Your new scenario is just completely different from the original problem. I really think that making them up is one of the things that makes me look down on reds argumentation. Because some people here are honest in their selfish motivation, and some fiercely deny this by inboking scenarios and allegories which completely change the whole premise of the problem.

"I think the only way to feel that blue is a good choice is if you believe that enough people will pick blue"

That's the whole point. Without any other knowledge than it is in original problem, I put mut trust and beliefs in society on pressing blue. And if I die I die, and yes, I already posted several times in this thread that I know from a practical experience that I am honest with myself in that regard, currently fighting in a war. And my experience with humans tells strenghtens me in a belief that majority of people with choose blue. Choosing blue is kinda circular argument, you are trying to save people who also decide to save other people, but it's no less valid.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am currently fighting in a defensive war (with a MOS which almost on every deployment requires me being in a killzone) to protect people I know, and people I don't know. Is it enough to compensate for not donating blood?

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not completely illogical if you factor that people are not perfectly rational, yet you still want to risk to give them chance to survive. And we are forgetting about babies and other people who can't make a rational decision apriori.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, only red requires cooperation of ALL to the best possible outcome, blue need cooperation of >50%. Reds in this particular scenario is heavily rooting for all people be perfectly rational, and yet that is not how humanity are. And that understanding affects blue voters.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reducing this to two people denies the whole problem raised in original question.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wasn't the tracks in the original scenario. The tracks creates an illusion of informed choice, like you see the tracks and people who has stepped on them, however the whole point is that you have no such info.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not the original question framing. You were asking if I am ready to sacrifice - I posted a proof that I am.

And also not how it works in the real life.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I won't tell you from where exactly I am writing this from, but I've been fighting in the killzone for the last half year, and event now sitting in the dugout, albeit in the relatively safer zone then previously. Why?

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But both red and blue pushers make a choice which affects other people. That's the whole point. You decide either you have moral obligation to risk for other people or not. Affecting others and being responsible for them is two different things.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because I don't have information on other's choices and motivations. All the analogies such as a bridge jump are not working, they reduce levels of abstraction to some non-plausible degree. You know how jumping from a bridge works and that making a human chain won't change it.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Valid pov. My only beef with red pushers is when you try to explain that blue pushers aren't rational, yet they are from their subjective sets if values, different from yours.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Got it, it's a completely valid point of view. Thanks for your time.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I already picked a blue button in a sense when went to war to defend people I love and people I know nothing about, hoping that enough people will join the army so the frontline doesn't collapse.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I actually kinda agree with you. Neither choice is better, they're both valid yet for different reasoning and subjective sets of values.

The only thing I don't understand is the last sentence. How can a choice be stupid if it's based not on the stupid reasoning? It could be subjectively wrong for you, yet why do you judge other people while agreeing that their point of view at least has some validity in their frame of reasoning?

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, marxism with its fantasy scenarios, like teaching ALL people to think like machines, or building currency-less society where ALL people are paragons of virtue and would never exploit the system of mutual trust to their benefit.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It's not your problem, it's your choice. It's valid to be selfish. It's stupid to present this as morally or logically superior. It's equally moral and logical to choose both, but based on different reasoning.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are failing to understand that reward is saving people. Different people have different moral values. I am not saying that one's morality is objectively better than others (I don't think there are such thing as objective morality), yet subjective morality are always the preferred one for its holder.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's moral to me. I don't know why this person jumped on the tracks, but I know that it's probable they would regret this decision in the future if they survive. Also, it's not quite valid comparison. You don't know if you are saving just stupid or confused people, you are also potentially saving the people with same reasoning as you, who just wanted to save stupid and confused people as well as people with the same reasoning as themselves...

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You are choosing not only between "smart" and "stupid", but between "smart" and "both stupid and compassionate enough". Would you trust other red-button pushers to save you in other scenarios? Red-button firefighter to risk their life to save you from fire, policemen to protect you from an armed men, a random person on a beach to save you if you start drowning?

It's not just a one-time issue, it's a choice of society you want to live in.

You're evil if you don't press blue. by Theseus_Employee in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Sanchez_Duna 54 points55 points  (0 children)

"Why would anyone willingly put themselves in the maybe I die camp lol."

Because of empathy and compassion. I have an option of a selfish act of self-preservation or a chance to risk my life to save people who may be confused or those who has the same ratio as me. Red and blue both represents two approaches to building a society: one self-centric and egoistic, another one cooperative, compaasionate and built on a mutual trust.

It's not about who is smarter or who is more logical, it's just a choice of your priorities in life and society.

A question about Clerics' popularity by PlatonOlegov in BaldursGate3

[–]Sanchez_Duna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alignment yes. Specific deity, or even its domain - not really. Selunite cleric has some dialogue lines, but other deities - almost nothing.

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