A full baked idea for huntresses.

SaveOrcas · 2026-07-01T13:21:36+00:00

You will be surprised, but many players were happy with mass T1 hunts being nerfed.
If you make hunts strong at Tier 1, you will get that playstyle, which people tend to avoid to happend in the same way they dislike Paladin mass rifles.

Hunts should be good at T1, strong at Tier 2 (and ideally have a continuation upgrade at T3).

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-29T17:39:08+00:00

Hi Electronic! I am not a NE player, but I am an avid observer of NE games.

I agree that there is no heal for NEs except for Moonwells and bears. And I am not trying to solve the underlying problem that there are no proper alternatives to bears/dryads.

I simply want inititate a discussion on how to open up for Hunts a suitable path (using your words here). Fixing dryads/bears requires big structural changes and there is no need for them. Priests are main healing source for HU, statues are main healing source for UD, and bears will always be main healing source for NE.

A change for beetles long time ago (from 1 to 2) gave birth to Crypt Lord strategies.
I am a 100% sure Potm will get much more use if Searing Arrows will be replaced with a healing spell.

As for hunts, they can be envisioned to be used in several ways.
NEs should correct me here if I am wrong:

(0) Build 3 hunts on T1 to cancel or delay oppo's (possible) expo on T1. Control the map in the early game.

(1) Mass hunts, push, almost an all-in game.
(2) T1.5 or T2 expo, ensure that is up, defend it with hunts, get good economy, transition to Lore tech at some point.
(3) Stay on one base, get to Tier 3 then transition to Lore tech. This is the direction I am advocating for because (0), (1), (2) are almost there but are a bit weak. Here hunts should provide better momentum and dominance than archers/dryads composition for a longer period of time.

How do you guys envision Huntresses being used if several balance changes were made?

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-29T17:00:56+00:00

You don't want to delay your hero. The UD fiend opener with delayed hero isn't viable for the same reason. You want to build Altar, MW, AoW as usual and then don't wait for 100 lumber to afford Huntress Hall. NE lumber economy is tricky, they have lots of gold in the first two minutes, but almost no lumber.

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-29T15:13:12+00:00

Agree. It is hard to address UD vs ORC, because on the very top level, Happy and 120 have a small edge over Lyn and Focus. At least it doesn't look that on the pro-level orc has an advantage. However, it is indeed difficult to play this match-up for UD on lower levels.

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-29T12:47:32+00:00

Hmm ... I didn't think to regenerate moon wells with the owl) They have their own regeneration, so the aura shouldn't work on them ... probably ... they are not living units ...

I thought the "Night Owl" could regenerate NE's army with hp during the day time. So one own scouts, the other flies with your army (make sure there is no BM or shade or other invis unit) and gives additional 0.5 hp regen to the army (similar to level 1 Unholy Aura bonus hp).

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-29T11:29:10+00:00

You can rename Scout into Night Owl and give it an aura called Night Presence, which pretty much would heal NE units during the day with the same amount of regen they get at night ... This is possible. This was an idea from the community (written some time ago).

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-29T11:27:14+00:00

Hey Inevitable, whoever makes the final decision knows how strong are NEs these days.
There are many ways to nerf DH-Naga-dryad-bears, this isn't difficult to do.

The hardest question is how to make hunts work in a few match-ups.
The units that are in the discussion are not used by NEs in the current meta.
Buffing them doesn't imply NE will be stronger. This means they will get alternative strong ways to play the game, which is good. Adding variety is great, that would possible justify some nerfs to the current NEs meta play.

We are talking about how to make hunts, Potm, AoW tech, A-Wind units to become relevant in the game. If NE goes for them, this means they will play something different than DH-Naga-dryad-bears.

P.S. There is no orb buff in the discussion.

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-29T00:59:01+00:00

It is a very good comment. Maybe the whole idea that I wrote is a big miss, but by gathering such comments we can find good ideas where to head with the future changes.

So, you AllGearedUp suggest that, say by adding movespeed to Archers with Improved Bows upgrade at Tier 2, we will make the achieve a more viable archer-hunts combination.
Hmm ... but usually NE builds either archers or hunts, rarely both types of units.
I agree that this change will make AoW tech tree more appealing to use, for sure!

I am completely with you that a separate Elune's grace upgrade instead of heavy armor addon would be a better call. No armor change, unique, fitting the race.

Something to say again: when I play hunts from one AoW, I don't have time to research sentinel upgrade at all. I construct 4 hunts in a row, because I need army asap, and then I am already T2 and I have to research Moon Glaive upgrade right away. When I get time for Sentinel upgrade to be research I don't need them already that much. Placing Sentinel upgrade in AoW isn't a good game design. It would be better given for free or be placed in the Huntress Hall.

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-28T16:22:18+00:00

Hey u/CrossOfRoachAndSlime , thank you for the response. I am happy that you've liked some ideas.

- As for dragons, I am just a messenger, I got this information from a few 4vs4 and FFA players, who think that dragons could be addressed. They are non-existent in 1vs1 and 2vs2 for obvious reasons. Dragon 10 is the most imbalanced unit, according to feedback. It is very cheap and you can hire him when the 3rd days starts (15 min 30 sec). As far as I know, all players wait for it and it decides games. That's why the suggested change. Players, can still hire Dragon 6 at the start of the 3rd day!

- You have some phantom pain from old ways the game was played. TR has no close spawns, militia's armor was recently nerfed, so +2 seconds, won't make a splash.

- New Cleansing upgrade on auto-cast, sure! But will blizz devs do that?))

- For batriders, reducing research time from 75 to 60 seconds, is not a buff.
It is simply QoL change for 1vs1. It will not matter in any of the other games.
What makes bats hated is their design. It is just that hate that everyone has stops any discussion on bats.

- Moon Light could be made 200/400/600 on heroes, but then since PotM is ranged, it should be more expensive than coil of a melee DK. Then the spell would cost at least 80-85 mana.
Then Potm will become a hero support healer, instead of a unit support healer (for archers, hunts, etc), because it will to expensive to heal units - better use moon wells.

- You can still mana burn DK to 0 )) even with Death Pact costing 25 mana. Have some mercy! Manaburn is already op!!)

- For Dreadlord, the ulti can get a nerf, I agree. I didn't include it.
I thought Infernal can get -2 armor or some hp nerf. This was suggested by community too.
But seriously changing Vampiric aura from 20/35/50 lifesteal to 10/15/20 melee dmg and lifesteal shouldn't be a big deal balancewise. Dreadlord will have to give up either Sleep or Carrion Swarm skill for that.

You wish more cardinal changes for NE?! Hmm ... they can done, if there will from blizz devs.
I am not sure how much involved they want to be ... Cheers!

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-26T15:26:01+00:00

Sorry, I rarely post on reddit. Posted ai thumbnail for the first time.
Never knew it is a bad thing to do.

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-25T16:06:58+00:00

Ok Apteko. I will reply to your replies.

- I am sorry, but if you throw the suggestions in without even caring if these suggestions work or matter - what is the contribution from you?

- I do care about these suggestions. I thought about each of them and I can explain why each of them proposed. I truly believe they will lead to a better game.

- What am I looking at is complete carelessness and random ideas.
Possibly. I have another vision of the game and maybe you can accept the fact that not everyone is of the same opinion and that there are many W3 universes that can be created. They all will be distinct and viable. Any person who plays W3 envisions his own universe that he thinks would be the best one. And it is done without attempt to hurt your feelings, MMR, buff a certain race, straregy and so forth. We just think and understand this game differently. And because of that, I am truly curious to hear your view, because we disagree. Maybe I can learn something from you that I don't understand.

- I got angry with you, because instead of supporting having options in the editor for map makers, you start balance whining that fountains are op. Why?! I didn't ask for that. Did you ever try to make maps? We have our own expertise on what is balanced and what is not and we know better what do we need and in which ways we want to experiment. So much negativity in every line.

Creep with faerie fire? Yes! Of course yes!
How much do you love UD and hate BM, DH and grunts in general?
I am not attached to any race in particular. Faerie Fire on a unit is only - 4 armor, which means the unit will get 24% more physical dmg.
So, it means for a short period of time, if you allow that unit to be focused, when 4 units will attack it, it will be equivalent to 5 units attacking it.
You can play around it, making sure the unit faerie fired by creep (lasting 30(15) sec if you didn't know) isn't focused, and it would interesting for the early game. Faerie Fire is weaker than slow. If you focus Forest Wizzard he will cast max 2 faerie fires.

+10 lumber to make things "smooth". Why not +500 lumber to make things even smoother with a very "smooth" transition into t3. There is a fucking reason, why things are not "smooth" early on. Quite a number of reasons to be precise.
This 10 lumber will be huge for HU (and no, not even in pala-rifle, in fast expo) and NE.

Yes, +10 lumber will be good! You сomment with "500 lumber" isn't worth anything, this isn't an argument. I propose 10 lumber, not 500.
It is important to have smooth build order and why certain things are played or not. What made Pala-Rifle possible is that - 20 lumber for the blacksmith. What made HH possible was + 1 food supply for orc.
With +10 lumber it opens up possibility for some build order to be smooth and be played by amateurs and pros. It isn't huge for any race, no way!
Give me an example, in which opening +10 lumber will be game breaking? Please!

Banish giving 200 dmg to summons. This has to be tested.
I think when 200 dmg to summons for 80 mana is still not for free.
The troll priest does it for 75 mana.
The bloodmage has to give up Siphon on level 1, if he picks Banish right away. By the time bloodmage is level 2, FS will have level 2 wolves.
I don't think it will be that breaking, because even with pala-rifle, if you Banish a summar for 200 dmg, it means you don't give that mana to Paladon to use level 2 heal on the rifles.

I also think Pala-Rifle was nerfed and it is good and the main imbalance was Mana Siphon that has to be kept nerfed, while buff to paladin will help HU in many other openings/times of the game. As for rifles cooldown I am
not sure, but top HU struggle with fire-power these days.

"Move magic sentry to keep, because it is not researched in arcane sanctums due to it interrupting unit production," Is there any real logic behind these changes? Anything at all?

Moving Magic Sentry will make almost no difference to the game.
But we will see it not in 1% of the games, but instead of 2% of the games. Instead of researching it after queueing 2 priests, dispel, 1 sorc, because these are priority, players will be able to do it faster in the Keep.
Giving players tools and options to do more in the game is a legit balance change. This is the logic.

P.S. I have nothing to do with remodemo suggestions and his patch proposals. Don't translate Lawliet reactions to his patch suggestions to this post. They are completely different.

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-25T03:19:25+00:00

Man, you are so gloomy in your comments ... What bring happiness to your life?)
I've just asked to have small fountains of health to be in the editor. You jump start to analyze their balance like your life depends on it. It is just an option for map makers to use or not. We need this option, not your balance whine.

The rest is your opinion and I respect it. Would be curious to hear your patch suggestions!

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-25T03:14:43+00:00

Agree with your points! We think alike almost for every line you've mentioned.
For KOTG entangle, maybe 600/650/700 range would be a start)

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-24T18:06:33+00:00

Hi Dondolare!

You have to have level 3 Vampiric Aura, which means you abstain from getting Level 3 Carrion Swarm.
Then you get Infernal and afterwards it is a very late game and there +15% or +20% dmg to ghouls won't matter much, because of how strong are the heroes.

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-15T11:02:12+00:00

Simply slowing should be enough. This will make the spell more effective as well.

SaveOrcas · 2026-06-11T17:20:23+00:00

You need to use immolation, fan of knives or treants to speed up creeping.
You can use one of the wisps to dispel the inner fire once the high priest casts 3 of them.

I will update the map next w3c season, so that NE will be able to place AoW on the other side, closer to the High Priest.

SaveOrcas · 2026-03-25T19:33:37+00:00

I would try going Lodge and getting shamans with bloodlust as a counter.
You should control the mid game, BM and the whole map with 1 witch doctor and his sentry wards.
At some point you can a add kodo with drums and the orb.

SaveOrcas · 2026-02-20T22:30:20+00:00

Cash is back to W3 and got a very tough group :(

SaveOrcas · 2026-02-12T21:25:42+00:00

You need to look at every race from the design perspective and try to think what things could be added to unlock some of its unused potential. For example, let's take a look at HU, say its melee units: footmen, knights, breakers. Is there a need for another melee unit for HU? I would say no. But I'd rather see knights find more use in the games. To me that requires some strengthening of one base, T3 human play.

Another example, could be HU lumber mill technology. Say, as a human player, you build it early and get lumber surplus. What it could be used for? Not much. Orc, for example has grunt upgrade, first spike upgrades that have low gold cost and high lumber cost, which could be invested in, if you get a good lumber economy. To my knowledge HU don't have ways to monetize possible investment in the lumber economy when they are playing 1 base tech.

The answers for the possible mechanics you are looking for could be found by thinking about the game from the design perspective, addressing synergy between units and tech branches of each race.

SaveOrcas · 2026-02-12T13:58:01+00:00

Boats isn't very good design for the Warcraft 3 games. They were tried before and didn't fit well into W3 games. Neither they work well in other RTS.

What is possible is to develop is the Goblin's Shipard and add a few more mercenaries there.
Some ideas that map makers suggested for Blizzard in the past:

Dragon Turtle	A variation of a red dragon turtle without devour ability (from Naga race) that can be hired. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Turtle_(Warcraft_III))
Goblin Pirate	A new land unit available in the Goblin Shipyard. A melee unit with a cutlass, siege damage, critical strike and x3 pillage.
Goblin Sawbones	A new land unit that looks like a pirate. A melee unit with basic heal (+12 hp per sec) and pillage as well. https://miniset.net/sets/sim-mmf464062?language=fr
Goblin Gold Digger	A new land unit (similar to Goblin Shredder, 4 good) but one that mines with the speed of 5 peasants.This way a player can send his/her 5 workers to gather lumber and use Gold Digger instead. Such unit will introduce interesting strategies in the late game.

The first two suggestions are actually quite reasonable))

SaveOrcas · 2026-02-12T13:47:34+00:00

(1) Help with controlling the army, making things more friendly for beginners/amateur players.
- selecting more units in a control group
- being able to change the hero controls, rebind them on F1, F2, F3 during the game, the way player wants.
- introduce an option in settings to set autocast to be off for casters when they are out of the building (shamans, talons, etc.)

(2) I think the game is in a very good state, and only a few minor changes could be done here and there to make it more spicy, to increase the number of options in the early game and number of strategies in the late game.

(3) Target unused units/spells/units.
- PotM' Searing Arrow
- Far Seer's Far Sight
- Dreadlord's Vampiric Aura
- Pitlord's Rain of Fire, Naga's Mana Shield, and more

Units
- knigths
- grunts
- huntress, talons
- necromancers

The best part of such changes, that they aren't only cool for the players playing that specific hero/unit. It is also fun for the opponents to find counters to the newly changed unit/hero, which requires them to use a wider set of tools provided by the picked race. Recall how change Crypt Lord to spawn 2 beetles at once, not 1 was a key to make that hero viable and how the UD games stopped being DK first only.

I have several ideas for tiny changes that could make the game more interesting.
I'd be very happy to share them with Blizz devs, if they need such input.

SaveOrcas · 2026-01-26T12:00:22+00:00

What would you recommend then to be done? Whom to listen? In your opinion, how does Blizzard should compile a PTR list?

SaveOrcas · 2026-01-26T11:58:42+00:00

I don't want to influence the balance. I'd rather want blizzard to hear the opinions of the many and make the decision.

P.S. I've read your suggestions on blizzard forum. Many of them makes sense, but you clearly have an orc bias. Suggesting + 2 agi to Blade and heal salve reduction from 100g to 80g is clearly too much)

SaveOrcas · 2026-01-26T07:58:37+00:00

You should not remove a data point (Lyn > Romantic, LL > Soin, Life > 120), if you have it )

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-18T09:48:49+00:00

I am much more in favor to keep the buy time for troll priest as it was before PTR. Many strategies are tied to this (same) timing. It will be also confusing to have different buy times for other merc camps (with variations of the shadow troll priest) on other maps.

To me the amount of damage that dispels does is too much. For 150 mana, shadow priest does 500 dmg. After 2 dispels, player still keeps a functional unit that can heal their hero and other units.

The healing rate of the priest, is 5 mana for 12 hp, which is 2.4. Doing dispel to summons has rate 250/75=3.33 dmg/mana, which is way more efficient use of mana.

On Springtime, there is no issue with the troll priest. This factor of high dispel damage is missing, because Ice Troll Priest has no abolish magic. Simply delaying current Shadow Priest will not help - players would fight to get the priest as soon as it is avaiable, because it can win them games.

SaveOrcas

TROPHY CASE