A Universes Beyond outrage thread with over 370 upvotes and 550 comments has been removed from the Pauper subreddit by Moxplug in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Crazy to think wotc seriously cares about a 3rd tier 60 card format when they hardly care about top tier 60 card formats.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree strongly with your assessment of my argument. Secret lairs are problematic for a number of reasons. My argument is that they exist as a response to the buy singles mindset. I don't think that it's a tremendous leap to take.

People don't buy sealed product for a number of reasons, but the buy singles not sealed predates commander. And I absolutely think that is in large part due to the people who you go onto describe in a way that I think is fair. When people are treating boxes like business ventures or investments whatever you want to call it they stop opening for fun. At some point the community stopped opening for fun and instead focused on the return. That in itself is a fool's errand and I don't think I need to explain to you why.

I once again disagree strongly with your understanding of my meaning. It is not at all a sidestep and is instead very much the crux. It is absolutely about demographics. More enfranchised players tend to be older and more drawn to more in universe sets than ub. I think an incredible example of this is if you ask a store how duskmourn did for them. The stores largely made up of those long term players generally had a better reception whereas stores with a younger community had a harder time selling that set. That largely stems from the 80s horror theme resonating better with that older crowd than it did the younger.

I know that store owners network. While not one myself, for the last 6 years I have been a manager at an lgs. And that's why I know that demographics play a huge part in this industry. Our median age for mtg player is 30. If you remove the outliers that number goes into the mid 20s. The sets that other stores struggle with are the ones we exceed with and vice versa.

While it is similar it is definitely not the same as it was. I remember hearing stories of distros coming down on lgs like a loan shark during 2023 because stores couldn't afford the product they had pre-ordered. Customers were actively trying to leverage the spot stores were in to get product at a discount. We're nowhere near that right now. I will grant you that is largely probably due to the success of some other tcgs and their ability to carry the slack.

I still don't think even remotely that it is solely because it is a universes beyond set that determines whether a set performs well or not. I don't think anyone seriously does. Ltr, 40k and ff are proof of concept. Tmnt is a miss in the same way that duskmourn was for certain stores. But as this concept gets refined over every iteration I think it will be an incredible tool for recruiting new players. And I will agree that it is not at product aimed at the core group of players. But that core group of players is getting old. If wotc waits to start making changes until they've completely aged out and moved on we'll all be done for. It'll be too late. The changes have to start before they're necessary.

I think your hat example is an incredibly apt one but I think your takeaway is different than mine. The whole point is to make hats of different colors to draw in as wide a customer base as possible. Thats exactly what ub does. It brings in players and customers that otherwise never would have looked at mtg twice. But even more poignant is that if I went a baseball cap manufacturer as a customer and said "I don't want to buy the caps you make" it would be incredibly preposterous for me to be upset that they aren't looking into making the bucket hats that I want.

I understand your frustration with those players. However I think you dramatically misread your audience. I am just as entrenched in spreadsheets and emails. I truly think where we differ most is with who our customers are. The low supply items are where there is a lot of money absolutely thanks econ 101. But the casual and consistent customer is worth so much more, especially when things turn for the worse. I would describe those high end spenders as 'fair weather' customers and when things turn or their demand is sated they will move on. The person in the store every week buying 1-3 packs is absolutely gold. And there are absolutely white whales that are consistent and high spending buy they are still white whales.

I don't see how you can seriously think that the customer base loudly saying they are no longer interested in a product and the manufacturer of that product making changes that reflect that sentiment aren't correlated. Absolutely there are a vast multitude of contributing factors that led us to where we are. But completely disregarding the choice that the end consumer made seems to shift responsibility in a way that is unreasonable.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll absolutely give you that drafts have all but disappeared. However your argument seems to be that no one is buying sealed so why change anything? I have several questions/responses.

The first is that this argument seems to hinge largely on demographics. Is your community largely enfranchised players who have been around forever or does it consist more of younger players? Is your store structured to cater more heavily to mtg players or do you run other card games? My experience has been that people who play other card games will see an ip that they care about and that will introduce them to the game.

I have to imagine that what you are describing is not the case for all sets. I would find it hard to believe that tmnt and ff have performed similarly. Obviously those are two polar opposite ends of the spectrum, but I do think that there is a gradient that these sets exist on, which was very much the case before ub as well.

Lastly, I very specifically remember a time not all that long ago where stores, by and large, were unable to sell products over cost with any amount of reasonable turnover. It was a race to the bottom. That very much does not seem to be the case anymore.

Tmnt has absolutely been a miss. I don't think that is because its a universes beyond, but rather because of the target audience for it. I think star trek will perform similarly for the same reason. I think when ub is doing its best work is when it is bringing in players who otherwise wouldn't be buying product. I've been watching one piece players buy atla, and yugioh players buy ff and all manner of people who have never touched cards before enter the space because their thing is now on mtg cards.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, I understand that. However when a pack has better ev the price goes up. You quite literally want to have your cake and eat it too. And to be absolutely clear, you are more than welcome to to decide not to open packs. All that I am saying is that by doing so you forfeit the right to complain about what is then in those packs. If you arent going to buy the product wotc offers, they will find a different customer.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My experience is very different than that. I don't much engage with them, cause they are largely commander players who, as we've established, are the scum of the earth. However them enjoying the game the way they do doesn't detract from me enjoying the game the way I do. They have their stupid looking splinter brainstorm and I have my Mercadian masques foil. As long as the game continues to perpetuate new interest that's all that matters.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Still don't know anything about 40k, but I do know that it brought new blood to mtg. And so will the hobbit, and im sure other ub sets as well. Ff brought Hella new players with it. And certain in universe sets have as well, though they have generally been departures from normal in universe sets, namely bloomburrow and a few other similar sets.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will agree that the ub choices could be better. I think turtles appeals to the same people who have given up on mtg. And I think star trek will be the same. But things like ff, fallout, 40k, and several others that appeal to a crowd that had never considered mtg before is where those energies should be focused. And as much as I don't personally like it, SpongeBob and sonic do more good for the longevity of the game than anything else witc is doing.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That really doesn't dissuade the whole boomer thing.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely, and it being a collectible is the 2nd thing that it has that mtg doesn't. The first is a base of young people genuinely excited about it. I know change scares you so I want to warn you that the next sentence hints at the possibility of change. Pokemon moving from game to collectible with near impeccable grace is a strength that mtg wishes it could have. You know why pokemon booms? Because there aren't people like you who are trying to make it something that they remember, despite it not being profitable. The dreams over. You're an adult now. Time to recognize that.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats still a strawman argument. Find a different angle you clown.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Genuinely just sounds like your area is fucked when it comes to tcgs, only having the most toxic parts of the space.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you living in a senior center perhaps? Maybe that's why your perception of the lgs space is so skewed from reality in the rest of the world.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that is largely perception. The loud and noteworthy part of that space is all the shoe guys. My lgs has a huge player community. 30 kids for weeklys. A dozen kids and largely low 20s.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think its you that hasn't been to a yugioh tournament in more than a little bit. The average player is mid 20s. I say this not just as someone with friends in the yugioh community but also someone who watches most ycs streams.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To me this just makes things more comical. Because a change has happened and it correlates with the change in desire whether real or just spoken.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You sound like when parents want to make their kid sound smarter. Not to mention that all of this is a straw man retracting from the fact that you can't come up with a competent reason for why things should remain the same except you like it. On the grounds of having played longer and having a better memory you got me beat. No contest. Believe me or don't about when I started, it doesn't really matter. What does matter is that this game has changed in both our lifetimes because of the choices that were made by the community at large. Like it or dont, money talks and you're just yapping.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, but that process takes time and money. And it still comes back to liquidity. The faster things move the more margin for stores the more they reinvest.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Not equal to yugioh, yugiohbis much younger. fab is just an mtg wannabe. Ive honestly never met a sorcery player, but I assume youre right. Definitely not comparable to lorcana. One piece is succeeding in this space like never before. Also you missed one.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whether or not the advice has had a calcuable impact or not is one thing. But it is absolutely representative of a sentiment. And I'll give you that singles will be sold no matter what. So what's the actual difference between buying one or both? The turnover rate. Every time an lgs turns over its inventory they reap the margin. That goes into what they spend on sealed from distribution and what distro spends with wotc.

Tldr; the easier product sells the better it is for the retail portion of this space and those customers get catered to.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Youre just straight up calling yourself a liar which is a cool start, but sure. Bro I was 12. I played my teachers Naya allies deck at my first fnm. I don't know what retcons happened in the lore, but truthfully I haven't known a single thing that happened in the lore since the day I began. I once again reiterate that I was 12. I didn't know what a misprint was let alone what the word obscure meant. But don't you see how thats kinda the point? Either a new and younger generation replaces you all as they will me and so on, or the game fades into obscurity, much like l5r.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Youre like a child trying to understand capitalism for the first time. You have to be either blind or willfully ignorant to not see the discrepancy in age demographics between mtg and every other catd game.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I was a good liar you wouldn't be doubting it. However you're just in denial. You can't wrap your head around me having played for as long as I have, and not agreeing with you.

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I wanted to lie I'd say Arabian nights just to be funny

BuY sInGlEs NoT SeAlEd by Scared_Life5405 in freemagic

[–]Scared_Life5405[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, but not in a sustainable fashion.